Moved Thread Voss vs Selwood

[danster168]

Of course team performance influences a players perceived level of talent. Do you think voss would be as regarded whthout 3 flags in that era?? What about hodge?? It absolutely does because it shows the impact a player like selwood can have on a club, which is profound success on and off field

What about Pavlich? he played in an average team for most of his career. Matthew Richardson too. Yet role players like Puopolo have 3 flags next to their name. Pavlich and Richo still go down as superstars of the game. And Puopolo will only ever be regarded as a role player in a good team. So no, premiership success means diddly squat when measuring an individual player.

If you're going to talk about Selwood's impact then you have to talk about Hawkins', Gary Abletts', Scarlett's and every other hall of famer that played on that stacked team. It's an easy out to say it was Selwood. You had 3 gifted father sons that became all time greats as well as some of the best small forwards of the last 50 years in Stevie J and Chapman, not to mention Hawkins, Scarlett and Brownlow medallist in Bartel. But yeah, Selwood carried the team...

Put Selwood at a team like Carlton and he's a cellar dweller just like every superstar that gets drafted to a poor team.

 

[Freddy Swift]

Ever seen your team win 4 flags in 15 years?? I have!!

Hawks supporters would beat that easily and even I’ve seen a period of 5 flags in 13 years

 

[Noidnadroj]

What about Pavlich? he played in an average team for most of his career. Matthew Richardson too. Yet role players like Puopolo have 3 flags next to their name. Pavlich and Richo still go down as superstars of the game. And Puopolo will only ever be regarded as a role player in a good team. So no, premiership success means diddly squat when measuring an individual player.

If you're going to talk about Selwood's impact then you have to talk about Hawkins', Gary Abletts', Scarlett's and every other hall of famer that played on that stacked team. It's an easy out to say it was Selwood. You had 3 gifted father sons that became all time greats as well as some of the best small forwards of the last 50 years in Stevie J and Chapman, not to mention Hawkins, Scarlett and Brownlow medallist in Bartel. But yeah, Selwood carried the team...

Put Selwood at a team like Carlton and he's a cellar dweller just like every superstar that gets drafted to a poor team.

If Selwood was drafted to Carlton he would have changed the culture of that club around in a matter of 2-3 years. Success would soon have followed. It’s what great leaders do.

Cotchin was drafted to a rabble of a club, had 2 seasons of injuries, became captain in 2013 as a 22yo and Richmond made finals in his first year as captain after 12-years out of finals.

Success would have followed Selwood wherever he went… not necessarily multiple flag success, but certainly consistently in finals and in contention. That’s was driving standards and setting the example does - in this era of salary cap, draft, soft cap etc…. a team cannot remain a bottom team for extended periods if they are united and inspired by a great captain.




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[JAKLAUGHING]

Oliver averaged 30 touches a game in 2019 and melbourne finished second last on the ladder. Selwood has only missed finals once in his playing career and been apart of four flags. I know who is the player with a bigger impact.

Last 5 years Duckwood did nothing outstanding in his side...was cooked!
Biggest impact Duckwood had was on bending the AFL tackle rules for free kicks...duck or force the oppo arm up over his shoulder...
Could not move quick enough to retire when the side won another GF...

 

[STPer18]

Last 5 years Duckwood did nothing outstanding in his side...was cooked!
Biggest impact Duckwood had was on bending the AFL tackle rules for free kicks...duck or force the oppo arm up over his shoulder...
Could not move quick enough to retire when the side won another GF...

Still reeling?

 

[danster168]

If Selwood was drafted to Carlton he would have changed the culture of that club around in a matter of 2-3 years. Success would soon have followed. It’s what great leaders do.

Cotchin was drafted to a rabble of a club, had 2 seasons of injuries, became captain in 2013 as a 22yo and Richmond made finals in his first year as captain after 12-years out of finals.

Success would have followed Selwood wherever he went… not necessarily multiple flag success, but certainly consistently in finals and in contention. That’s was driving standards and setting the example does - in this era of salary cap, draft, soft cap etc…. a team cannot remain a bottom team for extended periods if they are united and inspired by a great captain.




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dude, that's ridiculous. So Gary Ablett Junior didn't drive standards at Gold Coast? He played there from 2011-2017. Lets have a look at Gold Coast's ladder positions in those year: 17th, 17th, 14th, 12th, 16th, 15th and 17th. So Gary Ablett, arguably the greatest midfielder of all time took his club from 17th to 17th.LOL. I guess Ablett was terrible at driving standards.

