Autopsy vs Geelong

shintemaster

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What would be a better plan?
If I knew and was capable of implementing a better plan I wouldn't be here - I'd be working for a club. It's a hypothetical obviously - unless your view is that the plan that our club has come up with is the single best possible plan that can be developed for our current squad? That's a fair indictment on the playing list if that is the case, unless your view would be that the plan is the best possible one but the players and coaches are completely incapable of using it to win games of football. Which, to be honest, tends to lead us back to the start - is it really the best plan if it doesn't appear to be winning games of football very often?
 

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ferball

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If I knew and was capable of implementing a better plan I wouldn't be here - I'd be working for a club. It's a hypothetical obviously - unless your view is that the plan that our club has come up with is the single best possible plan that can be developed for our current squad? That's a fair indictment on the playing list if that is the case, unless your view would be that the plan is the best possible one but the players and coaches are completely incapable of using it to win games of football. Which, to be honest, tends to lead us back to the start - is it really the best plan if it doesn't appear to be winning games of football very often?
I used remote viewing to forensically review the plan and after repeatedly looking at it I still can't find the bit that says miss gettable goals repeatedly and do the same with simple kicks under minimal pressure that u 14s can pull off.

So ... its a fair indictment of the playing list, the playing leaders for not driving higher standards, the skill coach and the overall coaching staff. Think how much this basic **** has cost us in terms of games, ladder position and finals opportunities over Brad's tenure and here we are with a set up that nearly beat the league leaders but failed cos of basic skills. You can blame Turner not being on Ablett for five of the 120 minutes if you like but it wouldn't have mattered if we'd taken our opportunities earlier.

And I'm not talking about the handball either - tho that is another issue, potentially more on the coach. Basic kicking has repeatedly cost us. The game is football. Not doing that basic skill properly again this weekend after so long of it being a problem ... that is on the coach primarily, especially in his 10th season. Standards should be improving not going backwards.

I think part of the reason we are so handball happy is the players aren't confident kicks.
 

shintemaster

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I used remote viewing to forensically review the plan and after repeatedly looking at it I still can't find the bit that says miss gettable goals repeatedly and do the same with simple kicks under minimal pressure that u 14s can pull off.

So ... its a fair indictment of the playing list, the playing leaders for not driving higher standards, the skill coach and the overall coaching staff. Think how much this basic **** has cost us in terms of games, ladder position and finals opportunities over Brad's tenure and here we are with a set up that nearly beat the league leaders but failed cos of basic skills. You can blame Turner not being on Ablett for five of the 120 minutes if you like but it wouldn't have mattered if we'd taken our opportunities earlier.

And I'm not talking about the handball either - tho that is another issue, potentially more on the coach. Basic kicking has repeatedly cost us. The game is football. Not doing that basic skill properly again this weekend after so long of it being a problem ... that is on the coach primarily, especially in his 10th season. Standards should be improving not going backwards.

I think part of the reason we are so handball happy is the players aren't confident kicks.
I don't have any issue with what you're saying but I still think it's valid to ask the question - if your team is not capable of pulling off the plan, is it a good one?
 

ferball

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Its not just the skills but that is a huge part of it and without skills it doesn't matter what your plan is, you won't have the tools to carry it out.

And its obviously a mental issue not a physical one cos they are senior AFL players. Their skills under no pressure or away from a game would probably be exquisite.

It seems to me we don't lock the ball in the 50 as much as some but we do try to lock it in our half or attack from the back of the C.Square. That makes sense. Tarrant and Thommo and even JMac and Pittard are good interceptors. Lmac doesn't do to badly on that front either. Maj was also very good. It also suits someone like Brown as a target. At least when he isn't the sole option. Because it opens enough space for him to run into as the ball comes back.

This year we have also gone wide quickly using the likes of Hall, Polec and SAtley out of the backline and LDU, Thomas, Brown Turner and Wood moving up creating space behind them and linking the wide switch to the forward line. Mostly that's been by foot. The movement is generated by fast movement usually from Atley and when they do handball to switch its usually a give and get thing to initiate the movement inboard.

That's part of the plan and seems to work well.

