Moved Thread Voss vs Selwood

[Smedts_2]

you mean you got gifted Hawkins, Scarlett and Gary Ablett as Father sons but yeah sure it's Selwood that carried the team. Definitely nothing to do with some of the best small forwards in modern history in Stevie J and Chapman. Nothing to do with them. lol. If Selwood played for Melbourne he would've been Nathan Jones. fact.

Selwood captained the club for NINE YEARS after Chapman left and 7 after Johnson.

Scarlett and Ablett Jr were drafted at value, it’s only Hawkins who was unders at the time.

And that’s in addition to years of missing out on Top 10 draft picks. Selwood captained teams with a large number of sub-AFL standard players on them.

Your “fact” is uninformed fiction.

I’m not supportive of the premise of this thread that Selwood is in the same league as Voss but equally some of the anti Selwood stuff is delusional.

 

[danster168]

Selwood captained the club for NINE YEARS after Chapman left and 7 after Johnson.

Scarlett and Ablett Jr were drafted at value, it’s only Hawkins who was unders at the time.

And that’s in addition to years of missing out on Top 10 draft picks. Selwood captained teams with a large number of sub-AFL standard players on them.

Your “fact” is uninformed fiction.

I’m not supportive of the premise of this thread that Selwood is in the same league as Voss but equally some of the anti Selwood stuff is delusional.

Yeah Selwood captained for a long time. I don't really get the point of it though. I'm sure his leadership was great. No-one is questioning that.

And the way you say 'it's only Hawkins'. It's only a guy who would've gone pick 1 and winded up kicking over 730 goals. no biggie.

hypothetical:the dees get a prime Scarlett, Ablett and Hawkins gifted us by the afl as Geelong did. How good would a backline of May/Scarlett/Lever be. Or Ablett/Oliver/Petracca in the centre square and then have Hawkins as our full forward with Kozzie Pickett at his feet. I'm giving us multiple flags too. I'd more than happily play a few 'sub-AFL standard' players to squeeze us under the cap and accommodate 3 hall of famers. I'll throw in Jed Bews for good measure too.

And before you mention Viney, yes, Viney was our only father-son and we have benefited from and I'd say the dees got the least out of any club in the afl when it comes to father-sons.

 

[Lingsface]

Yeah Selwood captained for a long time. I don't really get the point of it though. I'm sure his leadership was great. No-one is questioning that.

And the way you say 'it's only Hawkins'. lol. yeah, it's only a guy whose kicked who would've gone pick 1 and winded up kicking over 730 goals. no biggie.

hypothetical:the dees get a prime Scarlett, Ablett and Hawkins gifted us by the afl as Geelong did. How good would a backline of May/Scarlett/Lever be. Or Ablett/Oliver/Petracca in the centre square and then have Hawkins as our full forward with Kozzie Pickett at his feet. I'm giving us multiple flags too. I'd more than happily play a few 'sub-AFL standard' players to squeeze us under the cap and accommodate 3 hall of famers.

And before you mention Viney, yes, Viney was our only father-son and we have benefited from and I'd say the dees got the least out of any club in the afl when it comes to father-sons.

You are an absolute sook, your team had 10 draft picks in the top 4 in 10 years. 06-16. Is that not enough of a gift?
Your recruitment team didn’t do well and your club no one wanted to stay at. Watts left Hogan left Scully left Tompous and Morton left before that Sylvia left. We had guys like Selwood where people wanted to play at and for.

Luke Jackson even just left maybe it’s starting again.

You had the same amount of people eligible to be father son because you had the same amount of players between 1970 and 1999 as we did ( roughly when there fathers played. We just got better children…

 

[gocats88]

Selwood was an underrated skilful player. Bursting in getting the ball, then hitting someone inside 50 lace out. Look at his goal assists numbers. For about 5-6 years he was a top 5 player. He’s last goal was 45 metres out and he just kicks a masterful banana, It would of made the most prestige’s physicists blush. He’s just above the likes of hodge and Pendlebury. He has so many match winning games in the early to mid 2010’s. Without Selwood Geelong would be a bottom 8 team. Easily one of the faces of the 2010’s midfield team.

