Vs Collingwood

[Mong]

Originally posted by kristin5


Finishing 4th guaranteed us a home preliminary final (if we got that far) - if we had've finished 3rd and all the results in the finals went according to ladder position, we would've had to travel interstate for the prelim. Of course we preferred to finish 4th, given this scenario (I am not saying this is the right approach - I would've preferred it that we went into the finals with some form...)

It wouldn't have made a difference whether you finished 3rd or 4th you still would've got a home prelim if you win the first week. To use an example, if the Crows beat Brisbane in week 1 of the finals we would be playing at home this week. The winners of both qualifying finals are awarded home finals unless of course both are non Victorian then the lower of the two has to play in Melbourne but that doesn't affect Collingwood.

 

[napsyd]

Originally posted by kristin5


Finishing 4th guaranteed us a home preliminary final (if we got that far) - if we had've finished 3rd and all the results in the finals went according to ladder position, we would've had to travel interstate for the prelim. Of course we preferred to finish 4th, given this scenario (I am not saying this is the right approach - I would've preferred it that we went into the finals with some form...)

So, are you saying you honestly believe that Collingwood deliberately lost to the Dogs in R22? Or are you saying that by luck Collingwood ended up in a better part of the draw from it's persepctive?

 

[napsyd]

Originally posted by ****



It wouldn't have made a difference whether you finished 3rd or 4th you still would've got a home prelim if you win the first week. To use an example, if the Crows beat Brisbane in week 1 of the finals we would be playing at home this week. The winners of both qualifying finals are awarded home finals unless of course both are non Victorian then the lower of the two has to play in Melbourne but that doesn't affect Collingwood.

Yes, but had they finished third and lost to Brisbane, then beat Melbourne the following week, they'd be playing either Adelaide or Port at footy park iun the preliminary. The logic is correct.

 

[napsyd]

At least it's correct if Port beat Adelaide in the qualifying final anyway.

 

[kristin5]

Originally posted by ****



It wouldn't have made a difference whether you finished 3rd or 4th you still would've got a home prelim if you win the first week. To use an example, if the Crows beat Brisbane in week 1 of the finals we would be playing at home this week. The winners of both qualifying finals are awarded home finals unless of course both are non Victorian then the lower of the two has to play in Melbourne but that doesn't affect Collingwood.

If we finished 3rd, and Crows finished 4th (and port finished on top with Brisbane 2nd), it would've meant that we would've played Port in the prelim in Adelaide (cos they would've finished 1st, thus earning the right for a home final) and Brisbane would've played Adelaide in Melbourne.

 

[kristin5]

Sorry, napsyd, didn't realise you already answered it for me.

 

[napsyd]

Originally posted by kristin5
Sorry, napsyd, didn't realise you already answered it for me.

No worries. But tell me Kristin5, do you really believe that Bulldogs game was thrown?

 

[kristin5]

Originally posted by napsyd


So, are you saying you honestly believe that Collingwood deliberately lost to the Dogs in R22? Or are you saying that by luck Collingwood ended up in a better part of the draw from it's persepctive?

I'm not sure that we deliberately lost, but I certainly think that we didn't make a full effort at winning. We had a couple of guys out, resting, and we tried a few players in different positions than normal.

I've heard too that our fitness advisor has been doing the same thing at Collingwood as was done with Adelaide in 97 and 98 - the fitness taper thing (whatever that means!) To better prepare us for the main goal, being finals.

 

[Mong]

Let me try to explain this simply for you both.


If Collingwood finished 3rd, and won their qualifying final, they would be in EXACTLY the same situation they are now and would be playing their Prelim at HOME.

The ONLY difference between finishing 3rd and 4th is the fact that you play a different opponent in the qualifying final.

 

[napsyd]

Hmmm. Interesting. I had not thought about that possibility. That last quarter against the Doggies was laughable, almost unbelievable. Perhaps that explains it...

