Autopsy vs Carlton - Round 8, 2020

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Rod Stroker

Hall of Famer
Oct 9, 2003
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North Melbourne
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"smarts around goal" I'd like to point out that he hasn't kicked one.....
This is true. But he's only played 4 games, in 4 losses, where our forward line has been beyond dysfunctional, and we've probably kicked the least amount of goals of any team in that time.
I'm willing to cut the kid some slack. What's positive is that despite our current abysmal predicament of 6 straight losses, the kid is still up and about and having a go.
 

Tas

Premium Gold
Dec 23, 2002
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There can be only one...
I certainly wouldn’t underestimate the power of work that Cunnington does. However, if his loss is always going to result in the collapse of our team, then there is a fundamental problem with our team. He’s good but he’s not that good. Last year, he even struggled to shake a tag.


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Having no Cunnington or Ziebell in wet conditions didn't help, I thought Polec did well on Cripps when he was on him but taking the biased glasses off when you look at how we move the ball, it is shithouse, particularly out of defence. It is usually a rushed kick on the boot or a kick up the line, we work hard to win possession but we just have no system of moving the ball with any purpose. It isn't our first instinct to move the ball quickly, there isn't any spread, nobody is moving to create space, it is just one of the ugliest brands of footy we are playing and it is eye-bleeding bad to watch as a supporter, if I was a neutral I would turn it off.

Our footy is ugly, we have too many mids who can't kick. For the entire season average, our mids are going...
Polec 52.4% kicking efficiency
Higgins 62.2%
Dumont 62.2%
Simpkin 55.7%
Hall 55.9%
Anderson 54%
Ahern 45.5%
Scott 80%
Cunnington 44.4%
LDU 100%
Ziebell 48%

It is part that some of these players aren't great kicks at the best of time, but the reason these are so low is the type of kicks they do, rushed hack kicks or long down the line kicks have a low probability of hitting a target. If you move the ball faster, you have more players in space giving you higher probability kicks and you have less contested possession around just moving the ball but it requires the whole team to run, it takes selfless football, it means players need to shepherd, the number of players I have seen who have seen an opposition player coming and put no effort to protect our ball carrier makes me want to vomit.

We are talking about the basics of football. Yes, you want that good pressure and tacking intensity when you don't have the ball but we have to work hard to retain the ball when we do get it and we want to move it quickly so our forwards have a good opportunities to score.

Best performing sides are currently Port and Brisbane and the major difference is the speed of ball movement between those doing well and us. Statistically speaking we aren't doing that bad in many areas but the way we move the ball doesn't suit the strengths of our younger players who are not all big bodied grunts and we are seeing the physical cost of just trying to be a battering ram and having little finesse.
 

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sross

Premiership Player
Apr 20, 2001
3,156
329
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Having no Cunnington or Ziebell in wet conditions didn't help, I thought Polec did well on Cripps when he was on him but taking the biased glasses off when you look at how we move the ball, it is shithouse, particularly out of defence. It is usually a rushed kick on the boot or a kick up the line, we work hard to win possession but we just have no system of moving the ball with any purpose. It isn't our first instinct to move the ball quickly, there isn't any spread, nobody is moving to create space, it is just one of the ugliest brands of footy we are playing and it is eye-bleeding bad to watch as a supporter, if I was a neutral I would turn it off.

Our footy is ugly, we have too many mids who can't kick. For the entire season average, our mids are going...
Polec 52.4% kicking efficiency
Higgins 62.2%
Dumont 62.2%
Simpkin 55.7%
Hall 55.9%
Anderson 54%
Ahern 45.5%
Scott 80%
Cunnington 44.4%
LDU 100%
Ziebell 48%

It is part that some of these players aren't great kicks at the best of time, but the reason these are so low is the type of kicks they do, rushed hack kicks or long down the line kicks have a low probability of hitting a target. If you move the ball faster, you have more players in space giving you higher probability kicks and you have less contested possession around just moving the ball but it requires the whole team to run, it takes selfless football, it means players need to shepherd, the number of players I have seen who have seen an opposition player coming and put no effort to protect our ball carrier makes me want to vomit.

