Review vs Adelaide autopsy thread

[Mattdougie]

Not at all about Jong in particular

I've looked at this thing quite a few times for games this year and it can be misleading

You can have one player that has limited touches but doesn't make a mistake rated very high but another player who has many touches but makes a few mistakes lower

Also a handball that doesn't hit a target but isn't a turnover isn't counted as a negative when in fact it should be. Hunters last hand to Crameri does not count as an error when I'm here to tell you THAT WAS A F@CKING ERROR COST US THE GAME lol


And on Jong I'm no longer going to comment other than to say this, if he is still on the list round one 2017 I will admit I'm wrong about him.

 

[Wetdog]

I just watched the replay, we had all the momentum at that time straight after Stringer's goal and 2 players were on for the short pass (and expecting the short pass) if Bob went up the line.

Lets deal in facts:

- there was 11:25 left in the match (ie. more than half the quarter)
- we were 8 points ahead
- it was a high scoring match
- the turnover directly resulted in a point
- the next Adelaide goal occurred 2 and a half minutes later after a number of stoppages (including a possible Dickson mark near the goals and a Bontempelli shot 40m out)

These are indisputable facts.

To suggest that we should be hitting the boundary line for stoppages is counter to our game plan. We have attacked through the corridor all year; why should have this been different?

Yes, as you say, there were two down the line (I think one of these might have been too close for it to be paid a mark) that Murphy could have hit. But what you omit to mention is that there was a free player on the other side of the wing (on the other side of Cameron) that Roberts could have hit had he taken the mark. Had Roberts taken the mark it may well have been the better option going forward. I guess we will never know. But you can hardly criticise Murphy for picking out a player in the corridor who just plainly dropped a sitter because he panicked.

 

[Mattdougie]

Lets deal in facts:

- there was 11:25 left in the match (ie. more than half the quarter)
- we were 8 points ahead
- it was a high scoring match
- the turnover directly resulted in a point
- the next Adelaide goal occurred 2 and a half minutes later after a number of stoppages (including a possible Dickson mark near the goals and a Bontempelli shot 40m out)

These are indisputable facts.

To suggest that we should be hitting the boundary line for stoppages is counter to our game plan. We have attacked through the corridor all year; why should have this been different?

Yes, as you say, there were two down the line (I think one of these might have been too close for it to be paid a mark) that Murphy could have hit. But what you omit to mention is that there was a free player on the other side of the wing (on the other side of Cameron) that Roberts could have hit had he taken the mark. Had Roberts taken the mark it may well have been the better option going forward. I guess we will never know. But you can hardly criticise Murphy for picking out a player in the corridor who just plainly dropped a sitter because he panicked.

Stop using logic and sense in here.

I demand you stop immediately or send this forum in a direction it is unable to comprehend

 

[Wetdog]

Stop using logic and sense in here.

I demand you stop immediately or send this forum in a direction it is unable to comprehend

Obviously in hindsight we think he should have gone down the line! That's because we now know Roberts dropped the mark! And we lost! But that's just simplistic thinking.

Most love Murphy because of his elite disposal and attacking flair! He did both here, and he gets criticised for it! Just crazy stuff.

If some on here want to criticise, fair enough there is plenty of material. But the Murphy kick is not one of them.

 

[Doggstats]

Lets deal in facts:

- there was 11:25 left in the match (ie. more than half the quarter)
- we were 8 points ahead
- it was a high scoring match
- the turnover directly resulted in a point
- the next Adelaide goal occurred 2 and a half minutes later after a number of stoppages (including a possible Dickson mark near the goals and a Bontempelli shot 40m out)

These are indisputable facts.

To suggest that we should be hitting the boundary line for stoppages is counter to our game plan. We have attacked through the corridor all year; why should have this been different?

Yes, as you say, there were two down the line (I think one of these might have been too close for it to be paid a mark) that Murphy could have hit. But what you omit to mention is that there was a free player on the other side of the wing (on the other side of Cameron) that Roberts could have hit had he taken the mark. Had Roberts taken the mark it may well have been the better option going forward. I guess we will never know. But you can hardly criticise Murphy for picking out a player in the corridor who just plainly dropped a sitter because he panicked.