 

[napsyd]

Originally posted by ****
Let me try to explain this simply for you both.


If Collingwood finished 3rd, and won their qualifying final, they would be in EXACTLY the same situation they are now and would be playing their Prelim at HOME.

The ONLY difference between finishing 3rd and 4th is the fact that you play a different opponent in the qualifying final.

Thank you for your simple explanation.

Can you please now explain simply what would have happened had Collingwood lost to Brisbane in the Qualifying final, Port won their qualifying final against Adelaide and then Collingwood won the semi against Melbourne?

 

[kristin5]

****, I'll explain it for you:

Assume these are the ladder positions - Port 1, Bris 2, Coll3, Adel 4, Ess 5, Melb 6, Kang 7, WC 8

Then 1 defeats 4, 2 defeats 3, 5 defeats 8, 6 defeats 7

Then 3 defeats 6, 4 defeats 5

It is then 1 v 3 - and Port get the home final cos they finished on top

Due to the agreement, 2 v 4 would have to play at the MCG.

 

[napsyd]

The lady is a little more polite than I.

Sorry ****, no offence.

 

[Mong]

Originally posted by napsyd


Thank you for your simple explanation.

Can you please now explain simply what would have happened had Collingwood lost to Brisbane in the Qualifying final, Port won their qualifying final against Adelaide and then Collingwood won the semi against Melbourne?

Collingwood would have played in Brisbane in the prelim. But of course that requires Collingwood to have lost their qualifying final which they didn't, so you can't really compare. The only way to guarantee a HOME prelim is to win the qualifying final and is doesn't matter whether you finish 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th, if you win your qualifying final you play at hom in your prelim.

Hope that helps.



Let me also put this to you.

Brisbane v Port was played in Round 22 to decide who finished top. Collingwood v Bulldogs was also played in Round 22.

If Brisbane had beaten Port and therefore finished top, by finishing 4th Collingwood would've played Brisbane IN Brisbane in week 1. Collingwood would've looked pretty stupid then deliberately losing and then playing IN Brisbane because of it.

And if you look at your fixture list you will notice that Port v Brisbane was played a half hour after Collingwood v Bulldogs. Collingwood therefore didn't know who was going to finish top and who would finish 2nd until AFTER their game had finished remembering that the Bris v Port game was only decided in the last few minutes.

Is what I am pointing out is Collingwood had no idea that they were going to play Port and for all they knew, a loss to the Bulldogs could've sent them to Brisbane for the finals.

Hopefully, I have made this clear.

 

[Mong]

Originally posted by kristin5
****, I'll explain it for you:

Assume these are the ladder positions - Port 1, Bris 2, Coll3, Adel 4, Ess 5, Melb 6, Kang 7, WC 8

Then 1 defeats 4, 2 defeats 3, 5 defeats 8, 6 defeats 7

Then 3 defeats 6, 4 defeats 5

It is then 1 v 3 - and Port get the home final cos they finished on top

Due to the agreement, 2 v 4 would have to play at the MCG.

Yes Kristin you are right but you are forgetting one thing. Collingwood (4rd) beat Port (1st) which obviously is a better scenario for Collingwood than had they lost against Port, which is what your above explanation caters for.

You are comparing a situation where Collingwood loses its first round to a situation where Collinwood wins its first round.

 

[napsyd]

****, check out kristin5's post above, even if the first and second team had changed I think Collingwood had a better chance of a home preliminary (win or lose the qualifying final) by finishing 4th.

 

[hotpie]

In any case I don't rate our Dogs loss as a disaster.

Losing guaranteed a home prelim if we had lost in the Qualifying Final (which all the experts thought we would) then won the semi's. Everybody seems to understand this except Nong.

We had Rocca and Didak rested, L Davis at half back, Richo at CHF, and Wakelin on the bench. Hardly our best line up.

