WA moving to 1 vote, 1 value in the Upper House

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JackOutback

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Sep 15, 2011
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Weighted voting has its place. McGowan criticised country votes being worth more than city votes, but I doubt he has the same complaints over WA votes being worth more than NSW votes in the Federal Senate. Ensuring equitable treatment for smaller regions has its place. That said, proportional representation is a quality voting system and will ensure a fairer representation of parties, which means the Nats and Greens are a chance to nab more seats and represent regions like the North or South West, while eliminating single issue parties.
 

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Belnakor

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Apr 10, 2005
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Weighted voting has its place. McGowan criticised country votes being worth more than city votes, but I doubt he has the same complaints over WA votes being worth more than NSW votes in the Federal Senate. Ensuring equitable treatment for smaller regions has its place. That said, proportional representation is a quality voting system and will ensure a fairer representation of parties, which means the Nats and Greens are a chance to nab more seats and represent regions like the North or South West, while eliminating single issue parties.
the report was clearly written to work out the best possible result for hte labor party.

i think it did need to change 6:1 doesn't work for me, but also the group voting tickets just needed to go in general. But moving to one electorate for the whole state really is the nuclear option. Some of the other options in the report seemed better to me.

i also think that the morons in the regions who voted Labor kind of got what they deserved. Labor was always going to do this. It just showed they didn't understand how important their vote was.
 

Pie eyed

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the report was clearly written to work out the best possible result for hte labor party.

i think it did need to change 6:1 doesn't work for me, but also the group voting tickets just needed to go in general. But moving to one electorate for the whole state really is the nuclear option. Some of the other options in the report seemed better to me.

i also think that the morons in the regions who voted Labor kind of got what they deserved. Labor was always going to do this. It just showed they didn't understand how important their vote was.
Don't you mean how important "their 6 votes was"?
I am yet to find anyone in the country in any state worth more then 1 vote.
Their are plenty in the cult churches like Hillsong who are not worth a single vote. maybe 5% of a vote, but you don't see that type of proportional voting.
Happy for 1 vote 1 human though.
 

kranky al

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the report was clearly written to work out the best possible result for hte labor party.

i think it did need to change 6:1 doesn't work for me, but also the group voting tickets just needed to go in general. But moving to one electorate for the whole state really is the nuclear option. Some of the other options in the report seemed better to me.

i also think that the morons in the regions who voted Labor kind of got what they deserved. Labor was always going to do this. It just showed they didn't understand how important their vote was.
Well being that the alternative was an opposition that wanted us to die for the economy……


But yeah its a sh*t sandwich.
 

Forward Press

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the report was clearly written to work out the best possible result for hte labor party.

i think it did need to change 6:1 doesn't work for me, but also the group voting tickets just needed to go in general. But moving to one electorate for the whole state really is the nuclear option. Some of the other options in the report seemed better to me.

i also think that the morons in the regions who voted Labor kind of got what they deserved. Labor was always going to do this. It just showed they didn't understand how important their vote was.
I don't think it's as 'nuclear option' as it seems - sure, the influence of regions becomes greatly reduced but it is replaced by a true proportional voting system.

In normal elections the ALP and Libs rarely go over 50% in terms of primary vote - it is quite possible (I'd argue even likely) in 2025 that the ALP primary vote in the Upper House will drop below 50% and thus not achieve the 19 needed for a double majority (assuming they also win the Lower House). Even in the landslide of 2017, the ALP would have only had 15 (4 short of majority), with Libs 10, Greens 3, One Nation 3 and Nationals 1.

I am in favour of these reforms even if I think some kind of protection for regions should have been retained.

Edit - the numbers of MLCs are also increased to 37 which prevents deadlock. That's a good change. And it goes without saying the end of group voting tickets is a big positive.
 

Hank Scorpion

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37 MLCs elected statewide, at every election, seems excessive?

NSW has 42, but only 21 up every 4 years. SA functions with 22.

Would it function any worse or become significantly less democratic to ~25 members? Seems a bit redundant to have such a large second body under the current system.
 

