Autopsy vs Geelong

muttley45

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If the aim of multiple handballs is to speed up the transition of the ball, why, after taking a mark, or receiving a free kick do we not play on immediately, and take a running bounce for example ?, I can only recall Atley taking a couple, and Sammy W and JMac 1 each yesterday, and they were probably all in either east/west or reverse direction. Also, just out of curiosity, why has the Red Sherrin almost totally disappeared to be replaced by the Yellow version ?
 

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amaz199

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Another thing I absolutely despise is the on/off mentality of our forwards. Especially Brown.

There were times today we had the ball on the HBF, and we needed Brown to lead out and provide an option so he drew his man away from the 50 to open it up for a quick 1-2, but it rarely happened. Brown stays stationary and the numbers are too much for us to handle. Turnover.

When there is movement up the ground, we move because there is incentive to move forward. When there isn't, we play that awful handball play/switch/backwards until forwards start to spread and by then it is too late and we miss the target. This didn't happen all the time, we did handball when we should've kicked the ball but oh well North can sometimes rapidly ramp up your grey hair growth.

Backline was sensational despite the late goals from Geelong. That was a result of fatigue and poor positioning coming into the mix (risking the game), and it hurts to see it as a supporter. However, the backline was pretty good when it got really hot and held up to the best they could when the ball was flying in. Was nervous but Thommo being out was always going to be an issue. Durds was solid though!

Midfield needs some work. However, what I found interesting was when Geelong kicked 2 or 3 in a row, Goldy, JZ and (Anderson and Higgins?) got together, discussed what was going wrong, next thing you know we hit back at them. I think we are finally starting to see a bit of structural changes coming from the players themselves that seems to be benefiting them when it doesn't go their way. Some tweaks in a huddle to get things back on our terms is certainly showing some form of dare I say it, versatility? Not sure if they have been doing it in the past, but when Geelong got some momentum, we didn't let it get to us. We genuinely had a crack.

The 3rd quarter comeback where we kicked 4 goals from centre clearances was the first time this year, we have been dangerous out of the middle against a decent side. It got me excited watching those direct passes coming in and if only Wood put in more effort on that last one... he had a terrible game.

I knew we were a decent chance but I left the stadium in utter genuine disappointment. We seriously challenged them and it won't mean anything. Not buying the 'honourable loss' bullcrap, the game was there to be won and we blew it in spectacular fashion. We had a decent crack, play the kids now.

The season is probably not salvageable, get LDU and Ahern in and rotate. We are approaching a period of which, we need to get some games into the young guns.

Our ability to waste a season is the only consistent thing we manage to do. This game sums up our last 3 seasons.
 

Event Horizon

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The game plan is fine. We deny teams the corridor well and force turnovers/keep the ball in our 50 well and when we concentrate we hit targets under pressure by foot. It works well against Geelong who love the corridor and its why were right in that game. We probably would have won without one of Kelly or Ablett getting off the chain for various periods, especially Kelly.

The list is fine and even Scott is improving as a coach but yesterday we lost because:

We couldn't kick goals early - missed too many.
Our poor skills under no pressure cost us.
The umps screwed us.

Exactly the same as in 2015, and even more the same as that year's prelim (and the difference was about the same too.)

We've had three seasons in between and here we are in exactly the same spot with the same players making the same errors or so it seems.

Its the same **** that always costs us. I dunno if its the coach, the players or a problem that is deeper inside the club but the coach has had years to fix it and hasn't.

Frankly if we stopped doing these things by the end of the season he'd be worth extending but at the same time if we stop doing those things by the end of the season we'd have to be favorites or close for the flag (Ie not for one game but for the entire period after the bye.) And would have been in the same position in several seasons over the past 3 or 4, even last year when we didn't make finals.
At least in 2015 we were in the Prelim. At 2:6 we are unlikely to do anything this season, which is all the more disappointing, given the level of the competition. There is no standout teams this year which means any team in the finals that has a good month will be a chance.
 