Selwood is the Nathan Jones of Geelong. A goer. The difference is Selwood was drafted into a dynasty team with stars around him.

 

[Lingsface]

Last 5 years Duckwood did nothing outstanding in his side...was cooked!
Biggest impact Duckwood had was on bending the AFL tackle rules for free kicks...duck or force the oppo arm up over his shoulder...
Could not move quick enough to retire when the side won another GF...

Hahaha he was the best player on the ground in the first half of a winning grand final.

He only averaged under 20 disposals or played under 20 games in the shortened season. Was All Australian 2017 and had better numbers and more Brownlow votes 2018.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Hahaha he was the best player on the ground in the first half of a winning grand final.

He only averaged under 20 disposals or played under 20 games in the shortened season. Was All Australian 2017 and had better numbers and more Brownlow votes 2018.

Another great accolade for Selwood, he won a half time Norm Smith Medal.

 

[danster168]

Hahaha he was the best player on the ground in the first half of a winning grand final.

He only averaged under 20 disposals or played under 20 games in the shortened season. Was All Australian 2017 and had better numbers and more Brownlow votes 2018.

lol yeah, his 1 possession 2nd quarter was definitely half time Norm Smith material. Best on to half time? yeah, no. He was maybe top 10.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

lol yeah, his 1 possession 2nd quarter was definitely half time Norm Smith material. Best on to half time? yeah, no. He was maybe top 10.

Oy Danster, don’t dis Selwood’s Half Smith medal.

And whatever you do please don’t mention the great Cats 16 year dynasty team’s 0-5 record in finals record v Richmond and Melbourne combined, average losing margin 9 goals. They get very upset.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

I'm beginning to think people only remember the last 3 years of Selwood's career.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Emotional you say- as opposed to booooorrrrrriiiinnnnnngggggggg rinse and repeat same irrelevant s**t every post. Very satisfied- not many get to see a three peat, as you would
Know. This conversation is over, got stuff to do today so need to stay awake and your inevitable incoming post about some sort of perceived jealousy puts that at risk.

On champ, appreciate all your sentiments. Enjoy all that stuff you Have to do today

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I'm beginning to think people only remember the last 3 years of Selwood's career.

Oh boy does selwood bring out the hatred in oppo fans. He is the poster boy of an unprecidented AFL era that fans cannot stand. He has riled alot more than i thought from seeing this thread.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

What about Pavlich? he played in an average team for most of his career. Matthew Richardson too. Yet role players like Puopolo have 3 flags next to their name. Pavlich and Richo still go down as superstars of the game. And Puopolo will only ever be regarded as a role player in a good team. So no, premiership success means diddly squat when measuring an individual player.

If you're going to talk about Selwood's impact then you have to talk about Hawkins', Gary Abletts', Scarlett's and every other hall of famer that played on that stacked team. It's an easy out to say it was Selwood. You had 3 gifted father sons that became all time greats as well as some of the best small forwards of the last 50 years in Stevie J and Chapman, not to mention Hawkins, Scarlett and Brownlow medallist in Bartel. But yeah, Selwood carried the team...

Put Selwood at a team like Carlton and he's a cellar dweller just like every superstar that gets drafted to a poor team.

Last 5 years Duckwood did nothing outstanding in his side...was cooked!
Biggest impact Duckwood had was on bending the AFL tackle rules for free kicks...duck or force the oppo arm up over his shoulder...
Could not move quick enough to retire when the side won another GF...

Since selwood has arrived, geelong has been an unstoppad juggernaut with 4 premierships, 6 grand final appearances, 13 prelim finals or greater. 15 finals appearances.. and a win loss record of greater than 70%.

There is hardly a player including Voss who can claim they have been as influential on and off the field as selwood. His career and the clubs proceeding success speaks for itself.

Of cause players can be good in average sides, but they would always be regarded even higher in multiple premiership teams. Do you not think pavlich would be regarded even higher had he won 3 flags??

Selwood is much more influential than Clayton Oliver. Selwood has never been leader of a midfield that finished second last like Oliver was. And has 3 more premierships than Oliver.

 

[Lingsface]

Another great accolade for Selwood, he won a half time Norm Smith Medal.

Yeah he also came runner up in the Brownlow and top 4 in the Brownlow. Won 2 best and fairest a and had 4 all Australians, the best winning record and captained the most wins as well.

That is since our previous premiership.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

I'm beginning to think people only remember the last 3 years of Selwood's career.

Only remember ...poor old Duckwood looking at and asking the Umpire for his free kick...over and over and over again...