Just he’s sheer will to win the ball is almost unprecedented. He might fall under the category of masochist, that’s how much he wanted the ball. While others fail, there’s Selwood wanting the ball, just as you guys want to escape your marriages and just drink beer, hang out with mates, get high cholesterol and pee standing up, Whilst admiring your cars V8 engine. That’s how much Selwood wanted the Sherrin.

 

[Angus Young]

Both champions. Selwood what a leader.

Voss was just a bull and so good on both sides of his body.

It´s a good question OP.

As far as for players and for impact on a game and in big games I go Voss.

 

[danster168]

You are an absolute sook, your team had 10 draft picks in the top 4 in 10 years. 06-16. Is that not enough of a gift?
Your recruitment team didn’t do well and your club no one wanted to stay at. Watts left Hogan left Scully left Tompous and Morton left before that Sylvia left. We had guys like Selwood where people wanted to play at and for.

Luke Jackson even just left maybe it’s starting again.

You had the same amount of people eligible to be father son because you had the same amount of players between 1970 and 1999 as we did ( roughly when there fathers played. We just got better children…

You should know that one player is never bigger than the club. You are drastically over emphasising his affect on success and drastically under emphasising the stars on the premiership teams that actually won you those flags. I mean look at 2022, Joel was an above average to good midfielder in 2022 that was given tagging duties at times. Geelong would've won without him and they'll probably win next year without him also.

Nonetheless, how is Melbournes high picks a gift if you've got to play a full season of terrible football to get one? That's the price you pay to get the high picks. If you wanted Hawkins, no worries, finish last and earn him.

It's not having a sook, its having a realistic look at what's fair and what isn't. And the AFL agrees with me which is why the changed the father/son rules and basically got rid of the NGA rules.

Also, Watts didn't leave, we were desperate to kick him out. Scully was offered crazy cash. Toumpas and Cale Morton and Sylvia for that matter were also kicked out of the door. You need to do your research. That's equivalent to saying that Darcy Lang left Geelong.

Are you forgetting that Gary Ablett left Geelong in his prime? Brent Moloney too.

Anyway, we'll agree to disagree. Let's stick to Joel Selwood.

 

[danster168]

Selwood was an underrated skilful player. Bursting in getting the ball, then hitting someone inside 50 lace out. Look at his goal assists numbers. For about 5-6 years he was a top 5 player. He’s last goal was 45 metres out and he just kicks a masterful banana, It would of made the most prestige’s physicists blush. He’s just above the likes of hodge and Pendlebury. He has so many match winning games in the early to mid 2010’s. Without Selwood Geelong would be a bottom 8 team. Easily one of the faces of the 2010’s midfield team.

Just he’s sheer will to win the ball is almost unprecedented. He might fall under the category of masochist, that’s how much he wanted the ball. While others fail, there’s Selwood wanting the ball, just as you guys want to escape your marriages and just drink beer, hang out with mates, get high cholesterol and pee standing up, Whilst admiring your cars V8 engine. That’s how much Selwood wanted the Sherrin.

Level with Pendles for me. Well behind Hodge for me. Selwood has never been a top 5 player. Maybe top 10 in his peak.

 

[gocats88]

Level with Pendles for me. Well behind Hodge for me. Selwood has never been a top 5 player. Maybe top 10 in his peak.

2013

 

[Lingsface]

Level with Pendles for me. Well behind Hodge for me. Selwood has never been a top 5 player. Maybe top 10 in his peak.

He definitely was a top 5 player at some point. He finished top in our Brownlow voting 3-4 years in a row 2011-2014 we finished in good positions in all those years and was an all Australian captain a few times in that period as well.

2013 second in the Brownlow to Ablett who had an amazing season for Gold Coast. We finished second on the ladder and he was all Australian captain.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I reckon Pendles is a better player than Selwood but splitting hairs there, both are a rung below Voss and Buckley.

Would take the inside bull over the outside accumulator anyway. Selwood over pendles

 

[geelong_crazy26]

you mean you got gifted Hawkins, Scarlett and Gary Ablett as Father sons but yeah sure it's Selwood that carried the team. Definitely nothing to do with some of the best small forwards in modern history in Stevie J and Chapman. Nothing to do with them. lol. If Selwood played for Melbourne he would've been Nathan Jones. fact.

