Autopsy vs Collingwood - Rd 18, 2018 - Hate hate hate hate HATE HATE HATE

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archereleven

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You can almost sense how pissed off Higgins is.
He fronts up, week after week, breaks the tag, stays out there the most of the mids, busts a gut and gets naught at the end.
Its his 200th this week.
They owe him.
On the flip side, Higgo didnt lay a tackle for the game either but at least you know what you're getting with him offensively. Gun.

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RobZombie

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Too slow. Cooked for the season.

Snake's observation a while back that if we got injuries to the starting 22 we would be exposed for the lack of depth is 100% correct.

It has been a wild year, and I suspect that there will be more players delisted than we expect this year. The cleanout will continue; those in the firing line, including but not limited to:

Turner
Garner
McDonald
McMillan
Clarke
Hrovat
Dumont
Goldstein
Thompson
Wright

In my mind all of those players (and I am sure there are others) are on the chopping block. They either are not good enough, have slowed down too much or are too inconsistent to demand a regular spot in the team.
mate most of those blokes are under contract. Some of them were extended this year.
 

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B4Bear

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mate most of those blokes are under contract. Some of them were extended this year.
Contracts and extensions mean nothing if the club chooses to go down that path.

I seem to remember a certain captain that had a year left on his contract that left early. And of course there is always the option of trades, and if not that then see out the contracts in the VFL.
 

koshari

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The limitation of trades is you are really only shuffling round your deprh players. Pretty hard to land a best 22 player without offering up another best 22 unless you put up a seculative like mckay or larkey. And if you do that your potentially robbing the future to shore up the present.
 

BigRedRoo

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Smashed on the spread, repeat easy exits allowed them to get through with ease.

Our depth issues are killing us.
This comment is spot on!

Collingwood clearly run a pattern that see a player fall behind the pack ready for the backwards handball and far enough behind that a clean disposal is possible.
Combined with some hard run off the half back line and real hunger for the ball all allowed for good delivery into their forward zone.

Things to note.
We need a small crumbing forward to capitalize on the number of time the ball is brought to ground in our forward line.
Sorry Turner, you just don't cut it when it comes to hitting the scoreboard.
Our workrate has fallen off a cliff, too many subpar performance that has seen players rewarded with more games.
Run at the player with the ball, take the arm in the tackle, repeat.

Depth is a problem but not swinging the axe has let to many players in the team who just not hungry for the ball.
Yes McDonald Im looking at you!

BigRed
 

giantroo

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North v Collingwood votes
9 – Scott Pendlebury
9 – Jordan De Goey
5 – Taylor Adams
3 – Jeremy Howe
2 – Josh Thomas
2 – Shaun Higgins

Leaderboard
64 - Shaun Higgins
42 - Ben Cunnington
40 - Ben Brown
23 - Jarrad Waite
18 - Ben Jacobs

Overall leaderboard
71 - Max Gawn
68 - Patrick Cripps, Tom Mitchell
64 – Shaun Higgins
61 - Andrew Gaff
59 – Nat Fyfe
 

Gasometer

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North v Collingwood votes
9 – Scott Pendlebury
9 – Jordan De Goey
5 – Taylor Adams
3 – Jeremy Howe
2 – Josh Thomas
2 – Shaun Higgins

Leaderboard
64 - Shaun Higgins
42 - Ben Cunnington
40 - Ben Brown
23 - Jarrad Waite
18 - Ben Jacobs

Overall leaderboard
71 - Max Gawn
68 - Patrick Cripps, Tom Mitchell
64 – Shaun Higgins
61 - Andrew Gaff
59 – Nat Fyfe
Lock thread now

This game needs to be blow torched from BF
 

amaz199

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Collingwood clearly run a pattern that see a player fall behind the pack ready for the backwards handball and far enough behind that a clean disposal is possible.
Combined with some hard run off the half back line and real hunger for the ball all allowed for good delivery into their forward zone.
Kinda reminds me of the 2010-11 Collingwood. Harass, harass, harass, tackle, gather, give then spread.

Not only did they use it better, they got to the ball first more often than we did. On top of that, our backline full of hopeless plodders couldn't keep up with the mobile pies forward line. It was just painful to watch the replay.
Things to note.
We need a small crumbing forward to capitalize on the number of time the ball is brought to ground in our forward line.
Sorry Turner, you just don't cut it when it comes to hitting the scoreboard.
Our workrate has fallen off a cliff, too many subpar performance that has seen players rewarded with more games.
Run at the player with the ball, take the arm in the tackle, repeat.
Oh boy, there are two names that would be clinical in that situation, unfortunately, they aren't on the roster. But we have to move on and just improve. We cannot go back to old ways...