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We had our chances yesterday and effort wise I can’t complain. But we would have to be the worst handballing team of all time. Not only do we over handball to players into worse positions ( there was a piece of play yesterday where Higgins had the ball just inside the square defensive side and he literally didn’t even look forward he was that concerned with hand balling backwards) but we are just terrible at it, the amount of simple handballs we miss is unbelievable.
 

75-77-96-99

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View attachment 672334

Our total number of handballs this season is 98 more than the next team - we are very clearly first for total amount of handballs. Conversely we are 14th for total kicks per game.

If that isn’t handball happy then I don’t know what is
mate your original post was for the handball totals in the game against geelong - so my answer was about the game... now u go and give me the years results instead - good one
 

ferball

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At least in 2015 we were in the Prelim. At 2:6 we are unlikely to do anything this season, which is all the more disappointing, given the level of the competition. There is no standout teams this year which means any team in the finals that has a good month will be a chance.
We could still finish like 2015 - if we win the next three we're in the same position we were at r 11 then. We could still theoretically be in a better position by the bye than we were in 2015 however unlikely it is.

Not that it matters if we don't fix the same ****en problems.
 
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ferball

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I remember when I was going for a loose ball I was always thinking about how much effort I should put in due to the coach. I always find this comment needs a fair amount of perspective. To lose the playing group is an extreme thing, meaning players are so frustrated it affects them. I think this is not a particularly good reason to get rid of an average coach like Brad. It is always after the fact you hear the personal queries over gameplan etc.
You're probably right about all of that. I brought it up in the context of the last coach - Laidley actually losing them. Or so the stories go. A few people have brought that up this year.

The reason we should get rid of Brad is because we don't kick straight at goal when the game is there to be won or to teammates advantage under minimal pressure. Still. There's a couple of other reasons but they stem from the same thing.

Our handball is okay but like nearly every team it falls apart under sufficient pressure. Our inability to ice simple chances has cost us dearly and might have cost Scotts a flag in 2015 and a career after this or next season.
 

ferball

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If the aim of multiple handballs is to speed up the transition of the ball, why, after taking a mark, or receiving a free kick do we not play on immediately, and take a running bounce for example ?, I can only recall Atley taking a couple, and Sammy W and JMac 1 each yesterday, and they were probably all in either east/west or reverse direction. Also, just out of curiosity, why has the Red Sherrin almost totally disappeared to be replaced by the Yellow version ?
Garner's awesome mark a couple of years ago ... he played on and handballed from the ground while everyone else was standing around saying "Gee that was a good mark!" to each other. It was brilliant and still sticks in my mind cos we do it so rarely.
 

ferball

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I disagree.

Strongly.

They looked flat walking off at half time even though they had the top side in every facet of the match barring execution.

They looked flat again when they ran back out to commence the second half.

They look to me like a team that knows the method is not working. They are frustrated.
That is your constant narrative at the moment. Its cos you've got the shits with Scott after round one isn't it? (and fair enough about that too.)

The method is working cos it was only **** kicking for goal that cost us the game against the ladder leaders.

That seems so obvious to me. The only reason we were behind is out of the coaches hands - at least in the immediate term. Long term, to me anyway, that's a big knock on Scott. He's had seasons to fix it. We have one of the best kicks in the league at FF and no one else can kick straight? WTF is going on there?

I think they were dejected at half time because they knew they'd they made the same mistakes again and cost themselves a game in all likelihood. The fact they came out and fought so hard to get back into the game, repeatedly, makes me think they are on board with "the gameplan" and want to make it work. That they felt responsible themselves for being behind at half time and wanted to make amends.
 

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ferball

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He's a players coach. All ways has been.

They might like him and the might play alright for him.

I'm convinced as a club we're not seeing their best.
Dunno about that. We're seeing the best of players like Anderson, Cunnington, Brown, Tarrant, Thompson, had seen it from Waite and Higgins.

This year Atley, Pittard, Dumont. Probably Turner despite what people say he held Ablett better than he's been held against us for years. Marley Williams, Nick Larkey, who have I missed? Tarryn Thomas. Maj. (Eventually.) Ziebell? Dunno about that. LMac - maybe we are seeing his best. He is a good defender.
 

ferball

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This is why any improvements simply should not be rewarded.

