Voter ID laws in Australia

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tandino

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1) Aged Care
they have specialist teams who do the voting in aged care homes. its not as simple as everyone rocks up and votes like free range chooks.

2) wrong name crossed
its a manual system, but its actually a pretty solid one. most of the EC workers will use a ruler to underline the name and address, and in most cases its pretty clear because name and addresses dont match. where they do (ie family from one house), they often get you to repeat to make sure you're the right person

Those two issues have been pointed to as the main answers to allegations of supposed fraud. Old timers voting twice, and AEC officials being a bit shaky with the special rulers. I would be surprised if it happens more than a handful of times in each contest.

Getting a postal vote is not just a matter of saying you want a postal vote and viola, it appears in your letter box you know. There are procedures you must go through to verify who you are before you are authorised to receive and lodge a postal vote.

I don't think there's a problem verifying applications for postal votes, more so what happens once those ballots arrive home and away from the eyes of the AEC. And realistically, there's no opportunity for rorting on any meaningful level, but in the context of the discussion probably more of a genuine issue than ID's at polling booths.
 

Ned_Flanders

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Those two issues have been pointed to as the main answers to allegations of supposed fraud. Old timers voting twice, and AEC officials being a bit shaky with the special rulers. I would be surprised if it happens more than a handful of times in each contest.



I don't think there's a problem verifying applications for postal votes, more so what happens once those ballots arrive home and away from the eyes of the AEC. And realistically, there's no opportunity for rorting on any meaningful level, but in the context of the discussion probably more of a genuine issue than ID's at polling booths.

the remote/mobile booth workers receive additional training from the commission to manage these exact issues. remember its just as important (if not more so) to ensure disadvantaged people have fair and equal access to a ballot.


on the second, only victoria i believe proactively sends over 70's a postal ballot, everyone else has to apply. also even if someone steals it from the letterbox, they need to steal their ID with it as well

we have extremely low levels of voter fraud in australia, primarily because we have a non partisan system and compulsory voting
 

Ice-Wolf

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Those two issues have been pointed to as the main answers to allegations of supposed fraud. Old timers voting twice, and AEC officials being a bit shaky with the special rulers. I would be surprised if it happens more than a handful of times in each contest.
Only happened 19 times in the entire last election.
 

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tandino

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Only happened 19 times in the entire last election.

the remote/mobile booth workers receive additional training from the commission to manage these exact issues. remember its just as important (if not more so) to ensure disadvantaged people have fair and equal access to a ballot.

Its not a problem of AEC officials at all.

Let's put some numbers around this.


So there were 18,343 in 2016 that had their names marked off more than once, of which 51 people had it three times, 4 four times, 2 five times and 2 eleven times. That's 122 per electorate.

We can assume that the vast majority of those two-timers were people marked off twice as a clerical error, some probably voted twice intentionally and some inadvertently.

So its not really about fraud because we are probably talking about less than 50 people doing it intentionally and ID's can't fix this anyway. But how high does it get before it starts posing a problem in close run contests?

on the second, only victoria i believe proactively sends over 70's a postal ballot, everyone else has to apply. also even if someone steals it from the letterbox, they need to steal their ID with it as well

we have extremely low levels of voter fraud in australia, primarily because we have a non partisan system and compulsory voting
I'm more thinking of the couple or family who has one person votes for the lot of them because the others couldn't give a toss. It's not something that can be controlled, probably pretty uncommon, probably unfixable, probably not really a meaningful problem, but more common than the ~50 or so in person intentional multiple voters.
 

Ned_Flanders

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Its not a problem of AEC officials at all.

Let's put some numbers around this.


So there were 18,343 in 2016 that had their names marked off more than once, of which 51 people had it three times, 4 four times, 2 five times and 2 eleven times. That's 122 per electorate.

We can assume that the vast majority of those two-timers were people marked off twice as a clerical error, some probably voted twice intentionally and some inadvertently.

So its not really about fraud because we are probably talking about less than 50 people doing it intentionally and ID's can't fix this anyway. But how high does it get before it starts posing a problem in close run contests?


I'm more thinking of the couple or family who has one person votes for the lot of them because the others couldn't give a toss. It's not something that can be controlled, probably pretty uncommon, probably unfixable, probably not really a meaningful problem, but more common than the ~50 or so in person intentional multiple voters.

on voting multiple times, there is an easy check (and this is done) and its the number of ballots. the key is we are not receiving more ballots than we should


on the last, whats to stop this happening now? dad gives the family a card on how to vote and they all follow it. FFS I helped my wife when she voted the first time
 

Rotayjay

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On that note, how-to-vote cards should be banned. They serve no useful purpose for democracy, only stupid horse-trading behind closed doors between political parties. If people want to mark you as their first preference, they'll do so and leave the rest of their preferences alone.
 