Workrate has gone to sh*t. I can tolerate a loss if the guys have nothing in the tank but FFS sometimes this gets frustrating. What is wrong with telling selection committee that you are cooked and need a spell in the VFL? North players put your HAND UP! VFL is there for players to take advantage of, to improve on things they can actually improve on without being spanked by a more fit AFL-level opponent. FFS it is their job and get paid heaps. Brad Scott can't take care of everyone, take responsibility playing group!
Depth is a problem but not swinging the axe has let to many players in the team who just not hungry for the ball.
Yes McDonald Im looking at you!
He is not alone. There were some questionable efforts from some players all over the ground.

Are we cooked? Possibly. Are we on the verge of a form slump? I sure hope not. Again, VFL is there for players to take some managed spells.

Do we have depth issues that are not temporarily fixable? Yes. Can we work around them? That question still remains to be answered.

My expectations changed dramatically in the first 5 rounds, and after R7, I think we thought we could go quite a long way.

But it has come down to the level that I have almost lost interest in the rest of the year. I cannot, for as long as I live, tolerate the effort that was displayed on Saturday afternoon. The players are responsible, not the coaching group.

My expectations have dwindled to expecting mediocrity from here because I think the comments I have made from earlier on in the season are no longer valid right now. Especially after that glorious Hawks win. Depth issues or no depth issues, I want this team to be 100% the whole 4 quarters, it is their job.

Have we sorted running both ways? I have no clue. And if we haven't, I wouldn't even be surprised. It might take another 5 years before we even get anywhere near a potential premiership season. And by then, most of the old cattle will be gone. So fu** knows how we will replace those players and have back-ups ready to go then.

Prove me wrong North. Because right now I have lost belief in my own words from the first half of the season.

100% effort every week is not hard North. You have chiropractors, physicians, trainers, massage rooms, injury programs etc. to help you out. Not good enough.
 

Zondor

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It doesn't matter who scores the goals if someone else causes a turnover. One of the reaons KPFs score our goals is because the quick turnovers bring the ball into them with some advantage which they need given the tunnelling and double teaming that goes on. Also - Hrovat ran down an opposition player caused the turnover himself and kicked a goal from it in the second quarter. (And frankly I would have dropped him 2 weeks ago cos he needs to do alot more.)

You have access to the stats from CD don't you?

How many turnovers do our forwards make, where do they make them and how many result in goals? How many of our pressure acts result in pressure on the kicker/handballer and lead to a turnover up field.

How many goals do we score from turnovers and has that changed since the Brisbane game?
What? It doesn't matter who scores the goals? The more dynamic your forward line is, the more avenue to Goals you have, the more difficult it is for your opposition to defend. So it does matter. It matters when our small forwards rarely find themselves at the feet of our key forwards to crumb a spill. It does matter that they are ineffective offensively. That is a concern. :stern look

Mate, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? Are you suggesting that our small forwards are doing their job? The theme in this thread relating to Pressure Acts is that it's a nonsense Stat. That is because it doesn't necessarily result in a turnover. Bottom line is that our small forwards are an area of concern. They don't hit the scoreboard. They don't find much of the pill. They are hardly at the feet of our key forwards. They chase no doubt but their defensive actions aren't resulting in us being able to stifle the opposition backs from waltzing out of defence and lock the ball in our forward line on a consistent basis. Sure our team as a whole has dropped off in its defensive efforts but that doesn't excuse the performances of our small forwards. :stern look
 

tazaa

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Lolled when Jack said they studied the blueprint by West Coast on how to beat the Pies.
We raised the white flag within minutes.

Mentally we weren’t switched on and heads have to roll for that.
I honestly think our bottoms 10 players have had enough and can’t go further.
Which is a shame because our better players have been carrying us for months.
We really need to trade for an A grader and target Gaff because the fitness level and longevity of the list is in a perilous state.
 

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SonofSamsquanch

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I honestly think our bottoms 10 players have had enough and can’t go further.
Which is a shame because our better players have been carrying us for months.
Articulated better than my attempt a few weeks ago. Admittedly, I went early (after the * game) saying that we were not going to win the flag - and my reasoning was the amount of heavy lifting being done by the top half of the team, verses the almost lack of presence on field from the bottom half. Higgo, Ben10, BBB, Taz, Scooter and not that many others have been terrific this season. It may be that these blokes have done enough to convince the couple of top players we need that North can be a contender. Add some organic growth from the likes of Ahern, LDU, landing TT and a bit of X-Factor from Maj, plus allow JZ to play forward consistently and we won't be without a show.

