Vossy for Coach!!!

[Belnakor]

I'm pretty clear in my own mind that CC should move on. Its not based on results or ladder position. It based on the way we play football. We're flaky and that's why we get no respect. Every team thinks they can beat us.

After 5 seasons we still have some fundamental flaws that we had in 2003. We still have midfield issues despite a number of assisant coaches. We still have skills issues. We are still slow. We have too many players with talent cycling through but not getting much better -- Medhurst, Polak, Mundy, Murphy, Sandilands. Medhurst was 40+ goal a year forward till Connolly got in his head.

We still appear mentally soft and we rarely hammer teams. Kangaroos in 2003 and Collingwood in 2005 are exceptions. Our percentage has always been pretty ordinary.

The Port Adelaide game where we had them on toast was mental. We seem to get leads and then give them away. We seem to lose more than our fair share of close ones.

After 6 years, we are still talking up how we're so close. Well after 6 years if you are only getting close that's where you're current set up is getting you.

Forget ladder positions and wi/loss records and look at the team and the way it plays. Try and tell me how you don't get deja vu nearly every home game.

I think its time for a fresh voice. My no 1 is Sheedy. If not, then an experienced assistant is the best you'll get. O'Donnell, Longmire, Mark Harvey, maybe Tony Micale. Is Peter German a potential outsider?

Ralphy boy, you are finally talking some sense. Its amazing how many times an opposistion talk about how "soft" fremantle is, and how if they play man on man, they will beat us. Then they come out that week and beat us going man on man. Essendon does it everytime we play them, and Connolly falls for it every time. Its embarssing. Every team in the comp must play us and think "well, we're in with a big shot here" even when playing at Subi.

German i reckon is a better pick than the rest, at least hes got a good WAFL background, shit he had Subi playing well, which is more than guys like Suma can say about their WAFL clubs.

Our lack of being able to hammer teams is a serious problem also. If we get 40 points up we ALWAYS take the foot off the pedal. We took it off in the Port game and got done. We just don't bury teams like we should.

Our depth is none existant.. i thought that the premise of the coach? We have journeymen like Walker still getting a game! the guy is ****ing soft! He has not performed at AFL level this year, yet he keeps getting a game because we have no depth, same as Matty carr same as alot of guys. Connolly has been incharge 5 years we have 4 rising star nominations. Thats pathetic. We still have the same midfield as 2003, it was slow then, its slow now. How could Cuddles not realize this?

Guys like Medhurst, Polak, Mundy have/had huge potential, and we have Cuddles getting into their head and making guys like Polak lose their bottle. Mundy was brilliant when he used to play WAFL, so hard at the ball. Then Cuddles got onto him and now he dogs every contest and wouldn't know a shepherd if you explained it for 2 hours with pictures and a whiteboard. Medders always gave it a red hot go, but Cuddles obviously didn't rate him. Cuddles has too many mates like Matty Carr to pick in the team before guys like Medders.

 

[estibador]

Unbelievable - sounds like the season's over for a lot of people. If that's the case, go away, take a holiday and stop white-anting. You frontrunners will be the first back on the bandwagon when we reach the finals.

Read my lips - it's July not September and we've got a coach.

Most of us aren't whiteants at all and we certainly aren't jumping off the wagon. And I'm sure I speak for the majority when I say I hope CC pulls out another massive winning streak and we give the premiership a real shake.

But the reality is we can't expect to leave ourselves needing a 9 game winning streak every year and expect to pull it off. Most premiership fancies at least set themselves in a decent position in July by winning more than they lose.

We're just looking to the future for what's best for our club and to be honest the evidence has been mounting over the past 5 year that CC isn't the man who can take us all the way. Read Ralph's fantastic post about how we are seen as fragile and mentally soft, and how every club knows they are a chance against us because you can never guarantee we will show up to play. And if CC can't fix that after 6 years maybe we need to start looking for someone who can.

 

[Topdock65]

estibador & Dr Ralph... well said

 

[Kapow!!!]

I tend to agree Doc, we just dont seem to be making the consistent progress in performance. We're still unpredictable week to week.

Alternatives, well not sure we cant take the risk of another inexperienced coach. I would like us to make a serious play for Leigh Matthews - throw him a blank FFC cheque and tell him to name his price for 4yrs. You could double the membership fee and no-one would blink.

Otherwise its gets abit thin - not convinced with Pagan, Sheedy be my next choice or Laidley depending upon how the Roos finish off.

If Matthews comes to Fremantle I'll make no hesitation in throwing away my membership and going off the follow the Caboolture Seniors as my Number 1 team.