Northalives

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Those two issues have been pointed to as the main answers to allegations of supposed fraud. Old timers voting twice, and AEC officials being a bit shaky with the special rulers. I would be surprised if it happens more than a handful of times in each contest.



I don't think there's a problem verifying applications for postal votes, more so what happens once those ballots arrive home and away from the eyes of the AEC. And realistically, there's no opportunity for rorting on any meaningful level, but in the context of the discussion probably more of a genuine issue than ID's at polling booths.
Fair enough. I help elderly people with their postal voting and I can see how an unscrupulous person could rig that, however, if you were hellbent on really influencing the result, you'd need to have a semi-trailer load of people to scam their vote.

With polling booths, many, many aboriginals and many, many older women and men do not have any form of photographic ID but again, it would take a co-ordinated "excursion", so to speak, of people taken 'round by bus to many polling areas to have a significant effect on an outcome.

This issue is just another tactic by the Trumpian element within the Federal Liberal Party as a diversion and an attempt to wedge the ALP.
 

Northalives

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i know you're funning it, but for the trumpians

AEC/VEC/etc are a combination of public servants and people on short term contracts - they are not political appointees like in the USA

all parties are able to have scrutineers in the rooms to monitor counting, and the reality is when the party people are not present its due to the party not making someone available

the rules in counting rooms are very strict - people are removed if even minor breaches occur
Spot on Ned. :thumbsu:
 

Northalives

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2) wrong name crossed
its a manual system, but its actually a pretty solid one. most of the EC workers will use a ruler to underline the name and address, and in most cases its pretty clear because name and addresses dont match. where they do (ie family from one house), they often get you to repeat to make sure you're the right person
And that is what makes our voting system at polling booths so good: it is a manual system and that is why Turnbull's suggestion in 2016, supported by the preening drover's dog Shorten of electronic voting is just too horrific to contemplate. The possibilities of manipulation of such a system is staggering.

No matter where you live in this country, no matter if you are working on an oil rig out in Bass straight or in a one camel town hundreds of miles for another one camel town with a population of 2, the State is compelled to make it possible for you to vote.

I'll take our system over any other system on earth regardless of whether or not I like the outcomes. It's called democracy not just in name, but in function and anyone or any side of politics that tries to take away an Australian citizen's right to vote should be condemned.
 

Christopher Buttersnip

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That's the core of it. It's about excluding those less likely to vote for the reactionaries.

In September, Twomey made a submission to a Senate inquiry considering a similar One Nation bill, noting that voter ID requirements had a “long history in other countries … to prevent or deter certain groups in society from voting”.

 

kickazz

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i know you're funning it, but for the trumpians

AEC/VEC/etc are a combination of public servants and people on short term contracts - they are not political appointees like in the USA

all parties are able to have scrutineers in the rooms to monitor counting, and the reality is when the party people are not present its due to the party not making someone available

the rules in counting rooms are very strict - people are removed if even minor breaches occur

The one and only time I did counting it was at a specific booth at the end of the night and there were only two of us there. Probably could have got up to all sorts of shenanigans but it was an extremely safe seat and I don't think anyone gave a sh*t. Perhaps if the numbers we reported progressively were not what was expected someone would have come out to watch us.
 

Gralin

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A solution to a problem that doesn’t exist.

To be fair though, a conservative is more likely to cheat (mainly due to their lack of morals), so maybe this could backfire for the fu**head if brought in.
Its right up Scott's alley

Racist, classist, biggest impact to people that aren't his base
 

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Ned_Flanders

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The one and only time I did counting it was at a specific booth at the end of the night and there were only two of us there. Probably could have got up to all sorts of shenanigans but it was an extremely safe seat and I don't think anyone gave a sh*t. Perhaps if the numbers we reported progressively were not what was expected someone would have come out to watch us.

There are fail safes to that

The first night us not the certified count.

The next day everyone returns to the local hub, where all booths are recounted. If there is variation to the night before, this gets looked into.

Fwiw last time I did this the alp when up 100 votes because a bundle of 50 were accidentally put in the wrong pile.

These are then later recounted by the Commission once again, and it's now the result is certified.
 

kickazz

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There are fail safes to that

The first night us not the certified count.

The next day everyone returns to the local hub, where all booths are recounted. If there is variation to the night before, this gets looked into.

Fwiw last time I did this the alp when up 100 votes because a bundle of 50 were accidentally put in the wrong pile.

