Society/Culture Virus Villains. The list is growing

[Seeds]

I've been biting my tongue for a while but have to call you out on this one Seeds. I don't think people outside of the education system understand the complexities involved in "true" online teaching. How do you police what happens via video conference? Who bears the onus for child protection if a staff member is in a VC with a student (or multiple students) from their own home? How much actual online teaching is possible at various year levels (for Primary school the answer is very little).

I don't think that some parts of some education unions have covered themselves in glory thus far but you've gone a bit overboard here. They are not "refusing" to teach, they are providing adequate supervision so that students who are learning at home aren't disadvantaged. Could you imagine how many people would decide to send their kids if school was functioning like normal with proper classes for the kids that attend and some workpapers at home for those that don't?

Some of the criticism is warranted, but I don't think people actually understand how much extra work this is creating for (most) teachers. Yes there are some who won't be doing as much as they normally would but that is going to be the case in a lot of organisations at present.

Can you explain how posting some maths and english home work online and forcing parents to teach it (many of which have their own jobs and now are also expected to be part time unpaid teachers) somehow doesnt result in significantly less work for the teacher? The online systems that are being set up (at least in Queensland) are very low tech. Not much effort is involved.

kids should be at school. The prime minister has said this. the chief medical officer has said this. Encouraging kids to go to school so they can learn is a good thing. Why are you claiming its a bad thing?

and why is teaching a kid by video any different in terms of supervision then having a kid do work as homework? Unless you are expecting parents to supervise them.

i think teachers need to take a pay cut with the money saved being given to parents who are now assuming some of their role.

 

[Pessimistic]

i think teachers need to take a pay cut with the money saved being given to parents who are now assuming some of their role.

Could easily be achieved in private schools where parents pay fees.

Can you explain how posting some maths and english home work online and forcing parents to teach it (many of which have their own jobs and now are also expected to be part time unpaid teachers) somehow doesnt result in significantly less work for the teacher? The online systems that are being set up (at least in Queensland) are very low tech. Not much effort is involved.

kids should be at school. The prime minister has said this. the chief medical officer has said this. Encouraging kids to go to school so they can learn is a good thing. Why are you claiming its a bad thing?

and why is teaching a kid by video any different in terms of supervision then having a kid do work as homework? Unless you are expecting parents to supervise them.

I have said that I think the current approach is based on distance education. Any parent can chose distance education normally. given 40% of parents pulled kids from school before easter - are we saying they shouldnt get the choice?

Funny I thought the normal push was for parents and schools to get more choice - almost a market system

But SEEDS, are you saying everyone should just bend to your prescription, or do you think they should have choice?

and scotty and the CMO cmon mate theyve just spat the dummy

 

[Navyblues09]

Have the health workers from Tasmania made the list yet?

 

[Carn The Berries]

Can you explain how posting some maths and english home work online and forcing parents to teach it (many of which have their own jobs and now are also expected to be part time unpaid teachers) somehow doesnt result in significantly less work for the teacher? The online systems that are being set up (at least in Queensland) are very low tech. Not much effort is involved.

kids should be at school. The prime minister has said this. the chief medical officer has said this. Encouraging kids to go to school so they can learn is a good thing. Why are you claiming its a bad thing?

and why is teaching a kid by video any different in terms of supervision then having a kid do work as homework? Unless you are expecting parents to supervise them.

i think teachers need to take a pay cut with the money saved being given to parents who are now assuming some of their role.

I can only speak to the experience that I have seen first hand at my school so I won't comment on what is, or isn't being done in Qld. I certainly wouldn't want to be a teacher dealing with endless enquiries from parents (for exactly the reason you have mentioned, they are now trying to be teachers) as to how a certain topic is meant to be taught. There is also the follow up required to make sure students are actually doing the work and providing whatever support they can to ensure this happens (this is far easier in a face to face environment). At my school the majority of our teaching staff have also been asked to check in with each student in their "home room" group at least twice a day (outside of any actual teaching requirements) to maintain the pastoral connections. All staff are also expected to be available to physically come to school to assist with supervision where required. That in itself has caused a large degree of anxiety (you do make a good point that this is no less than someone working at Woolies).