 

[estibador]

If Matthews comes to Fremantle I'll make no hesitation in throwing away my membership and going off the follow the Caboolture Seniors as my Number 1 team.

You what?

In the words of everyone's favourite redhead - please explain?

 

[TOA.]

Freo's time is now, an untried coach would be a risk LET ALONE someone who hasnt even been in the coaching system at any level.

Voss will be a good coach oneday but you cant afford to have some bloke finding his way for 2yrs.

 

[Kapow!!!]

You what?

In the words of everyone's favourite redhead - please explain?

I have my reasons for said displeasure of this man and that's all that needs to be said. Well that and I'm sure the world's most predictable clique who for some reason seem to think the players actually like them rather than tolerate them due to club enforced obligations will probably fair dinkum rip through here like a plague of locusts bringing absolutely no football knowledge just what they see onto this board. That's a fate worse than death that I wish on no Freo supporter .

However I will say that I'd rather have effective player welfare and injury management staff at the club - two vital things that are noticeably absent under a Lethal regime.

 

[estibador]

I don't mean to pry (actually yes I do) but:

I have my reasons for said displeasure of this man and that's all that needs to be said.

Personal reasons or football reasons?

However I will say that I'd rather have effective player welfare and injury management staff at the club - two vital things that are noticeably absent under a Lethal regime.

Hopefully we've already got effective player welfare and injury management staff at the club. However I can think of 3 vital things (4 if you go back far enough) that are noticeably present under Lethal's regime that I wouldn't mind getting my hands on.

 

[Kapow!!!]

Personal reasons or football reasons?

Football...however there may be a personal connotation that has affected the football area both directly and indirectly.

Hopefully we've already got effective player welfare and injury management staff at the club. However I can think of 3 vital things (4 if you go back far enough) that are noticeably present under Lethal's regime that I wouldn't mind getting my hands on.

Rather narrow minded looking at the upside and not the consequence - I'm yet to see anybody keep this simple statement in mind when making posts on this board which is actually quite indicative of our current crosswords.

Brisbane had the effective player welfare and injury management staff at the club when Matthews started at the club. Strewth they had the near perfect staff line-up...until recent times. However this is a fact that is constantly glossed over and ignored (especially by those who support the club that only allows [and I quote] 'blind optimism').

However I will make it quite clear that I'd like the Brisbane 2001-2004 game style at our club. I felt this was actually achieved (if not very close and similar) during our run home last year. Knocking the ball forward, backing our midfielders and forwards to get to it, hard at the footy, solid defence and basically just tough footy. I don't know what happened to achieve that. I can only go on what I read through a variety of sources whether CC and Harvs stepped up and brought this to the club or whether (from one paper I read) the players threw out the CC gameplan and adopted their own faster and harder style. Whatever it was that was the style we needed to build on and not adopt our current wishy-washy, backwards play that relies on an over-use of the football.

For this reason I personally would love to see Vossy at our club whether it be at the helm (it's debatable as to whether or not he's ready) or as an assistant or even as a player mentor.

 

[jarman]

I'm pretty clear in my own mind that CC should move on. Its not based on results or ladder position. It based on the way we play football. We're flaky and that's why we get no respect. Every team thinks they can beat us.

After 5 seasons we still have some fundamental flaws that we had in 2003. We still have midfield issues despite a number of assisant coaches. We still have skills issues. We are still slow. We have too many players with talent cycling through but not getting much better -- Medhurst, Polak, Mundy, Murphy, Sandilands. Medhurst was 40+ goal a year forward till Connolly got in his head.

We still appear mentally soft and we rarely hammer teams. Kangaroos in 2003 and Collingwood in 2005 are exceptions. Our percentage has always been pretty ordinary.

The Port Adelaide game where we had them on toast was mental. We seem to get leads and then give them away. We seem to lose more than our fair share of close ones.

After 6 years, we are still talking up how we're so close. Well after 6 years if you are only getting close that's where you're current set up is getting you.

Forget ladder positions and wi/loss records and look at the team and the way it plays. Try and tell me how you don't get deja vu nearly every home game.

I think its time for a fresh voice. My no 1 is Sheedy. If not, then an experienced assistant is the best you'll get. O'Donnell, Longmire, Mark Harvey, maybe Tony Micale. Is Peter German a potential outsider?

Dr RD great post and you are totally correct. The CC way is carp, does not work and we will continue running around like weak headless chooks. CC manages to get into players heads and takes them backwards.