All those "facts" are irrelevant. The fact is it was a mistake, it doesn't matter who, when, where or how, a mistake is a mistake. He had an open player 10m down the line he should of hit for an easy hand pass, who then would of ran, drawn the next defender and then hand pass to the next player who was 10-15m further down the line that would of of led to an almost guaranteed inside 50 with very minimal risk factor, and more importantly would of been quick. Instead for some reason after initially looking like he was going to give the hand pass, he has a brain fade, does a 360, then gets himself into trouble and then is forced to try pull of the most impossible kick to a player in the corridor surrounded by 3 defenders all within 10m. Bob being bob somehow pulls of this impossible kick perfectly, but Roberts shits himself because he realises he's surrounded and doesn't know how close the 2 guys behind actually are. Roberts proceeds to drop the easiest mark you'll ever see and it causes a turnover in the worst possible part of the ground at the worst time that may or may not have cost us the game (and unfortunately maybe his future spot on the team).

"We have attacked through the corridor all year; why should have this been different?" - Do you realise why this is? Because going the corridor is the fastest way to get the ball forward. In the era of the forward press, you have to get the ball forward before their defence can get back and set up. Bobs kick achieves the exact opposite. You say Roberts could of hit the free player on the other side of the ground, but do you realise how long that would of taken? That's 2 40-50m kicks (and the way Crows were aggressively manning the mark all night would have been not easy and slowed us down even more) just to achieve an inside 50 that we were initially 1-2 handballs away from doing.

In the big picture our defence let us down badly that night (funnily our strongest line all season), and that mistake was minor compared to some of the others. Bob was actually one of the better players down back (Roberts and Boyd were just terrible) and more than made up for it by setting us up to win the game with his aggressive play followed by an amazing hand pass in the last 2min that set up a huge surge down the mid that was let down by Hunters terrible hand pass to Crameri (now that was a BAD mistake). But a mistake is a mistake, let's just call them how it is.

Bevo won't miss them though and we will be a lot better for it in the next few years when we're top 4 and pushing for the big one.

 

[dish licker]

That really hurt. Still hurts. Whenever are we going to get that ounce of luck that's needed. To be the equal or better but never get the break. Karma owes us big time. Bev and the boys will take us there. Onwards and Upwards, Go Dogs.

 

[BRWB]

All those "facts" are irrelevant. The fact is it was a mistake, it doesn't matter who, when, where or how, a mistake is a mistake. He had an open player 10m down the line he should of hit for an easy hand pass, who then would of ran, drawn the next defender and then hand pass to the next player who was 10-15m further down the line that would of of led to an almost guaranteed inside 50 with very minimal risk factor, and more importantly would of been quick. Instead for some reason after initially looking like he was going to give the hand pass, he has a brain fade, does a 360, then gets himself into trouble and then is forced to try pull of the most impossible kick to a player in the corridor surrounded by 3 defenders all within 10m. Bob being bob somehow pulls of this impossible kick perfectly, but Roberts shits himself because he realises he's surrounded and doesn't know how close the 2 guys behind actually are. Roberts proceeds to drop the easiest mark you'll ever see and it causes a turnover in the worst possible part of the ground at the worst time that may or may not have cost us the game (and unfortunately maybe his future spot on the team).

"We have attacked through the corridor all year; why should have this been different?" - Do you realise why this is? Because going the corridor is the fastest way to get the ball forward. In the era of the forward press, you have to get the ball forward before their defence can get back and set up. Bobs kick achieves the exact opposite. You say Roberts could of hit the free player on the other side of the ground, but do you realise how long that would of taken? That's 2 40-50m kicks (and the way Crows were aggressively manning the mark all night would have been not easy and slowed us down even more) just to achieve an inside 50 that we were initially 1-2 handballs away from doing.

In the big picture our defence let us down badly that night (funnily our strongest line all season), and that mistake was minor compared to some of the others. Bob was actually one of the better players down back (Roberts and Boyd were just terrible) and more than made up for it by setting us up to win the game with his aggressive play followed by an amazing hand pass in the last 2min that set up a huge surge down the mid that was let down by Hunters terrible hand pass to Crameri (now that was a BAD mistake). But a mistake is a mistake, let's just call them how it is.

Bevo won't miss them though and we will be a lot better for it in the next few years when we're top 4 and pushing for the big one.

Totally disagree with virtually all of this. Murph has been pulling off impossible kicks all year and taking high risk corridor options that split games open. To criticise Murph for doing this very thing in a final under intense pressure when he executed perfectly seems grossly unfair.

Roberts on the other hand, just add that error to the others. Suffice to say Roberts was my least favourite player all night (even behind
Grant and Honey.)

 

[LondonBulldog]

Bob hit the target in the corridor, so hardly his fault. I think it was Roberts who spilled the mark he should have taken. It was a costly error at a key moment in the last quarter. But he isn't the only one who made mistakes.

No...your missing the point...it was a terrible play by Murphy. We had the momentum, it was time to ram home the win, Bonts had made space on the forward flank as was well in the clear.