Like I said, I'm not trying to argue that there are some teachers who are doing less than they otherwise would.

Nowhere have I said that learning is a bad thing, what I was pointing out was that if you have a cohort that is actively being taught face to face by a trained educator they have a significant advantage over those who are studying at home. What is being said by all levels of Government is being spun to suit a lot of different opinions at present. We are doing whatever is practical to ensure social distancing is observed, I defy anyone to tell me how that would be even remotely practical in a fully functioning school environment.

I don't think I could list all the reasons that teaching by video is different in terms of supervision. Once a teacher engages with a student via video it opens up a Pandora's Box in terms of legal responsibilities, as I have already mentioned.

 

[Roylion]

But here you're just not making your case. I've no idea where you're coming from because you just keep making vague sweeping statements, with little to no evidence to support it.

Where are you getting your information from?

That reliable source of information - Facebook.

He really has no idea of what schools / teachers are doing.

 

[matty lloyd the champ]

As a teacher at a low socioeconomic secondary school in Victoria, I can say that the workload has actually increased ten fold compared to when teaching was face to face.

Yesterday, between the hours of 8:30 to 4:30, literally every minute we spent either teaching through a video conferencing call, making phone calls home to parents and students who are either technology illiterate or failed to check into class or collating take home resource packs for students who have no wifi or a device. I'm normally pretty good with working a couple of extra hours till 6:30 but I was completely spent by 4.

The endless phone calls are the most time consuming bits of the day, from calling up students who aren't attending our online video conferences which is pretty much 2/3rds of our classes to having walk students step by step how to create a google account and access Compass (a large bulk of our kids are refugees and can barely read English), I would have spent at least 90 minutes each day doing so.

I know that if alot of teachers had their way, they would come back to school if possible.

 

[Roylion]

As a teacher at a low socioeconomic secondary school in Victoria, I can say that the workload has actually increased ten fold compared to when teaching was face to face.

Absolutely agree.

I was at on-site at 7.30 am checking all my online work for the week was all there, made sense and that parents also had acesss to the tasks that had been sent. At 9 am, some students had arrived and had to be supervised. While supervising I checked that those students could get into their courses online, (some had to be found devices to work on) and helped some students with a couple of tasks they were struggling with.

Then when there was spare time it was answering multitudes of emails from students, parents and teachers at home about issues such as coursework, technology problems, assessments etc. I also taught three and a half hours of senior classes through video-conferencing. For those who had dialed in there were glitches such as calls dropping out, lagging causing poor sound or video which in turn slowed down the amount of work that could be achieved in the time allocated. At one point the entire call dropped out for everyone requiring to dial in again.

After 4 pm, it was back to answering emails and making phone calls. The Department has also mandated that while students who can work at home MUST stay at home, attendance rolls must still be taken. Considerable time was spent going through the either the video call or the online portal records logs to determine who had made contact with the school and were considered 'present'. Phone calls to parents of 'absent' students were then made to ask why students had not attended. Then by about 5 pm it was onto correction of submitted work. About 6.30 pm home for a couple of hours. By 8.30 pm I was back on site for a couple of hours to answer more emails (mainly from senior VCE students), scan work through the photocopier, do more correction and check all my senior classes were ready to go for tomorrow.

I know that if alot of teachers had their way, they would come back to school if possible.

Nothing replaces face to face teaching.

 

[Roylion]

Can you explain how posting some maths and english home work online and forcing parents to teach it (many of which have their own jobs and now are also expected to be part time unpaid teachers) somehow doesnt result in significantly less work for the teacher?

That is not happening.

Parents are NOT expected to teach their children. If they are that is called 'home schooling."

What is happening now is not home schooling. In home schooling, parents design learning for their kids. They map learning activities to the curriculum. They assess that learning. All of that is still done by teachers.

If children are learning off-site at home, following a course of study designed by their teachers, with whom they have regular contact and guidance via a variety of means, and are still assessed by their teachers through a variety of tasks, they are not being "home schooled" by their parents.