These are then later recounted by the Commission once again, and it's now the result is certified.

Yeah I figured something like that must be the case. Still, we could have easily spoiled ballot papers. I imagine that in closer electorates/booths the scrutineers are there on the night?
 

Ned_Flanders

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Yeah I figured something like that must be the case. Still, we could have easily spoiled ballot papers. I imagine that in closer electorates/booths the scrutineers are there on the night?

in all booths at all electorates, all parties are able to send scrutineers

usually in mine it was as follows:

ON THE NIGHT:
ALP - 3-5
Lib - 2-3
Green - 0-1

NEXT DAY:
ALP - 1-2
Lib - 0
Green - 0
 

Dont At Me

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Mar 11, 2018
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Anecdotes:
  1. This was a local election - say 6 or so years ago. Turned up to my regular polling place to be told I had already voted. Was indignant that no I had not. Had to go through the stat dec challenge etc. to cast my vote.
  2. I think this was Kevin07's year. Voted at a polling place and got a letter in the mail weeks later with a fine for not voting. Wrote back stating that I voted, named the polling place and rough time and included a loose description of the old dude who crossed me off. Never heard back.
Opinions
  • We're probably all going to have to "check-in" to the polling place this election anyway, yeah?
  • I think it will inevitably come in, once the show becomes digital (it'll happen) and additional controls are required due to that - KYC stylee
  • But for today's system it isn't needed. Manual. People. Layers. Checks
  • Voting isn't compulsory. You can elect to cop the (quite small really) fine. Or you can just rock up and get your name ticked off and leave. Or toss the unfilled out ballot in the box. No one actually compels you to cast a formal vote. You can even draw a CnB on the ballot and submit that and not get into trouble. (Warning: Be careful with this one as I've heard these can be counted for the National Party candidate).
  • Strongly encouraging all adults to vote coupled with making it as easy as possible for them to vote (Saturday, Absentee, Early, Postal, sh*t loads of polling places) is possibly the greatest approach in the world.
  • Voter ID for folks whose address is "Long Grass, Katherine, NT 0850" or equivalent needs to be solved for.
 

footyfan1978

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Had a young bloke board at my house a few years ago, now plying his trade overseas. He hasn't bothered to inform the AEC, so the last state and federal election I've had a letter come to my house addressed to him re his not voting. Both times I've just paid the $20 fine, easier for him and me.
fu** these campaigners this election, Shane Sheridan's having two bites at the cherry.
Cannot believe you paying someone else's fine.
I remember I forgot to vote in state election when we played Essendon in 1999 prelim final. Too excited about the footy to remember to vote before I left to go to the G.
I was in the city a couple of months later as there was somewhere you could pay a fine for missing to vote. I remember when I went in there, the staff said we not collecting any more.
So you are paying for a fine that is not yours. I tried to pay a fine for forgetting to vote and they did not want the money. We live in a strange country.. ha ha
 

Northalives

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There are fail safes to that

The first night us not the certified count.

The next day everyone returns to the local hub, where all booths are recounted. If there is variation to the night before, this gets looked into.

Fwiw last time I did this the alp when up 100 votes because a bundle of 50 were accidentally put in the wrong pile.

These are then later recounted by the Commission once again, and it's now the result is certified.
Your postings on this subject are very welcomed Ned_Flanders You are obviously very knowledgeable about this subject and are able to put people's mind at ease when it comes to our brilliant electoral processes. Cheers.
 

carltonchelsea

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On that note, how-to-vote cards should be banned. They serve no useful purpose for democracy, only stupid horse-trading behind closed doors between political parties. If people want to mark you as their first preference, they'll do so and leave the rest of their preferences alone.
Funny that, last council election down in FrAnkston I received a how to vote in my mail box.
I kept it and voted in the exact opposite way this fat prick wanted me to, he was goneski.
It appears they don’t work the way most rorting corrupt pricks don’t want them to because, ya know, google ‘n sh*t!
 

Northalives

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Funny that, last council election down in FrAnkston I received a how to vote in my mail box.
I kept it and voted in the exact opposite way this fat prick wanted me to, he was goneski.
It appears they don’t work the way most rorting corrupt pricks don’t want them to because, ya know, google ‘n sh*t!
Council elections aren't compulsory voting down Victoria way are they? They really should be I reckon Australia wide to engage everyone in that community but I can here the outrage already from many.
 

Pie eyed

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Could have been the inbred Christiansen dropping off a vote Labor form, reverse psychologyin' ya, an you voted "club fat sky fairy prick"!!!!

No not even smart enough to breathe that guy.
 

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