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Since selwood has arrived, geelong has been an unstoppad juggernaut with 4 premierships, 6 grand final appearances, 13 prelim finals or greater. 15 finals appearances.. and a win loss record of greater than 70%.

There is hardly a player including Voss who can claim they have been as influential on and off the field as selwood. His career and the clubs proceeding success speaks for itself.

Of cause players can be good in average sides, but they would always be regarded even higher in multiple premiership teams. Do you not think pavlich would be regarded even higher had he won 3 flags??

Selwood is much more influential than Clayton Oliver. Selwood has never been leader of a midfield that finished second last like Oliver was. And has 3 more premierships than Oliver.

Unstoppable juggernaut was only stopped 12 times in 16 years.

I couldn’t justify reading on sorry GC26, what did the rest say?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Yeah he also came runner up in the Brownlow and top 4 in the Brownlow. Won 2 best and fairest a and had 4 all Australians, the best winning record and captained the most wins as well.

That is since our previous premiership.

Come on Ling. Geelong players get handed an AA guernsey on the night they are drafted. It is like playing cricket for NSW, you get an automatic Australian cap on debut. Means nothing.

 

[Trav 20]

Selwood is much more influential than Clayton Oliver. Selwood has never been leader of a midfield that finished second last like Oliver was. And has 3 more premierships than Oliver.

Yet Selwood has never won a B&F in a premiership year.

Nor has he won an AFLCA, let alone 2.

Oliver has done both.

Oliver is still only 25 and just entering his prime. He has plenty of seasons to more than match anything Selwood has done.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Yet Selwood has never won a B&F in a premiership year.

Nor has he won an AFLCA, let alone 2.

Oliver has done both.

Oliver is still only 25 and just entering his prime. He has plenty of seasons to more than match anything Selwood has done.

But you do not understand Trav. Oliver has never played for Geelong…what a messed up supporter base they have become. Used to be almost bearable before social media when you only saw them once a year at the footy. Now, fmd.

 

[Noidnadroj]

dude, that's ridiculous. So Gary Ablett Junior didn't drive standards at Gold Coast? He played there from 2011-2017. Lets have a look at Gold Coast's ladder positions in those year: 17th, 17th, 14th, 12th, 16th, 15th and 17th. So Gary Ablett, arguably the greatest midfielder of all time took his club from 17th to 17th.LOL. I guess Ablett was terrible at driving standards.

Selwood is the Nathan Jones of Geelong. A goer. The difference is Selwood was drafted into a dynasty team with stars around him.

Absolutely correct!! Ablett didn’t drive standards at GC. He didn’t create a good culture. He didn’t lead by example off the field. He didn’t even mingle with the other players. GAJ was an outstanding player at GC… outstanding… but even the most ardent GAJ fan would acknowledge he was not a great captain by any stretch.


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[Young Redleg]

Selwood is much more influential than Clayton Oliver. Selwood has never been leader of a midfield that finished second last like Oliver was. And has 3 more premierships than Oliver.

That argument makes no sense. Oliver was only 22 in 2019 and he barely had any support around him. Viney was constantly playing injured that year and Petracca was yet to become the A-grader he is today. When Selwood was 22, on the other hand, he was surrounded by stars such as Ablett, Chapman and Bartel.

Btw, premierships are such a flawed way of measuring a player's influence. Trent Cotchin has two more premierships than Patrick Dangerfield, so I guess that makes him more influential.

 

[LeakyValve]

The pre-banged up Michael Voss was something to behold. The power and athleticism of the early days Tim Watson and allied with real skill and toughness.
But just cannot understand the hate for such a consistently fine footballer as Selwood.
A less flashy player than Voss, but so very clean when under pressure. A good as Simon Black and the mark of the truly great players.
Selwood was just so consistent as well.
Both were champion on-field leaders.
Voss does probably edge it though as, in his pomp, he could really take a hanger and had a booming kick.
......
TBH, don't really know why I wrote all that.

 

[Lingsface]

Come on Ling. Geelong players get handed an AA guernsey on the night they are drafted. It is like playing cricket for NSW, you get an automatic Australian cap on debut. Means nothing.

Did I mention he was captain 3 times in that period as well?

 

[Tackle Bag]

All due respect to Selwood who has been a fantastic player and leader but Voss wins this one comfortably.

Voss was a top 3 mid in the comp for an extended period of time during his prime, arguably the best. Not sure Selwood has ever been quite at that level.

People forget how skilled and versatile a player Voss was because of his extraordinary hardness around the contest. The guy was one of the all time greats. Selwood is not at that level, and I mean no insult in saying that.