Over ten seasons we have:
Played some scintillating footy
Had terrible losses
Gone alright against quality opponents
Struggled against poorer opponents
Been predictable kicking in
Had issues forward of centre
Been under prepared for the start of every season

He's run his race, he's had the time. I fail to see how more time will bring anything different than what we see.
Me too to be honest. But that doesn't mean it won't happen. To me its a lot simpler than what you've listed.

Composure.

We don't seem to have it. So we **** easy stuff up. Miss set shot goals. Simple errors and poor decisions. That's his responsibility, no one else's. If he coaches again next year and doesn't fix that issue he should go at the end of the season. If he does fix that issue we'll win a flag or at least play off for one. Its that simple imo.
 

DrZaius

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mate your original post was for the handball totals in the game against geelong - so my answer was about the game... now u go and give me the years results instead - good one
... Are you being deliberately obtuse or do you not understand how statistics work?

avg.PNG


AVERAGES generally show a trend, especially as the sample size gets larger.
We are now 8 rounds into the season and this is what our AVERAGE kick - handball differential looks like.

Notice how every other teams differential is at least +50 more kicks than handballs, yet we are sitting wayyyyyyy down the bottom with an average differential of a whopping 17.4 more kicks per game (by the way 11 of our kicks per game on average are goals, which by definition you can't handball, and this isn't factoring in behinds either seeing as they can also be rushed) so we now end up with an AVERAGE of only 6.4 more kicks than handballs per game in general play.

As for just round 8 alone, surprise surprise we were the only team to have a negative kick - handball differential!

rd 8.PNG

The fact that our differential was below our average differential actually indicates that this was one of our more handball happy games for the season as well.

I really don't know what you are trying to argue here, the stats clearly show our game plan as being extremely handball happy (especially in our game vs geelong) and it makes us an outlier compared to the rest of the competition.
 

Themanbun

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Im
... Are you being deliberately obtuse or do you not understand how statistics work?

View attachment 672962

AVERAGES generally show a trend, especially as the sample size gets larger.
We are now 8 rounds into the season and this is what our AVERAGE kick - handball differential looks like.

Notice how every other teams differential is at least +50 more kicks than handballs, yet we are sitting wayyyyyyy down the bottom with an average differential of a whopping 17.4 more kicks per game (by the way 11 of our kicks per game on average are goals, which by definition you can't handball, and this isn't factoring in behinds either seeing as they can also be rushed) so we now end up with an AVERAGE of only 6.4 more kicks than handballs per game in general play.

As for just round 8 alone, surprise surprise we were the only team to have a negative kick - handball differential!

View attachment 672970
The fact that our differential was below our average differential actually indicates that this was one of our more handball happy games for the season as well.

I really don't know what you are trying to argue here, the stats clearly show our game plan as being extremely handball happy (especially in our game vs geelong) and it makes us an outlier compared to the rest of the competition.
Important to note that our three quick goals came within a grand total of 17 disposals, too. Meaning we were far more dangerous when being direct.
 

the big lebowski

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Didn’t see the game live but watched the replay last night. Thought the boys played very well. Up against any other defence and we probably win the game. Hell we could very well have won this game.

Durdin played well overall. Must be played every week now until the end of the season so we decide his future with as much info as possible. If that means managing Tazz and Thompson, so be it.

Taylor looked ok, but looked the most like a kid out there if the debutants this year. Turner down back should be explored further. Simpkin another good game. Thomas looking good. Garner and Zuhaar adding a lot up forward. And Larkey perhaps sneaking under the radar with very solid performances.

Plenty of blue sky ahead with our young guys. Play then as much as we can this year, look after the older blokes as much as we can, get a gun early pick, reset for next year.
 

Hazey1977

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Media commentators kept insisting upon North being "well coached" today.
Gives away just how much a majority of the industry is one big boys club.

