Autopsy vs Collingwood - Rd 18, 2018 - Hate hate hate hate HATE HATE HATE

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ferball

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Jul 24, 2015
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Mate with all due respect there is a Pressure Act and then there is a Pressure Act that causes a Turnover. In addition if you think for a second that our small forwards impact the scoreboard you are sadly mistaken. It is our key forwards who by and large kick our goals. Now I know that you don't attend many games. I do and when you're at the game you can see what sort of Pressure our forwards apply and to be frank it isn't good enough. Sure the problem is Team wide at the minute but our small forwards are giving us bugger all. Offensively and Defensively. Now you can think otherwise but you'd be sadly mistaken. :stern look
It doesn't matter who scores the goals if someone else causes a turnover. One of the reaons KPFs score our goals is because the quick turnovers bring the ball into them with some advantage which they need given the tunnelling and double teaming that goes on. Also - Hrovat ran down an opposition player caused the turnover himself and kicked a goal from it in the second quarter. (And frankly I would have dropped him 2 weeks ago cos he needs to do alot more.)

You have access to the stats from CD don't you?

How many turnovers do our forwards make, where do they make them and how many result in goals? How many of our pressure acts result in pressure on the kicker/handballer and lead to a turnover up field.

How many goals do we score from turnovers and has that changed since the Brisbane game?
 

B4Bear

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Jul 6, 2011
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Too slow. Cooked for the season.

Snake's observation a while back that if we got injuries to the starting 22 we would be exposed for the lack of depth is 100% correct.

It has been a wild year, and I suspect that there will be more players delisted than we expect this year. The cleanout will continue; those in the firing line, including but not limited to:

Turner
Garner
McDonald
McMillan
Clarke
Hrovat
Dumont
Goldstein
Thompson
Wright

In my mind all of those players (and I am sure there are others) are on the chopping block. They either are not good enough, have slowed down too much or are too inconsistent to demand a regular spot in the team.
 

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muttley45

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I have a theory, which is partly catch 22, partly self fulfilling prophecy, partly dog chasing his own tail, that because as a collective, we do not push up high and retain posession in F50 until we score, instead, hanging back to try and repel in the inevitable turnover and quick rebound.

Which is actually being reactive rather than proactive, and in reality, a measure of poor workrate and intensity.

Basic skill errors and poor decision making just exacerbate this phenomena.
 

King Corey

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Too slow. Cooked for the season.

Snake's observation a while back that if we got injuries to the starting 22 we would be exposed for the lack of depth is 100% correct.

It has been a wild year, and I suspect that there will be more players delisted than we expect this year. The cleanout will continue; those in the firing line, including but not limited to:

Turner
Garner
McDonald
McMillan
3 of those 4 were extended within the last 12 months though.
 

ferball

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I have a theory, which is partly catch 22, partly self fulfilling prophecy, partly dog chasing his own tail, that because as a collective, we do not push up high and retain posession in F50 until we score, instead, hanging back to try and repel in the inevitable turnover and quick rebound.

Which is actually being reactive rather than proactive, and in reality, a measure of poor workrate and intensity.

Basic skill errors and poor decision making just exacerbate this phenomena.
I think that is because we were causing turnovers and getting the ball in quickly to keep the forward line open for Browny et al. Its better to do that up the ground a bit to give them space to work in.
 

archereleven

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Apr 7, 2013
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Martin and Kelly couldn't save us on Saturday. Need to hit the draft harder than ever before.

Depth is seriously being tested now.
Theoretically Martin and Kelly would save us from games like that. They would push our bottom 2 out of the side, get their hands on the ball 30+ times each and deliver the ball with poise to forwards that could of taken their undersized and undermanned backline to the cleaners with better movement.

Do players like Martin/Kelly inspire and drag the team with them or do we still have lazy, complacent campaigners all over the field? That is the question...



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King Corey

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Theoretically Martin and Kelly would save us from games like that. They would push our bottom 2 out of the side, get their hands on the ball 30+ times each and deliver the ball with poise to forwards that could of taken their undersized and undermanned backline to the cleaners with better movement.

Do players like Martin/Kelly inspire and drag the team with them or do we still have lazy, complacent campaigners all over the field? That is the question...



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Good points. They would blunt losses like that but those 2 have both been part of team units that have been shredded by opponents regardless of their inclusion until their sides got their act together.
 

Horizons_00

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I don't think we are slow

I just think when we are not the leaders of putting immense pressure on the opposition (they double our tackle count), we crumble which makes us look slow

Every single time we got the ball there were 3-4 players chasing and tackling us

Cant take away how good the pies are this year, with their injuries etc they are playing like a team that are finals ready imo
 

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archereleven

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Good points. They would blunt losses like that but those 2 have both been part of team units that have been shredded by opponents regardless of their inclusion until their sides got their act together.
Everyone loses.

What the pies did to our midfield is very much less likely to happen with Martin, Kelly, Cunnington, Higgins, Anderson, Ahern etc.

I agree though, lack of effort and intensity is unforgivable, especially when your whole season is on the line. 2 stars wont lift your bottom 8 if they simply arnt trying...

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archereleven

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I don't think we are slow

I just think when we are not the leaders of putting immense pressure on the opposition (they double our tackle count), we crumble which makes us look slow

Every single time we got the ball there were 3-4 players chasing and tackling us

Cant take away how good the pies are this year, with their injuries etc they are playing like a team that are finals ready imo
Every team looks slow when they are getting doubled in the tackle count...

We lost to lolmond bt 10 points. We certainly didnt look slow that day and they are the fastest team in the comp by a mile at present...

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Caracas

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Given that we were flogged 57-44 on the inside 50 count, it's interesting and surprising (to a degree) that we, actually, won the inside 50 tackle count (11-13). Therefore, the most damning stat of all is the tackle count between the 50 metre arcs. We lost that by a massive 72-34! It can, correctly, be argued that the Pies marked so often inside their F50 that they hardly ever needed to tackle. Regardless, our lack of midfield pressure was stark.
 

giantroo

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You can almost sense how pissed off Higgins is.
He fronts up, week after week, breaks the tag, stays out there the most of the mids, busts a gut and gets naught at the end.
Its his 200th this week.
They owe him.
We usually don't put in two bad ones in a row. They will be up for it.
 

Moti

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Mar 4, 2001
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I don't think we are slow

I just think when we are not the leaders of putting immense pressure on the opposition (they double our tackle count), we crumble which makes us look slow

Every single time we got the ball there were 3-4 players chasing and tackling us

Cant take away how good the pies are this year, with their injuries etc they are playing like a team that are finals ready imo
We are slow, can’t see an argument against it. Doesn’t always relate to how a game is played but when sides get on top our speed or lack there of is a big problem.

Without speed, it is difficult to get into space to give you time for good decision making. You either have to have Cunnington strength or Pendles vision.

Without speed, you cannot our pressure on ball carriers when they get the ball.

Without speed, it is harder to close down space.

Without speed, you turn an uncontested ball into a contested one.

Higgins and Anderson are about the only quick players in the middle and they aren’t super quick. However, the bigger issue is having below average speed players like Cunnington, Dumont and Jack.

It also doesn’t help when you play average paced players in attacking positions like the wing because you don’t have a spot anywhere else.

Speed is not the only ingredient, but it is an important one.


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muttley45

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I think that is because we were causing turnovers and getting the ball in quickly to keep the forward line open for Browny et al. Its better to do that up the ground a bit to give them space to work in.
Agree, but if Browny or Maj don't take a mark or get a free, we are severely outnumbered in F50 and it comes straight back out again, i would love to see the stat's for retention/F50 entry.
 

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