Surely, the treasure chest is going to land us a couple of big fish to make it happen!
 

The Other Dean

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Really feel for the modern-day footballer. So much sh*t to have to remember.

"Hey fellas, can't quite put my finger on it, but does anyone else feel like we forgot to do something today?"
"Actually I think I just overheard Brad and one of the assistants saying something in the race about 'tackling'."

*cue a wave of sheepish grins and slapped foreheads*
"Damn it! We always forget that one!"
 

ferball

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What? It doesn't matter who scores the goals? The more dynamic your forward line is, the more avenue to Goals you have, the more difficult it is for your opposition to defend. So it does matter. It matters when our small forwards rarely find themselves at the feet of our key forwards to crumb a spill. It does matter that they are ineffective offensively. That is a concern. :stern look
The small forwards this year have played up the ground to provide pressure. This enabled turnovers and open (ish) forward lines and as a result our kpf have dominated our scoring, perhaps with the exception of JZ who plays a crumbing as well as marking forward. This is a game plan where the small forwards especially Turner sacrifice the obvious parts of their game to do a job. Obviously the coaching staff feels this is important cos they get media to highlight it all the bloody time. If their onfield job is to play up the ground and stay there providing pressure on opposition players to force turnovers that we score from then they shouldn't be at the feet of the bloody forwards trying to crumb goals.

Brown was front and centre at contests for at one of Maj's marks on the weekend and he often is. Now perhaps that is a flaw of the forwards or perhaps that is how things are sposed to happen. Scott has fairly rigid structures and expects players to stick to them. If Turner and hrovat are sticking to them and following that game plan then its no wonder they aren't there to crumb goals. They haven't been all year cos they have been doing other thing.

Mate, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? Are you suggesting that our small forwards are doing their job? The theme in this thread relating to Pressure Acts is that it's a nonsense Stat. That is because it doesn't necessarily result in a turnover. Bottom line is that our small forwards are an area of concern. They don't hit the scoreboard. They don't find much of the pill. They are hardly at the feet of our key forwards. They chase no doubt but their defensive actions aren't resulting in us being able to stifle the opposition backs from waltzing out of defence and lock the ball in our forward line on a consistent basis. Sure our team as a whole has dropped off in its defensive efforts but that doesn't excuse the performances of our small forwards. :stern look
My point is yes they are doing their job (mostly, not excusing the weekend) that job involves sacrificing their traditional small forward game to provide something else that benefits the team. Thats what they have been doing all year and there's nothing to suggest they have been asked to do something different.

I don't agree with that theme. Pressure acts don't necessarily result in a turnover? Says who? The game is dynamic and pressure here can result in a turnover there - five possessions away down the chain. It happens to us all the time.

The errors from pressure cascade up along the possession chain. We used this to great effect earlier and its been used against us especially in the absence of Jacobs and even more so on the weekend.

Bottom line is our small forwards are an area of concern because the rest of the defensive structure is falling down. We haven't locked the ball in the forward line all year, we've locked it out of their inside 30m. We stifled their forward lines and attacked off them, especially before the bye. The space suited Waite and Brown. Then Wood and even JZ and Brown and now Daw, when we get it right.

You're expecting traditional small forward play in a team that specifically sacrificed that traditional play to support their game plan.

That game plan seems to be struggling now but it was working earlier and perhaps our depth is the problem across the field not just on the forward line.
 

Zondor

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The small forwards this year have played up the ground to provide pressure. This enabled turnovers and open (ish) forward lines and as a result our kpf have dominated our scoring, perhaps with the exception of JZ who plays a crumbing as well as marking forward. This is a game plan where the small forwards especially Turner sacrifice the obvious parts of their game to do a job. Obviously the coaching staff feels this is important cos they get media to highlight it all the bloody time. If their onfield job is to play up the ground and stay there providing pressure on opposition players to force turnovers that we score from then they shouldn't be at the feet of the bloody forwards trying to crumb goals.

Brown was front and centre at contests for at one of Maj's marks on the weekend and he often is. Now perhaps that is a flaw of the forwards or perhaps that is how things are sposed to happen. Scott has fairly rigid structures and expects players to stick to them. If Turner and hrovat are sticking to them and following that game plan then its no wonder they aren't there to crumb goals. They haven't been all year cos they have been doing other thing.