The plan may have been OK, but what about the deplorable skill level they mentioned.... Is that not Brad's responsibility too?
 

hilly

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We could still finish like 2015 - if we win the next three we're in the same position we were at r 11 then. We could still theoretically be in a better position by the bye than we were in 2015 however unlikely it is.

Not that it matters if we don't fix the same ****en problems.
Lol turn it up.

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Snake_Baker

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... Are you being deliberately obtuse or do you not understand how statistics work?

View attachment 672962

AVERAGES generally show a trend, especially as the sample size gets larger.
We are now 8 rounds into the season and this is what our AVERAGE kick - handball differential looks like.

Notice how every other teams differential is at least +50 more kicks than handballs, yet we are sitting wayyyyyyy down the bottom with an average differential of a whopping 17.4 more kicks per game (by the way 11 of our kicks per game on average are goals, which by definition you can't handball, and this isn't factoring in behinds either seeing as they can also be rushed) so we now end up with an AVERAGE of only 6.4 more kicks than handballs per game in general play.

As for just round 8 alone, surprise surprise we were the only team to have a negative kick - handball differential!

View attachment 672970
The fact that our differential was below our average differential actually indicates that this was one of our more handball happy games for the season as well.

I really don't know what you are trying to argue here, the stats clearly show our game plan as being extremely handball happy (especially in our game vs geelong) and it makes us an outlier compared to the rest of the competition.

Isn't it pre-season?

Aren't they supposed to be doing circle work?
 

75-77-96-99

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... Are you being deliberately obtuse or do you not understand how statistics work?

View attachment 672962

AVERAGES generally show a trend, especially as the sample size gets larger.
We are now 8 rounds into the season and this is what our AVERAGE kick - handball differential looks like.

Notice how every other teams differential is at least +50 more kicks than handballs, yet we are sitting wayyyyyyy down the bottom with an average differential of a whopping 17.4 more kicks per game (by the way 11 of our kicks per game on average are goals, which by definition you can't handball, and this isn't factoring in behinds either seeing as they can also be rushed) so we now end up with an AVERAGE of only 6.4 more kicks than handballs per game in general play.

As for just round 8 alone, surprise surprise we were the only team to have a negative kick - handball differential!

View attachment 672970
The fact that our differential was below our average differential actually indicates that this was one of our more handball happy games for the season as well.

I really don't know what you are trying to argue here, the stats clearly show our game plan as being extremely handball happy (especially in our game vs geelong) and it makes us an outlier compared to the rest of the competition.
you made the point that we were handball happy against geelong - 5 more per quarter does not constitute being handball happy... but whatever makes u sleep better at night
 

Snake_Baker

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you made the point that we were handball happy against geelong - 5 more per quarter does not constitute being handball happy... but whatever makes u sleep better at night
I agree, but to what purpose are they required?

Going by what I am seeing it's generally serving the purpose of giving the ball to the opposition.
 

75-77-96-99

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... Are you being deliberately obtuse or do you not understand how statistics work?

View attachment 672962

AVERAGES generally show a trend, especially as the sample size gets larger.
We are now 8 rounds into the season and this is what our AVERAGE kick - handball differential looks like.

Notice how every other teams differential is at least +50 more kicks than handballs, yet we are sitting wayyyyyyy down the bottom with an average differential of a whopping 17.4 more kicks per game (by the way 11 of our kicks per game on average are goals, which by definition you can't handball, and this isn't factoring in behinds either seeing as they can also be rushed) so we now end up with an AVERAGE of only 6.4 more kicks than handballs per game in general play.

As for just round 8 alone, surprise surprise we were the only team to have a negative kick - handball differential!

View attachment 672970
The fact that our differential was below our average differential actually indicates that this was one of our more handball happy games for the season as well.

I really don't know what you are trying to argue here, the stats clearly show our game plan as being extremely handball happy (especially in our game vs geelong) and it makes us an outlier compared to the rest of the competition.
so PORT GWS GCOAST LIONS SAINTS all had the highest diff and all lost - so i dont see the point
 
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