 

[kristin5]

Originally posted by ****



Collingwood would have played in Brisbane in the prelim. But of course that requires Collingwood to have lost their qualifying final which they didn't, so you can't really compare. The only way to guarantee a HOME prelim is to win the qualifying final and is doesn't matter whether you finish 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th, if you win your qualifying final you play at hom in your prelim.

Hope that helps.



Let me also put this to you.

Brisbane v Port was played in Round 22 to decide who finished top. Collingwood v Bulldogs was also played in Round 22.

If Brisbane had beaten Port and therefore finished top, by finishing 4th Collingwood would've played Brisbane IN Brisbane in week 1. Collingwood would've looked pretty stupid then deliberately losing and then playing IN Brisbane because of it.

And if you look at your fixture list you will notice that Port v Brisbane was played a half hour after Collingwood v Bulldogs. Collingwood therefore didn't know who was going to finish top and who would finish 2nd until AFTER their game had finished remembering that the Bris v Port game was only decided in the last few minutes.

Is what I am pointing out is Collingwood had no idea that they were going to play Port and for all they knew, a loss to the Bulldogs could've sent them to Brisbane for the finals.

Hopefully, I have made this clear.

Nope you're still wrong. You say "if you win your qualifying final, then you play the prelim at home". Due to the agrement re: MCG, this is not true. One of the preliminary finals HAS to be at the MCG - this is why the Adelaide Premier was in the news a few weeks ago asking for the agreement to be revoked, because it was possible that Port would play Adelaide at the MCG.

As for your second point - we were not finishing 4th in order to avoid going to Brisbane (though we were very happy when Port won!). We were finishing 4th due to the home prelim final thing I have been outlining for you.

 

[napsyd]

Originally posted by napsyd
****, check out kristin5's post above, even if the first and second team had changed I think Collingwood had a better chance of a home preliminary (win or lose the qualifying final) by finishing 4th.

Oh, you did already.

 

[Mong]

Originally posted by napsyd
****, check out kristin5's post above, even if the first and second team had changed I think Collingwood had a better chance of a home preliminary (win or lose the qualifying final) by finishing 4th.

Tell me what would've happened had Brisbane finished top (and remember, Collingwood didn't know who was going to finish top until AFTER their last game).

 

[hotpie]

Originally posted by ****



Tell me what would've happened had Brisbane finished top (and remember, Collingwood didn't know who was going to finish top until AFTER their last game).

YOU FOOL

We would have lost. Then beaten Essendon or somebody.
Then had a home Preliminary Final against perhaps Port.

 

[kristin5]

Originally posted by ****


Yes Kristin you are right but you are forgetting one thing. Collingwood (4rd) beat Port (1st) which obviously is a better scenario for Collingwood than had they lost against Port, which is what your above explanation caters for.

You are comparing a situation where Collingwood loses its first round to a situation where Collinwood wins its first round.

My explanation caters for a finals series where the results would have gone according to end-of-season ladder position (the only way we could have thought about it before this final series began). As it turns out, it has gone even better than we possibly could've dreamed!

 

[Jars458]

Originally posted by kristin5


As it turns out, it has gone even better than we possibly could've dreamed!

Your dreams can't be very good then

 

[napsyd]

Originally posted by hotpie
In any case I don't rate our Dogs loss as a disaster.

Losing guaranteed a home prelim if we had lost in the Qualifying Final (which all the experts thought we would) then won the semi's. Everybody seems to understand this except Nong.

We had Rocca and Didak rested, L Davis at half back, Richo at CHF, and Wakelin on the bench. Hardly our best line up.

No fair nuff. I never believe that losing is good for you. Winning form is good form and all that. But it was certainly better for Collingwood to finish 4th rather than 3rd, I'll pay that.

 

[napsyd]

Originally posted by ****



Tell me what would've happened had Brisbane finished top (and remember, Collingwood didn't know who was going to finish top until AFTER their last game).

Probably Collingwood would have lost to Brisbane, then maybe beaten Essendon and then played Port or Adelaide in a preliminary at the MCG.