Getting sucked into contests and everyone flying for the ball in a pack is obviously not good. That's a big failure but not as obvious as it was in past seasons. IMO anyway.
 
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I got to watch the replay last night.

Even though beaten we played some damned good footy.

We matched the current top team in the comp but lack some polish.

We missed some really gettable shots.

From my perspective it was our best game of the year even though we lost.
 

RobZombie

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The method is working cos it was only **** kicking for goal that cost us the game against the ladder leaders.
FWIW, we had them covered easily for expected score. The following two things are both true:

1. It's harder to generate quality scoring chances than convert them, and to that extent the game plan worked and has been working ok for a few weeks.
2. Bad kicking is bad football. Missing easy chances is deflating and demoralising and collectively this team looks like they're mentally messed up from weeks of ****ups.

Geelong outdid their expected score by about 5 goals and we underperformed by a couple.

(Disclaimer: I don't know how CD go about computing expected scores but it would be similar in general approach to this sort of thing http://figuringfooty.com/2017/08/10/the-quality-and-quantity-of-shots-created-by-each-club/)
 

Event Horizon

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FWIW, we had them covered easily for expected score. The following two things are both true:

1. It's harder to generate quality scoring chances than convert them, and to that extent the game plan worked and has been working ok for a few weeks.
2. Bad kicking is bad football. Missing easy chances is deflating and demoralising and collectively this team looks like they're mentally messed up from weeks of ****ups.

Geelong outdid their expected score by about 5 goals and we underperformed by a couple.

(Disclaimer: I don't know how CD go about computing expected scores but it would be similar in general approach to this sort of thing http://figuringfooty.com/2017/08/10/the-quality-and-quantity-of-shots-created-by-each-club/)
So it appears we were "exptected" to nail two more goals (80 to 92) but Geelong managed to kick nearly 5 more goals than would be expected? F me.
That must have included those two flukes from the square by Clark and some of Ablett's goals from the pocket.
 

Heaps of fun

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FWIW, we had them covered easily for expected score. The following two things are both true:

1. It's harder to generate quality scoring chances than convert them, and to that extent the game plan worked and has been working ok for a few weeks.
2. Bad kicking is bad football. Missing easy chances is deflating and demoralising and collectively this team looks like they're mentally messed up from weeks of ****ups.

Geelong outdid their expected score by about 5 goals and we underperformed by a couple.

(Disclaimer: I don't know how CD go about computing expected scores but it would be similar in general approach to this sort of thing http://figuringfooty.com/2017/08/10/the-quality-and-quantity-of-shots-created-by-each-club/)
Love to know the expected scores from the * game last year.
 

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not sure if anyone watched fox footy on the couch last night? Some pretty damning video footage of Turner on Ablett, he was basically no where near him and chasing the footy when Ablett kicked 2-3 goals.
Who would have thought that Ablett would kick goals on Turner? Who would have thought?
 

ferball

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That a boundary rider could identify a mismatch and that Ablett was being given too much space at stoppages?
It wasn't every stoppage tho. If it was Ablett would have kicked alot more goals and had a lot more possessions. King identified those things as they were happening and if a coach did that this year they would be unable to do much about it because they don't have runners to deliver messages to players immediately. And its not much point delivering the message after the fact. Playing Turner on Ablett is definitely not coaching to save your own career.

You're basically expecting that Turner will give away goals against one of the best small forward/midfielders ever but should learn :poo: loads more from his mistakes than if he defended well against some spud from Carlton and didn't get anything wrong or more to the point didn't have his inevitable errors exploited. It might be coaching to save Turner's career but that's not a bad thing imo, if the coach values Turner as a player.

Considering our positions on the ladder and how **** everyone thinks we are (RobZombie's stats above notwithstanding) then that is exactly the sort of thing we should be expecting the coach to do isn't it? Develop players in situations where their development will be maximisied. It is Scotts coaching for the future not his career isn't it?
 
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Who would have thought that Ablett would kick goals on Turner? Who would have thought?
The time has come to drop Turner. I never really understood why Scott continued to play him as a forward. Limited possessions, very few goals, poor decision making and average disposal. If he is going to play at AFL level, and I am skeptical, then I can see him only doing so in one of two roles;
1. As a close checking defender who follows his man at every stoppage to shut him down and doesn't go kick chasing.
2. A midfield tagger.