 

[Seeds]

That is not happening.

Parents are NOT expected to teach their children. If they are that is called 'home schooling."

What is happening now is not home schooling. In home schooling, parents design learning for their kids. They map learning activities to the curriculum. They assess that learning. All of that is still done by teachers.

If children are learning off-site at home, following a course of study designed by their teachers, with whom they have regular contact and guidance via a variety of means, and are still assessed by their teachers through a variety of tasks, they are not being "home schooled" by their parents.

i spent an hour and half a day helping my kid in her first week home doing her online work. Her teacher didnt help. She just marked the answers. Atleast we assume she did. We got no feedback. I would like to get paid for that work I was doing. The teacher was not available.

 

[Carn The Berries]

i spent an hour and half a day helping my kid in her first week home doing her online work. Her teacher didnt help. She just marked the answers. Atleast we assume she did. We got no feedback. I would like to get paid for that work I was doing. The teacher was not available.

I think you've noted the anomaly of this in your own post. This is the FIRST week that learning from home is being undertaken. There seems to be an underlying assumption in everything that you've written that teachers 100% totally understand what is required of them and how this should all run. I honestly believe that if schools had 12 months to plan for this there would still be teething problems, let alone trying to put together a learning syllabus in 2 or 3 weeks! If the evidence provided by the teachers above isn't enough to indicate that teachers are putting in significant time and effort to ensure continuity of learning for their students then I'm not really sure what else can be done.

Perhaps a well worded letter to either your child's direct teacher or the Principal might be able to address some of the concerns you have? On the evidence presented here it seems like your situation is the exception rather than the rule.

Having said all that, I want to add another villain to the list. The IEU who are taking schools to Fair Work for standing down their staff. As a Finance Officer at a couple of different schools my experience is that the majority of staff have little to know idea of how a school's finances work. No school takes the decision to stand down staff lightly and for many schools at present (in the independent sector) it is a necessary action to protect not only the ongoing employment of staff, but in some cases the viability of the school itself. Luckily we haven't had to take that step yet but it's something we have considered and I am dreading the thought that we may have to actually go through with it.

 

[Roylion]

i spent an hour and half a day helping my kid in her first week home doing her online work.

So you helped your child with her online work. Were you compelled into doing so?

Her teacher didnt help. She just marked the answers. Atleast we assume she did. We got no feedback....The teacher was not available.

Available for what exactly? Do you expect instant feedback / assessment?

 

[Seeds]

So you helped your child with her online work. Were you compelled into doing so?



Available for what exactly? Do you expect instant feedback / assessment?

Yes. The work was actually addressed to parents with instructions for parents to help teach it. the kid is 5.

 

[romeohwho]

i spent an hour and half a day helping my kid in her first week home doing her online work. Her teacher didnt help. She just marked the answers. Atleast we assume she did. We got no feedback. I would like to get paid for that work I was doing. The teacher was not available.

Oh well, your one anecdotal incident in the first week -that’s convincing.
So they aren’t going to get everything right, every day-it’ll improve. And in the end it might be one term out of their whole school career- big deal. This is not an easy situation but good to be part of the solution, not part of the problem.
Unquestionably, in secondary schools, the workload has significantly increased. The teachers deserve a pay rise, not a pay cut. You are uninformed.

 

[romeohwho]

Sam Newman-does this guy ever stop sooking?

 

[Roylion]

Yes. The work was actually addressed to parents with instructions for parents to help teach it. the kid is 5.

And what are the penalties if you don't "help teach it"? Fines? Suspension of student? Expelled?

The State Government in Victoria has made it very clear that parents are NOT expected to teach their children, while they are at learning online from home.

 

[Evolved1]

I think you've noted the anomaly of this in your own post. This is the FIRST week that learning from home is being undertaken. There seems to be an underlying assumption in everything that you've written that teachers 100% totally understand what is required of them and how this should all run. I honestly believe that if schools had 12 months to plan for this there would still be teething problems, let alone trying to put together a learning syllabus in 2 or 3 weeks! If the evidence provided by the teachers above isn't enough to indicate that teachers are putting in significant time and effort to ensure continuity of learning for their students then I'm not really sure what else can be done.