We are talking about the basics of football. Yes, you want that good pressure and tacking intensity when you don't have the ball but we have to work hard to retain the ball when we do get it and we want to move it quickly so our forwards have a good opportunities to score.

Best performing sides are currently Port and Brisbane and the major difference is the speed of ball movement between those doing well and us. Statistically speaking we aren't doing that bad in many areas but the way we move the ball doesn't suit the strengths of our younger players who are not all big bodied grunts and we are seeing the physical cost of just trying to be a battering ram and having little finesse.

The best post I have read all year. Absolutely spot on. Well done Tas
 

chubbspeterson

Club Legend
Oct 10, 2007
2,971
1,852
Melbourne
AFL Club
North Melbourne
I couldn't believe we almost won this one, good on JMac and Pittard for getting onboard with the "process" regime with their il-discipline.
Carlton about as convincing as Essendon atm.
I'd drop JMac (poor standard) for Maj but Kyron might be an out so likely JMac might stay in, Pittard (ill-discipline) for Murphy and Mahony (rest) for W Walker but I think that won't happen. Give LDU some time, he looked cooked after half time, judge him in 4-5 weeks when fitness isn't a question mark.
 

HongKongRoo

Club Legend
Jul 6, 2006
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I'm struggling to see the rationale too. Surely a small forward needs to have some tricks in his kit bag? I've not seen anything from him yet. We desperately need a small forward and on current sample size, it's not him. I don't think he's kicked a goal yet?
Short enough to draw a couple of head-high tackles? Maybe that's his trick
 

Bluesome

Team Captain
Oct 3, 2018
354
1,169
AFL Club
Carlton
5 Marc Murphy (CARL)
5 Lachie Plowman (CARL)
4 Matthew Kennedy (CARL)
4 Jared Polec (NMFC)
3 Sam Walsh (CARL)
3 Marc Pittonet (CARL)
3 Ed Curnow (CARL)
2 Jacob Weitering (CARL)
1 Luke McDonald (NMFC)
Strangest voting sequence all year....in fact probably strangest I have ever seen...
 

King Corey

Moderator
Jun 9, 2001
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Windy Hill Safe Injecting Room
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St Johnstone
5 Marc Murphy (CARL)
5 Lachie Plowman (CARL)
4 Matthew Kennedy (CARL)
4 Jared Polec (NMFC)
3 Sam Walsh (CARL)
3 Marc Pittonet (CARL)
3 Ed Curnow (CARL)
2 Jacob Weitering (CARL)
1 Luke McDonald (NMFC)
Wtf indeed.

Goldie misses out but his direct opponent gets votes. Interesting.

Simpkin's tag gets votes but Cripps' doesn't :think:

Shaw mightn't be dropping the shitmen at selection but he sure ain't voting for them either.
 

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leighlee13

Senior List
Aug 13, 2019
248
613
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Wow!
Carlton chasing answers after tactics used by North Melbourne against Patrick Cripps

The Blues are far from happy with the treatment of superstar midfielder and skipper Patrick Cripps after he was continually manhandled off the ball by North Melbourne players. But will the AFL act?

Jon Ralph, Herald Sun
Subscriber only
July 27, 2020 5:59pm

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...9/news-story/1a799641be0dca6da515979cb2867e51
Carlton will again raise Patrick Cripps’ treatment with the umpires this week after footage emerged of him being regularly mauled by North Melbourne midfielders in the victory over the Roos.

Carlton indicated on Monday they have had regular communication with the umpires about Cripps’ treatment, with his lack of free kicks at stoppages to be on the agenda again this week.

The Herald Sun understands the issue of Cripps being stopped from getting to the ball by players with their back to the stoppage is of particular concern.

Cripps said he would leave the discussion up to the AFL and football boss Brad Lloyd, who will clarify those decisions this week.

Cripps did not get a free kick when tackled to the ground by Jed Anderson at a stoppage, which resulted in a melee that saw him fined $750 for wrestling.

But Carlton was as aggrieved by tactics highlighted by Fox Footy’s David King on Sunday which showed North Melbourne players defending Cripps with their back to the ball.

On several occasions Cripps was effectively tackled by those players with their hands around him as they faced away from stoppages.

Yet Cripps gave away free kicks to the one he was awarded, having been given 15 free kicks for the year and having given away 17.