My point is yes they are doing their job (mostly, not excusing the weekend) that job involves sacrificing their traditional small forward game to provide something else that benefits the team. Thats what they have been doing all year and there's nothing to suggest they have been asked to do something different.

I don't agree with that theme. Pressure acts don't necessarily result in a turnover? Says who? The game is dynamic and pressure here can result in a turnover there - five possessions away down the chain. It happens to us all the time.

The errors from pressure cascade up along the possession chain. We used this to great effect earlier and its been used against us especially in the absence of Jacobs and even more so on the weekend.

Bottom line is our small forwards are an area of concern because the rest of the defensive structure is falling down. We haven't locked the ball in the forward line all year, we've locked it out of their inside 30m. We stifled their forward lines and attacked off them, especially before the bye. The space suited Waite and Brown. Then Wood and even JZ and Brown and now Daw, when we get it right.

You're expecting traditional small forward play in a team that specifically sacrificed that traditional play to support their game plan.

That game plan seems to be struggling now but it was working earlier and perhaps our depth is the problem across the field not just on the forward line.
LOL. C'mon Mate. In all seriousness... Yes the rest of the team is to blame for the shitness of our small forwards. Or do we blame Scotts for their misuse? So what is it? Our small forwards are not impacting the contest. Now are they? And yeah you can apply pressure. The opposition still retains the ball. No Turnover occurs. Notch up another Pressure Act. You Beauty. I get to stay in the side. It does happen you know? :stern look
 

ferball

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LOL. C'mon Mate. In all seriousness... Yes the rest of the team is to blame for the shitness of our small forwards. Or do we blame Scotts for their misuse? So what is it? Our small forwards are not impacting the contest. Now are they? And yeah you can apply pressure. The opposition still retains the ball. No Turnover occurs. Notch up another Pressure Act. You Beauty. I get to stay in the side. It does happen you know? :stern look
Well it wasn't misuse earlier in the year when even Duck was rating us a chance for the flag. And we still are with a couple of players back. Its a different structure to Richmond and Collingwood.

But if you want to blame someone yes blame Scotts. Its his game plan. Make sure you congratulate him in late September tho.
 

koshari

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Well it wasn't misuse earlier in the year when even Duck was rating us a chance for the flag. And we still are with a couple of players back. Its a different structure to Richmond and Collingwood.

But if you want to blame someone yes blame Scotts. Its his game plan. Make sure you congratulate him in late September tho.
Take w80 and jacobs out of our side and we were always going to have our depth exposed.
 

SpiderBurton22

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LOL. C'mon Mate. In all seriousness... Yes the rest of the team is to blame for the shitness of our small forwards. Or do we blame Scotts for their misuse? So what is it? Our small forwards are not impacting the contest. Now are they? And yeah you can apply pressure. The opposition still retains the ball. No Turnover occurs. Notch up another Pressure Act. You Beauty. I get to stay in the side. It does happen you know? :stern look
Champion data actually keep stats that records pressure acts that result in turnovers by the opposition.

Earlier in the year when we were playing better footy, Luffy on one of his radio spots mentioned that Atley was in the top couple in the league for turning pressure acts into turnovers. If we could access these stats it would give us a better guide on Turner. But ultimately Turner had to hit the scoreboard more.
 

Grogg

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The problem isn't just form imo.

Our structure and strategies have been set in concrete and I'm not just talking up forward. Our centre clearance work which was a feature of the Hawthorn win was the catalyst for opposition coaches to pick apart our set up and they have.
 

ferball

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Champion data actually keep stats that records pressure acts that result in turnovers by the opposition.

Earlier in the year when we were playing better footy, Luffy on one of his radio spots mentioned that Atley was in the top couple in the league for turning pressure acts into turnovers. If we could access these stats it would give us a better guide on Turner. But ultimately Turner had to hit the scoreboard more.
With Turner - i'd be interested to see what our pressure was like after he got injured in that Swans game because it seemed to me that the game became alot more open and free flowing back and forth and I thought that didn't suit us.
 

FlyHigh18

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Last week was indeed our worst performance of the year, eclipses round 6 Port Adelaide and that Goldy vs Gawn game.

Sydney did worse than us so I'm hoping it was just a one off coming about from the after effects of that, most teams have had at last one horrible performance this year.

The upcoming match against WCE will tell us if it was a one off or if we're cooked
 

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