It was the wrong option, lucky we weren't punish but a mistake by our leader never the less.

 

[stefoid]

We all thought wed run over them after that.

Then Bob kicked the ball into the middle of the ground to can't remember Hamling/Roberts who dropped it and Adelaide locked the ball into their half for the next 5-6 minutes and made it tough for us before eventually hitting the front.

Just don't get why Bob didn't go down the line with that kick.

On the tele, it was a brilliantly executed kick but seemed a poor decision. Roberts had crows players either side of him anyway - even if he had of marked it, he wasnt going to play on - unless there was a teammate ready to run past him out of frame to viewers?

 

[Igloo]

It was a really bad decision by Bob. Indisputably. 2 free players down the line with simple kicks (one of them Bont, who is one of our better kicks inside 50, which is what he probably would have been doing), with not as many Crows around them as Roberts had. From memory, there wasn't even a good switch on the other side of Fletch.

But Mike is correct.

There's some middle ground here in that Murph took a massive unnecessary risk with the kick but executed perfectly and Fletch should've marked it.

 

[King Harold]

I can't join in any meaningful conversation as I am still somewhat gutted.
We pissed that game against a wall no matter how you analyse it.
What makes it worse for me is I am not convinced we were not capable of causing further havoc deeper into the finals.

 

[Doggstats]

Totally disagree with virtually all of this. Murph has been pulling off impossible kicks all year and taking high risk corridor options that split games open. To criticise Murph for doing this very thing in a final under intense pressure when he executed perfectly seems grossly unfair.

Roberts on the other hand, just add that error to the others. Suffice to say Roberts was my least favourite player all night (even behind
Grant and Honey.)

Sorry but you're just wrong. We are dissecting the Crows game here, doesn't matter what anyone did all season, fact is in that situation it was the wrong decision. You gotta just call a spade a spade.

He looked directly at Bontempelli (our best inside 50 kick in the team) and for whatever reason, turned his back on him and got himself into trouble.



Like I said before, overall his game was great and should have won us it in the end with typical offensive Bob magic if it wasn't for 1 bad hand pass, but I'm sick of people cherry picking incidents based on a players reputation. You have to judge each incident as is.

 

[Dogsman16]

Sorry but you're just wrong. We are dissecting the Crows game here, doesn't matter what anyone did all season, fact is in that situation it was the wrong decision. You gotta just call a spade a spade.

He looked directly at Bontempelli (our best inside 50 kick in the team) and for whatever reason, turned his back on him and got himself into trouble.



Like I said before, overall his game was great and should have won us it in the end with typical offensive Bob magic if it wasn't for 1 bad hand pass, but I'm sick of people cherry picking incidents based on a players reputation. You have to judge each incident as is.

All it needed was a simple handpass to Bont who is on his favoured left side.

Watching that again made me cringe.

 

[BRWB]

Sorry but you're just wrong. We are dissecting the Crows game here, doesn't matter what anyone did all season, fact is in that situation it was the wrong decision. You gotta just call a spade a spade.

He looked directly at Bontempelli (our best inside 50 kick in the team) and for whatever reason, turned his back on him and got himself into trouble.



Like I said before, overall his game was great and should have won us it in the end with typical offensive Bob magic if it wasn't for 1 bad hand pass, but I'm sick of people cherry picking incidents based on a players reputation. You have to judge each incident as is.

Thanks for the clip. IMO the options down the line were very close and about to be comfortably shut off. Questionable even if some of these options would have carried the required distance. Also the down the line options were moving backwards never a great option to kick a few metres to a guy going backwards IMO. The Murph kick to Roberts opened up the fat side and space and could have resulted in a fast lead to space and a goal.

So in isolation it was a very high risk play. But the sheer brilliance of the execution could have made it work, if not for Roberts' epic fail.

You can't just look at plays in isolation either as there is always context

 

[Johnno_6]

In addition to highlighting some goal kicking errors made by our players, we should also bear in mind that Adelaide kicked several goals, some of which, under normal circumstances would most certainly have been behinds. They kicked some amazing freaky goals from long range, Taylor Walker for example, and others from difficult angles and some on the rebound from running into open goals.This did not help us and got them over the line. They only needed to miss a couple of these, but unfortunately they didn't.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Not at all about Jong in particular

I've looked at this thing quite a few times for games this year and it can be misleading

You can have one player that has limited touches but doesn't make a mistake rated very high but another player who has many touches but makes a few mistakes lower

Also a handball that doesn't hit a target but isn't a turnover isn't counted as a negative when in fact it should be. Hunters last hand to Crameri does not count as an error when I'm here to tell you THAT WAS A F@CKING ERROR COST US THE GAME lol


And on Jong I'm no longer going to comment other than to say this, if he is still on the list round one 2017 I will admit I'm wrong about him.