I differ in opinion slightly as I think Pagan is right for this job. The players will respect him and perform.

 

[spitlizard]

If CC does go (my disclaimer ), Vossy appears to be a great choice but he is totally untested. We have done that from day one and it may have cost us dearly. If we try for an experienced coach such as Pagan, Sheeds or even Blighty will be great but getting them will not be easy.

I do like Suma (despite some real hatred of him from many on here) but it's more from a few business acquaintances I have spoken to that claim that he is good. I just don't think except for maybe Blighty, any of the experienced coaches will be available (Pagan is firming however).

Vossy would need to plead an imposing case to impress the board I think!

P.S. I think he really knows his footy though......

 

[Alvin Purple]

Freo's time is now, an untried coach would be a risk LET ALONE someone who hasnt even been in the coaching system at any level.

Voss will be a good coach oneday but you cant afford to have some bloke finding his way for 2yrs.

Agree so its CC for me.
Would we be having this discussion if Farmer and Johnson didn't get rubbed out before the season began? I think not.

 

[FD369]

Most of us aren't whiteants at all and we certainly aren't jumping off the wagon. And I'm sure I speak for the majority when I say I hope CC pulls out another massive winning streak and we give the premiership a real shake.

But the reality is we can't expect to leave ourselves needing a 9 game winning streak every year and expect to pull it off. Most premiership fancies at least set themselves in a decent position in July by winning more than they lose.

We're just looking to the future for what's best for our club and to be honest the evidence has been mounting over the past 5 year that CC isn't the man who can take us all the way. Read Ralph's fantastic post about how we are seen as fragile and mentally soft, and how every club knows they are a chance against us because you can never guarantee we will show up to play. And if CC can't fix that after 6 years maybe we need to start looking for someone who can.

Using that logic Belly,Pav,Hase... jeez half the list, as well as Schwab,Hart et al all need to go. They have had their time, couldn't do it seeya later. You tar one with that brush and the tar just keeps flowing. I cannot believe the number of posters on here filled with negativity HALF way through the season.

 

[Ripper]

Using that logic Belly,Pav,Hase... jeez half the list, as well as Schwab,Hart et al all need to go. They have had their time, couldn't do it seeya later. You tar one with that brush and the tar just keeps flowing. I cannot believe the number of posters on here filled with negativity HALF way through the season.[/quote]


Nor can I, anyone who has competed in any competitive sport knows that it is not over until it is over.

 

[dominguez]

YOu have a very different idea of "pretty good job" than me. Just the other day marked the anniversary of him having coached Carlton for 100 games. 25 of those were 10-goal+ thrashings. That is - every 4 games they got humiliated.

If Connolly goes, a heap of lp[ayers will go too. Bell, McManus, Cook, Hasleby, Carr, M, probably Pavlich.

All gone. Which would be a surprise to some of the whiteants.

What a massive load of shit. Bell, McManus and Matt Carr will all retire if Connolly gets the boot will they, and Hasleby and Pavlich will demand a trade? Is that what you are saying?

Matt Carr is crap and should retire tomorrow but won't. Unfortunately we'll probably have to put up with him next year, although a new coach would be more likely to tell him to retire because Connolly won't even drop him.

McManus would play on if Osama Bin Laden coaches Fremantle next year and offers him a contract.

If Cook is on our list next year I'll be bloody angry, should have been pushed into retirement last year (along with Parker).

Hasleby is a passionate Fremantle boy and will be a one club player. To suggest there is some Riewoldt Thomas relationship between Hase and Connolly is bollocks.

Bell would be more likely to continue on under a premiership coach. He's a smart man Belly, he knows that Connolly's taking us no where.

Carlton have one less win than us, there captain is fat, ginger and slow, their best forward is a headcase, their best midfielder is out for the season with a neck injury, their best defender is an Irishman who has only played the game for a couple of years, they don't have a ruckman and Murphy, in his second season, gets tagged each week. Carlton lost their picks for cheating, and Pagan is paying the price for that.

 

[dominguez]

He would be a mega-risk for a club like us and I can't believe the Board would take that risk.

I agree, Vossy is way down the batting order.


Sheedy
Pagan
Laidley
Harvey
Daniher
Bond
Couple of others
Voss

It would be ridiculous to appoint Michael Voss because he thinks he can coach. I think I'm gonna win powerball on Thursday, doesn't mean that I will.

 

[dominguez]

Carlton won the spoon the year after us.

There are only 10 players left from the 2001 squad that had played a senior game .