Carlton champion Mark Maclure told the Herald Sun on Monday if the umpires paid more genuine holding free kicks at stoppages it would help rid the game of the congestion that currently plagues the code.

But he said Carlton’s midfielders also had to give Cripps more protection, which would highlight to umpires his manhandling.

“I am not happy about it. The umpires seem to let it go. What was the umpire doing? At ball ups and boundary throw-ins everyone has their arms around each other.

“We have so many stoppages in 90 minutes of football and so many of them are because the umpires won’t pay a free kick.

“Diesel Williams would have punched his opponent. He would have belted them and the umpire would have said nothing because they would have deserved it but Cripps can’t do that because he would be out for two weeks.

“I think the AFL have a major problem running their game. Why does it take Clarko (Alastair Clarkson) to change the rules with one complaint? Why do we need two ruckmen to amble up and we call them out instead of throwing the thing in?

“If two people from one team go up it’s a free kick. How hard is it? We need to simplify the rules for the umpires.”

Carlton football boss Brad Lloyd confirmed the Blues were regularly in contact with umpires boss Grant Williams to get clarification.

“I think one of the reasons we love watching the (Marcus) Bontempelli’s and Patty Cripps for us is they are ball hunters and you like to see those guys getting a really good run at the footy without being impeded,” he said.

“When players take their eye off the contest and stare straight at that player or bear-hug them they are the things you have to watch. We will continue to have those conversations.”

Carlton coach David Teague admitted it was a challenge that Cripps had been facing for many years.

“Look, you want your ball-winners to be able to go hunt the ball and the opposition are coming out to try to stop him,” he said.

“It’s a challenge. It’s not new this year. Patrick’s been facing that for a while and I love the way he approaches it.

“He keeps hunting the ball and attacking and taking the game on. So to his credit he keeps competing for us and that’s what we need.”
 

Passmore

Brownlow Medallist
May 22, 2001
12,477
29,154
The Gasometer Wing
AFL Club
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Norf
Wow!
Carlton chasing answers after tactics used by North Melbourne against Patrick Cripps

The Blues are far from happy with the treatment of superstar midfielder and skipper Patrick Cripps after he was continually manhandled off the ball by North Melbourne players. But will the AFL act?

Jon Ralph, Herald Sun
Subscriber only
July 27, 2020 5:59pm

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...9/news-story/1a799641be0dca6da515979cb2867e51
Carlton will again raise Patrick Cripps’ treatment with the umpires this week after footage emerged of him being regularly mauled by North Melbourne midfielders in the victory over the Roos.

Carlton indicated on Monday they have had regular communication with the umpires about Cripps’ treatment, with his lack of free kicks at stoppages to be on the agenda again this week.

The Herald Sun understands the issue of Cripps being stopped from getting to the ball by players with their back to the stoppage is of particular concern.

Cripps said he would leave the discussion up to the AFL and football boss Brad Lloyd, who will clarify those decisions this week.

Cripps did not get a free kick when tackled to the ground by Jed Anderson at a stoppage, which resulted in a melee that saw him fined $750 for wrestling.

But Carlton was as aggrieved by tactics highlighted by Fox Footy’s David King on Sunday which showed North Melbourne players defending Cripps with their back to the ball.

On several occasions Cripps was effectively tackled by those players with their hands around him as they faced away from stoppages.

Yet Cripps gave away free kicks to the one he was awarded, having been given 15 free kicks for the year and having given away 17.

Carlton champion Mark Maclure told the Herald Sun on Monday if the umpires paid more genuine holding free kicks at stoppages it would help rid the game of the congestion that currently plagues the code.

But he said Carlton’s midfielders also had to give Cripps more protection, which would highlight to umpires his manhandling.

“I am not happy about it. The umpires seem to let it go. What was the umpire doing? At ball ups and boundary throw-ins everyone has their arms around each other.

“We have so many stoppages in 90 minutes of football and so many of them are because the umpires won’t pay a free kick.

“Diesel Williams would have punched his opponent. He would have belted them and the umpire would have said nothing because they would have deserved it but Cripps can’t do that because he would be out for two weeks.

“I think the AFL have a major problem running their game. Why does it take Clarko (Alastair Clarkson) to change the rules with one complaint? Why do we need two ruckmen to amble up and we call them out instead of throwing the thing in?