You mean we got gifted some late second round to fourth round father son value picks we turned into gun players?? I don’t think I ever said selwood was the only good player in the team either, you would have to be incredibly stupid to feel the need to point out we had other good players in a 3 time premiership side. All I am saying is he is a huge impact player who’s influence on field and off field is astronomical. The way he cracks in and wins the footy brings the team with him and has for over a decade. We went through an entire rebuild over a decade with the only constant selwood and Hawkins and only missed finals once. That speaks volumes to how incredible an impact player he is. Oliver can run around getting 30 cheapies in a bottom 2 side, selwood never once let that happen over his career including our rebuilds. His a much bigger impact player

 

[geelong_crazy26]

And if Selwood was drafted elsewhere they still would’ve had that success.

Cool, I assume you think collingwood would have still won the 2010 flag without pendlebury also??

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Level with Pendles for me. Well behind Hodge for me. Selwood has never been a top 5 player. Maybe top 10 in his peak.

Yes he has.

 

[Warhorse]

Voss being massively over-rated here. Was better than Selwood but not by much.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Yeah Selwood captained for a long time. I don't really get the point of it though. I'm sure his leadership was great. No-one is questioning that.

And the way you say 'it's only Hawkins'. It's only a guy who would've gone pick 1 and winded up kicking over 730 goals. no biggie.

hypothetical:the dees get a prime Scarlett, Ablett and Hawkins gifted us by the afl as Geelong did. How good would a backline of May/Scarlett/Lever be. Or Ablett/Oliver/Petracca in the centre square and then have Hawkins as our full forward with Kozzie Pickett at his feet. I'm giving us multiple flags too. I'd more than happily play a few 'sub-AFL standard' players to squeeze us under the cap and accommodate 3 hall of famers. I'll throw in Jed Bews for good measure too.

And before you mention Viney, yes, Viney was our only father-son and we have benefited from and I'd say the dees got the least out of any club in the afl when it comes to father-sons.

You can’t be serious?? Melbourne had high end draft picks raining from the sky for that many years including getting draft picks 1,2 packaged up as compensation, then a bunch of picks 2,3 etc thru the doors.. and your complaining of some advantage another club had getting a bunch of second-fourth round value father sons in the door?? For Melbourne to not win a flag after such massive draft assistance would have been nothing short of an embarrassment

 

[danster168]

You mean we got gifted some late second round to fourth round father son value picks we turned into gun players?? I don’t think I ever said selwood was the only good player in the team either, you would have to be incredibly stupid to feel the need to point out we had other good players in a 3 time premiership side. All I am saying is he is a huge impact player who’s influence on field and off field is astronomical. The way he cracks in and wins the footy brings the team with him and has for over a decade. We went through an entire rebuild over a decade with the only constant selwood and Hawkins and only missed finals once. That speaks volumes to how incredible an impact player he is. Oliver can run around getting 30 cheapies in a bottom 2 side, selwood never once let that happen over his career including our rebuilds. His a much bigger impact player

I love how you call them 'cheapies'. Is that why Selwood was tagging Oliver? lol. Oliver is on his way to becoming the best contested player to ever play the game. He's already become the best player in the game (at worst top 3), something Selwood could never do. Did Selwood ever win a coaches award? Nup. Oliver has 2 of them already. You don't those unless your impact on a game is monstrous. I'll back the coaches on this one mate

So you're going to mention the year when we finish 17th, but not mention the years where we were top 4 and he was the BnF winner of a premiership team? Nice balanced approach you have there

 

[danster168]

Voss being massively over-rated here. Was better than Selwood but not by much.

I think the poll speaks for itself. All the neutrals going with Voss. Most of the Geelong votes, if not all, are by one eyed Cats fans. So the poll results are damning. Reflect on those. You might do better with a Selwood vs Pendles poll.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

You can’t be serious?? Melbourne had high end draft picks raining from the sky for that many years including getting draft picks 1,2 packaged up as compensation, then a bunch of picks 2,3 etc thru the doors.. and your complaining of some advantage another club had getting a bunch of second-fourth round value father sons in the door?? For Melbourne to not win a flag after such massive draft assistance would have been nothing short of an embarrassment

Those who say that the 'father/son' rule - "advantaged" Geelong.
Are they saying that the past players of the clubs they support were as sterile as the minds of those who recruited them?