He has shown at the moment he is not ready to play either of these roles at AFL level so he needs to go back to the VFL level and learn. If he goes back to the VFL and they throw him in the mid-field and he goes kick chasing then he will probably not play seniors again as he will never be good enough in that role. He has to be a role player if he is to have a long AFL level career.
 
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I used remote viewing to forensically review the plan and after repeatedly looking at it I still can't find the bit that says miss gettable goals repeatedly and do the same with simple kicks under minimal pressure that u 14s can pull off.

So ... its a fair indictment of the playing list, the playing leaders for not driving higher standards, the skill coach and the overall coaching staff. Think how much this basic **** has cost us in terms of games, ladder position and finals opportunities over Brad's tenure and here we are with a set up that nearly beat the league leaders but failed cos of basic skills. You can blame Turner not being on Ablett for five of the 120 minutes if you like but it wouldn't have mattered if we'd taken our opportunities earlier.

And I'm not talking about the handball either - tho that is another issue, potentially more on the coach. Basic kicking has repeatedly cost us. The game is football. Not doing that basic skill properly again this weekend after so long of it being a problem ... that is on the coach primarily, especially in his 10th season. Standards should be improving not going backwards.

I think part of the reason we are so handball happy is the players aren't confident kicks.
Some of the young players are quality kicks. The sequence of forward 50 entries in the 3rd quarter to Brown by Dumont, Thomas and Anderson were all high-quality executions. Even the next one by Larky to Zurhaar was pretty good as it erred in being slightly too short allowing Zurhaar to run on to it. That pivot and goal were straight out of the DeGoey highlight reel.

Agree that poor decision making and then skill errors at critical times are costing us. It was really the only difference between us and the Cats on Sunday.

It was pleasing that I thought they were much smarter this week in trying to craft quality forward 50 entries and there was less bombing it long. Brown is not a body on body contested marking forward and we don't have a genuine crumber. Pretty much all our forwards and some of our mids are very capable when leading at the ball or even running forward into the contest. The new guys all seem pretty good at lowering their eyes to spot an option or being patient waiting for one to open up. It is the older guys like McDonald, Thompson, Turner and a few others that keep kicking it as long and high into the forward 50 as they can.
 
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Turner isn't going to be dropped. Brad once again said he did a great job in his presser today.
I almost feel like Scott should have no role in selection. He is far too loyal to average players while dropping others at the drop of a hat and is too reluctant to get games into our future stares. LDU should come in for Turner at an absolute minimum and should probably have played 20 games by now.
 

giantroo

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"We've found a few too. While Ablett was really influential last week, we thought Kayne Turner looked pretty good down back.
He's got all the hallmarks of being a good defender, he's really competitive, he's quick, he's really tenacious."
 
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"We've found a few too. While Ablett was really influential last week, we thought Kayne Turner looked pretty good down back.
He's got all the hallmarks of being a good defender, he's really competitive, he's quick, he's really tenacious."
Well for the rest of the season he should be tasked with locking down the opposition's best small forward.....in the VFL!
 

SonofSamsquanch

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if your team is not capable of pulling off the plan, is it a good one?
Here's my plan. Win the ruck, get the centre clearance. Hit the outside runner so he doesn't have to break stride. He puts a perfect pass onto the chest of out leading forward who nails the kick from 40 out almost dead in front.

That's a bloody good plan.

At least, it would be if our blokes could pull it off. So, yeah. You're right. A good plan is one that our team ought to be able to use and which capitalises on the skills and abilities we have.
 
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Here's my plan. Win the ruck, get the centre clearance. Hit the outside runner so he doesn't have to break stride. He puts a perfect pass onto the chest of out leading forward who nails the kick from 40 out almost dead in front.

That's a bloody good plan.

At least, it would be if our blokes could pull it off. So, yeah. You're right. A good plan is one that our team ought to be able to use and which capitalises on the skills and abilities we have.
Sounds like a pretty good plan. For about 8 minutes in the 3rd quarter that is roughly what they were doing and they kicked four goals.
 
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