P. Bell
M. Carr
T Cook
A. Grover
P Haselby
Justin Longmuir
S McManus
S Parker
M Pavlich
S Thornton (zero senior games)
James Walker

CC list building has been far superior to Pagans.

How many players that were available for Connolly's first game as a senior coach are still playing afl footy?

P. Bell
M. Carr
T Cook
A. Grover
P Haselby
Justin Longmuir
S McManus
S Parker
M Pavlich
S Thornton (zero senior games)
James Walker
Adam McPhee
Troy Simmonds
Graham Polak
Leigh Brown
Trent Croad
Paul Medhurst
Andrew Browne
Jeff Farmer
Luke McPharlin

That's off the top of my head, there are probably more.
Connolly took over a fantastic list, Pagan inherited a rabble.

 

[dominguez]

I really don't think it is a lack of ruthlessness. It is more a lack of an obvious replacement. Or even a plausibly better one, who is actually available.

But surely Gav if Connolly has one finals win at the end of his SIXTH season you say sorry buddy, you're not good enough and move on? If we had been a consistent top 4 side over 3 years then 1 bad year could be excused, but we failed in 2004, we failed in 2005, then had a fantastic 2nd half of 2006. If we fail to win a final this year Connolly's has had one good year in four, that's unacceptable and we need to move on.

 

[dominguez]

Agree so its CC for me.
Would we be having this discussion if Farmer and Johnson didn't get rubbed out before the season began? I think not.

All if's and but's. I doubt we'd be 5-7 if we had retained pick one in 2001 and drafted Judd.

 

[dominguez]

Using that logic Belly,Pav,Hase... jeez half the list, as well as Schwab,Hart et al all need to go.

Now we're talking, time for a revolution! I'd be stoked if Schwab was sacked tomorrow!

 

[dominguez]

I cannot believe the number of posters on here filled with negativity HALF way through the season.

How many times have we had more losses than wins 12 rounds in and won a final? One in ten?

 

[theGav56]

But surely Gav if Connolly has one finals win at the end of his SIXTH season you say sorry buddy, you're not good enough and move on? If we had been a consistent top 4 side over 3 years then 1 bad year could be excused, but we failed in 2004, we failed in 2005, then had a fantastic 2nd half of 2006. If we fail to win a final this year Connolly's has had one good year in four, that's unacceptable and we need to move on.

I am more than happy for us to improve our club by recruiting better people to all the positions. So far it is difficult to see someone who is better than Connolly who is available, or a likely candidate.

I do agree with posters who think an experienced coach would be good for us. By the end of the year we will know if Sheedy or Pagan are actually available, and there is nothing stopping a strong expression of interest passing them by at any time before then. Going from your list of possibles, whether we improve with any of the alternatives after them is questionable at best;

Sheedy
Pagan
Laidley
Harvey
Daniher
Bond
Couple of others
Voss

Laidley and Daniher's credentials are no better than Connolly's and in fact, he stacks up quite well against them. Assistant's, well, who knows. Connolly and Drum were both very highly rated.

 

[BuffaloClub]

This thread is filled with much opinion that is well reasoned and well founded and not without knowledge and thought - if it was round 18 and Freo was out of September with a terrible record. But the depth and detail of the discussion has such finality about it re OUR COACH that the season is really over for a lot of people and that means that reason and knowledge are being wasted meaninglessly or, as me old Dad used to say, "some people have too much to say and talk for the sake of it"!

Read Gary Lyons' article in The Herald SUN re July form not being September form and , while you do, pack up your beanies, roll up your scarves and put them away for next season because, honestly, why bother putting any more spirit into your coach and team for the remaining games because your Freo season is over, your own words say it and you're drinking farewell over the body that's not even a corpse yet!

See you next year.

 

[E Shed]

McManus would play on if Osama Bin Laden coaches Fremantle next year and offers him a contract.

That made my night. And it's probably even true!

 

[dominguez]

I am more than happy for us to improve our club by recruiting better people to all the positions. So far it is difficult to see someone who is better than Connolly who is available, or a likely candidate.

I do agree with posters who think an experienced coach would be good for us. By the end of the year we will know if Sheedy or Pagan are actually available, and there is nothing stopping a strong expression of interest passing them by at any time before then. Going from your list of possibles, whether we improve with any of the alternatives after them is questionable at best;

I understand your point Gav, but if we don't win a final then that is 3 failures in 4 years. If that eventuates then Connolly has to go, and the best available candidate needs to be appointed. I'd rather aim for a premiership and fail than continue down our current path of mediocrity.