 

[threesixpio]

Oh boy does selwood bring out the hatred in oppo fans. He is the poster boy of an unprecidented AFL era that fans cannot stand. He has riled alot more than i thought from seeing this thread.

I don’t think people hate Hodge as much though so I don’t think you’re being entirely correct with this summation. It was quite annoying watching him win games in clinch moments with the high tackle. I never felt like that with Stevie J or Bartel. In fact I had quite a bit of man love for Bartel.

 

[danster168]

Those who say that the 'father/son' rule - "advantaged" Geelong.
Are they saying that the past players of the clubs they support were as sterile as the minds of those who recruited them?

It's not Geelong's fault that they took advantage of the rules that were available to them. Rules that have since been changed in a large part due to the fact that the AFL recognised it was an unfair advantage. It's no different to the bulldogs having access to Sam Darcy and Ugle-Hagan (NGA rules). They are 2 players that they shouldn't have the rights to. It's a massive asterisk on Geelong's flags as most other clubs didn't get these gifts given to them. Like I said, give me Scarlett, Ablett and Hawkins and melbourne wins 5 flags, probably on the trot

 

[danster168]

I don’t think people hate Hodge as much though so I don’t think you’re being entirely correct with this summation. It was quite annoying watching him win games in clinch moments with the high tackle. I never felt like that with Stevie J or Bartel. In fact I had quite a bit of man love for Bartel.

Exactly. People love players for a reason. Stevie J and Hodge were some of my favourite players. Both tough as nails and especially with hodge, never flinched. There's a reason Selwood wasn't liked. He played for free kicks and took the easy way out of these contests. It wasn't hard, it wasn't clever. It was just a decision that he now has to live with in terms of his legacy that he leaves. I still acknowledge that he was a very good afl footballer.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

It's not Geelong's fault that they took advantage of the rules that were available to them. Rules that have since been changed in a large part due to the fact that the AFL recognised it was an unfair advantage. It's no different to the bulldogs having access to Sam Darcy and Ugle-Hagan (NGA rules). They are 2 players that they shouldn't have the rights to. It's a massive asterisk on Geelong's flags as most other clubs didn't get these gifts given to them. Like I said, give me Scarlett, Ablett and Hawkins and melbourne wins 5 flags, probably on the trot

Let. It. Go.

I had a quick peruse of your posting history in regards to Geelong and my hunch was right.

Another whose future posts I'll be ignoring.

 

[Ginnieboy]

Cool, I assume you think collingwood would have still won the 2010 flag without pendlebury also??

Considering Pendles had the worst game of his life in GF1 we would’ve won the first GF, and we won the second by plenty.

 

[Trav 20]

Just he’s (sic) sheer will to win the ball is almost unprecedented. He might fall under the category of masochist, that’s how much he wanted the ball.

When I was growing up there was a general view that Geelong supporters were the least knowledgeable in the game. Opposition supporters would laugh as Geelong fans feverishly clapped their supporters off even if they'd lost by 10 goals.

It's as though Geelong fans today have zero clue about opposition players. For example, Oliver averages 40% more contested possessions than Selwood. Do you think that means he ''wants the ball'' too ?

 

[danster168]

When I was growing up there was a general view that Geelong supporters were the least knowledgeable in the game. Opposition supporters would laugh as Geelong fans feverishly clapped their supporters off even if they'd lost by 10 goals.

It's as though Geelong fans today have zero clue about opposition players. For example, Oliver averages 40% more contested possessions than Selwood. Do you think that means he ''wants the ball'' too ?

Not to mention 53% more clearances per game and 16% more tackles. Let me repeat those clearance numbers again for you. 53%!!! Basically all the hard man stats, Oliver smashes Selwood in. That's undisputed facts. And that's career averages and Oliver still has 4-5 years of peak left. I'd like to see a Geelong supporter try and defend this massive discrepancy between the 2.