Perhaps a well worded letter to either your child's direct teacher or the Principal might be able to address some of the concerns you have? On the evidence presented here it seems like your situation is the exception rather than the rule.

Having said all that, I want to add another villain to the list. The IEU who are taking schools to Fair Work for standing down their staff. As a Finance Officer at a couple of different schools my experience is that the majority of staff have little to know idea of how a school's finances work. No school takes the decision to stand down staff lightly and for many schools at present (in the independent sector) it is a necessary action to protect not only the ongoing employment of staff, but in some cases the viability of the school itself. Luckily we haven't had to take that step yet but it's something we have considered and I am dreading the thought that we may have to actually go through with it.

Union representation and the right as an employee to have your case presented before an independent tribunal are reasonable requests.

A little patience with the teething issues, as you note, is probably the best course of action for parents in my opinion. Parents who care about their childs education will have to do a bit more work than usual, but so what? Flexibility in dealing with curveballs is part of the package in parenting.

 

[its free real estate]

Seeds is weighing up whether to teach his daughter to be a sociopath in this thread, so perhaps his thoughts on teaching aren't exactly what anyone should be listening to.

 

[Seeds]

Seeds is weighing up whether to teach his daughter to be a sociopath in this thread, so perhaps his thoughts on teaching aren't exactly what anyone should be listening to.

Another reason for teachers to be teaching our kids rather than force us parents to do it.

 

[Pessimistic]

As a teacher at a low socioeconomic secondary school in Victoria, I can say that the workload has actually increased ten fold compared to when teaching was face to face.

Yesterday, between the hours of 8:30 to 4:30, literally every minute we spent either teaching through a video conferencing call, making phone calls home to parents and students who are either technology illiterate or failed to check into class or collating take home resource packs for students who have no wifi or a device. I'm normally pretty good with working a couple of extra hours till 6:30 but I was completely spent by 4.

The endless phone calls are the most time consuming bits of the day, from calling up students who aren't attending our online video conferences which is pretty much 2/3rds of our classes to having walk students step by step how to create a google account and access Compass (a large bulk of our kids are refugees and can barely read English), I would have spent at least 90 minutes each day doing so.

I know that if alot of teachers had their way, they would come back to school if possible.

exactly like happens in an office from home. Why wouldnt it be

 

[matty lloyd the champ]

exactly like happens in an office from home. Why wouldnt it be

Except we don't make 90 minutes worth of phone calls to parents and students each day.

Except in our spare periods and during recess/lunch breaks, we usually get time to plan and mark assessments and not be caught up with admin bullshit.

I'll admit, if you are half assing your job, online teaching is piss easy but it really isn't if you give two stuffs about your students' learning.

 

[its free real estate]

Another reason for teachers to be teaching our kids rather than force us parents to do it.

Your daughter is two years old.

 

[Seeds]

Your daughter is two years old.

Remember that abstract thing i told you about. There are others like me. My kid wont always be 2. Plus I have a school aged one as well.

 

[Pessimistic]

Except we don't make 90 minutes worth of phone calls to parents and students each day.

Except in our spare periods and during recess/lunch breaks, we usually get time to plan and mark assessments and not be caught up with admin bullshit.

I'll admit, if you are half assing your job, online teaching is piss easy but it really isn't if you give two stuffs about your students' learning.

If you are trying to resolve new problem which is high priority, a lot of time can be wasted getting the right people and getting them up to speed.
Especially if the issue is still undefined and you need several peoples assessment before setting a strategy

It really does happen a lot faster if some of the people are rostered in the same office


I bet the kids who were already distancing were OK. not learning a new communication and new processes at the same time

 

[Roylion]

Another reason for teachers to be teaching our kids rather than force us parents to do it.

How are you being forced? What are the penalties if you don't?

 

[its free real estate]

Remember that abstract thing i told you about. There are others like me. My kid wont always be 2. Plus I have a school aged one as well.

You being a bad parent has nothing to do with teachers.