“If two people from one team go up it’s a free kick. How hard is it? We need to simplify the rules for the umpires.”

Carlton football boss Brad Lloyd confirmed the Blues were regularly in contact with umpires boss Grant Williams to get clarification.

“I think one of the reasons we love watching the (Marcus) Bontempelli’s and Patty Cripps for us is they are ball hunters and you like to see those guys getting a really good run at the footy without being impeded,” he said.

“When players take their eye off the contest and stare straight at that player or bear-hug them they are the things you have to watch. We will continue to have those conversations.”

Carlton coach David Teague admitted it was a challenge that Cripps had been facing for many years.

“Look, you want your ball-winners to be able to go hunt the ball and the opposition are coming out to try to stop him,” he said.

“It’s a challenge. It’s not new this year. Patrick’s been facing that for a while and I love the way he approaches it.

“He keeps hunting the ball and attacking and taking the game on. So to his credit he keeps competing for us and that’s what we need.”
So I take it that Teague will be relieving Ed Curnow of his duties?
 

Tas

Premium Gold
Dec 23, 2002
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There can be only one...
If Criipps was smart he would start more than 5m from the ball at stoppages now and then which would make attempts to shepherd him out of contests illegal. He wouldn't have to do ti all the time but if he started to get some cheap clearances it would put taggers off their game.

I am not a huge fan when some taggers put themselves between their man and the ball and aren't looking at the ball in contest and are just shepherding them out of the contest.
 

F_therest

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 3, 2013
15,184
31,362
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Carlton
So I take it that Teague will be relieving Ed Curnow of his duties?
Its a joke. Jy played with one arm held all day and they are sooking.
Hypocrisy abounds.

Cripps was beaten by a harder opponent.

I get that he gets tagged every week, but maybe they should develop more kids to take up the slack.
Just thought i'd say that this is sensationalism journalism using that headline, making our like Carlton have a big issue with Cripps' treatment.

I've listened to Cripps/Teague/Brad Lloyd's interviews and at no point did we whinge or have an issue with it...all answered very diplomatically. Dwayne Russell interviewed Brad Llloyd (footy manager) and asked 3 times in different ways whether we'd speak to the umpiring department about Cripps clearly fishing for a headline...Lloyd played a straight bat and said we regularly talk to the umps about a whole range of things. Russell then asks again 'Will the Cripps treatment be one of them?' and Lloyd simply said something like 'That might be looked at, along with other decisions throughout the game after we review it like we do on a regular basis'...

Headline: Carlton chasing answers after tactics used by North Melbourne against Patrick Cripps

I mean look at the quotes of our staff in that article...nothing whingy about it and were cherry picked after constant questioning. The headline, the line saying 'Carlton felt aggrieved' (which is the journo's opinion) and David King/Mark McLure's comments are the sooky ones, which have nothing to do with Carlton.

Seriously.
 

nj23

Debutant
Jan 24, 2019
109
278
AFL Club
North Melbourne
And Murphy is the softest player I’ve seen in a while.

I’m happy to fly the flag for Pittard for what was an action seen probably 20 times a game.

Murphy had about 6 embarrassing efforts on and off the ball.
On that incident that many are calling a brain fade I watched it over a few times and disagree it was a brain fade deserving of a free kick. Pittard looks like he’s pulling up to Murphy rather than run through him. Good acting by Murphy. Not sure why so many people generally have an issue with pittard but I often find neutrals that hate pittard but love Sicily (wtf?) when they’re very similar players. Anyway, I’m done ranting.
 

CharlieMortdecai

Premiership Player
Aug 17, 2009
3,799
2,376
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Strangest voting sequence all year....in fact probably strangest I have ever seen...
Yeah, I've never seen two coaches with such fundamentally different views of a game before:
Murphy - 5 and 0
Plowman - 5 and 0
Polec - 4 and 0 (presumably from Teague since he's dropped)
Kennedy - 4 and 0
Two of Walsh/Pittonet/Curnow - 3 and 0
Weitering - 2 and 0
McDonald - 1 and 0

So one of Walsh, Pittonet or Curnow was the only player to receive votes from both coaches.
 

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