OK, I have had my fair share of arguments with you, but surely even you must admit that Jong's mark was a beauty. You can't teach that.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Sloane was excellent when he had the ball in his hands, much the same as Riley Knight.

Didn't expect Sloane to be the number 1 ranked player out there however, didn't think he got enough of it.

Sloane a clear BOG from where I was sitting. His run and ability to win crucial contests was outstanding and too often he was able to waltz through our pressure. His spread and work rate was phenomenal. Killed us.

 

[Doggstats]

Thanks for the clip. IMO the options down the line were very close and about to be comfortably shut off. Questionable even if some of these options would have carried the required distance. Also the down the line options were moving backwards never a great option to kick a few metres to a guy going backwards IMO. The Murph kick to Roberts opened up the fat side and space and could have resulted in a fast lead to space and a goal.

So in isolation it was a very high risk play. But the sheer brilliance of the execution could have made it work, if not for Roberts' epic fail.

You can't just look at plays in isolation either as there is always context

Fair enough. We can agree to disagree.

One thing's for sure, Roberts epic fail of a night might have just earned Carlisle a phone call from us.

-

I think JJ's absence is really underrated, not only to stop Betts, but offensively there was just too much weight on Bobs back (and added pressure). If JJ played, we win convincingly IMO. Watching back, JJ's absence exposed just how bad Boyd's leg speed is, even after we rested him twice in the last 3 weeks. With how our defence rotates all it takes is one weak link and we get exposed.

With Libba, Koby and maybe Clay coming back in next year, what about trying Jong down back? His contested and intercept marking was really impressive on the weekend. His leg speed is insane, he's got good height, marking and line breaking ability. Also this year Boyd has showed that kicking under no pressure in the backline (whilst knowing nothing's behind you) is childs play compared to bursting out of a stoppage and kicking under pressure without knowing what's behind you.

 

[doggies ftw]

I can't join in any meaningful conversation as I am still somewhat gutted.
We pissed that game against a wall no matter how you analyse it.
What makes it worse for me is I am not convinced we were not capable of causing further havoc deeper into the finals.

This is exactly how I feel, we would be a sneaky chance against a battered Hawthorn after a confidence boosting final. Cant underestimate how much a win would have helped. And frankly we blew it but like others have said you have to be proud of the boys for the year and we will be so much better for the run.

Still too shattered to go into any more detail on the result

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Has anyone else noticed that whenever Sloane is in a contest, marking or tackling, when he stands up he touches his mouth and nose and looks at his fingers, to give the impression he's been roughed up and bloodied? Happens frequently. Good player though, not necessary.

 

[BRWB]

Matthew Boyd has had a great year and reinvented himself, but did people notice that in finals heat he seemed to regress back to bad disposal Boyd??

 

[Outback Footy]

We kicked shit all night. The ball bounced their way, freaky goals went through for them and sitters missed for us.
It was Adelaides night, weve all played in games like that, I told my 12 year old at half time that there are times when the ball just doesn't bounce your way, saturday was one of those nights.

Don't single out any one of our players, least of all Cap'n Bob, hes a genius. Grant, Bonti, Crammers, theres a bunch of guys who would normally not miss who did. BTW when Caleb came on he made an immediate impact, then spindles kicked straight and I thought the ball was finally bouncing our way - so close, now for 2016.

If only a couple of small things had gone our way we would have won. We are SOOOO close, the futures bright, lets move on.

 

[Tommycash]

Hurts too much to read this!

 

[immortalmike]

Matthew Boyd has had a great year and reinvented himself, but did people notice that in finals heat he seemed to regress back to bad disposal Boyd??

Or he just had a bad night. Has been great under pressure all year.
Think it was a bad idea to rest him.

 

[MJ_Dogs]

We kicked shit all night. The ball bounced their way, freaky goals went through for them and sitters missed for us.
It was Adelaides night, weve all played in games like that, I told my 12 year old at half time that there are times when the ball just doesn't bounce your way, saturday was one of those nights.

Don't single out any one of our players, least of all Cap'n Bob, hes a genius. Grant, Bonti, Crammers, theres a bunch of guys who would normally not miss who did. BTW when Caleb came on he made an immediate impact, then spindles kicked straight and I thought the ball was finally bouncing our way - so close, now for 2016.

If only a couple of small things had gone our way we would have won. We are SOOOO close, the futures bright, lets move on.

BUT FFS when will it be our bloody night!!!!!