Belnakor

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Well being that the alternative was an opposition that wanted us to die for the economy……


But yeah its a sh*t sandwich.
i think they failed to strike the balance between the economy and "saving peoples lives". But the response from the electorate to me showed that alot of people don't understand why we have two houses of government etc. And people in the regions should have known that voting Labor in this election was likely to have this kind of outcome (though Mcgowan claimed it wasn't his intention and he is the god-emperor etc).

I think the changes make sense from a democratic perspective but there needs to be some kind of protections for the regions.
 

Belnakor

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37 MLCs elected statewide, at every election, seems excessive?

NSW has 42, but only 21 up every 4 years. SA functions with 22.

Would it function any worse or become significantly less democratic to ~25 members? Seems a bit redundant to have such a large second body under the current system.
its alot.

I would have thought it would make more sense to have less MLCs but give them more resources. An opposition MLC has like 2 staffers i think, once you take out managing the office it doesn't leave them much horsepower.
 

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kranky al

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i think they failed to strike the balance between the economy and "saving peoples lives". But the response from the electorate to me showed that alot of people don't understand why we have two houses of government etc. And people in the regions should have known that voting Labor in this election was likely to have this kind of outcome (though Mcgowan claimed it wasn't his intention and he is the god-emperor etc).

I think the changes make sense from a democratic perspective but there needs to be some kind of protections for the regions.
Yeah well we all had 150 year old clubhouses and 60 year old reeking public toilets - looks like we are going to have to make them last longer whilst perth builds new sh*t every time it gets a bit dusty.
 

Power Raid

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Oct 15, 2004
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Weighted voting has its place. McGowan criticised country votes being worth more than city votes, but I doubt he has the same complaints over WA votes being worth more than NSW votes in the Federal Senate. Ensuring equitable treatment for smaller regions has its place. That said, proportional representation is a quality voting system and will ensure a fairer representation of parties, which means the Nats and Greens are a chance to nab more seats and represent regions like the North or South West, while eliminating single issue parties.
Great post

Electoral reform has to be on the agenda on a consistent basis, so the idea of change is not a negative. however, I think you've highlighted a dangerous precedent McGowan is setting for the smaller states like WA, SA and Tassie, if his principles were applied at the federal level.

One vote, one value has its place in the lower house. The upper house is and always has been a different system to ensures the government has to consider ruling for the interest of the entire jurisdiction. Historically the upper house was for the interest of lords, the church and the wealthy and although this is not acceptable today, it did provide a balance. These days it is about ensuring we govern for an entire jurisdiction rather than just major CBD areas.

Using McGowan's logic, WA, SA and Tassie should not have equal representation in the senate to Vic and NSW. Essentially a federal government would run the nation solely for the interests of Melbourne.

The risk here is we pork barrel cities, stifle development, cease nation building concepts and as a result kill of the engine room for our economy.
 

kranky al

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Great post

Electoral reform has to be on the agenda on a consistent basis, so the idea of change is not a negative. however, I think you've highlighted a dangerous precedent McGowan is setting for the smaller states like WA, SA and Tassie, if his principles were applied at the federal level.

One vote, one value has its place in the lower house. The upper house is and always has been a different system to ensures the government has to consider ruling for the interest of the entire jurisdiction. Historically the upper house was for the interest of lords, the church and the wealthy and although this is not acceptable today, it did provide a balance. These days it is about ensuring we govern for an entire jurisdiction rather than just major CBD areas.

Using McGowan's logic, WA, SA and Tassie should not have equal representation in the senate to Vic and NSW. Essentially a federal government would run the nation solely for the interests of Melbourne.

The risk here is we pork barrel cities, stifle development, cease nation building concepts and as a result kill of the engine room for our economy.
For a hundred years the country had f/a spent on it. Then we had r4r - for a brief period we had a share of the wealth the regions themselves generate.
 

Bestbird

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Nov 18, 2004
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Great post

Electoral reform has to be on the agenda on a consistent basis, so the idea of change is not a negative. however, I think you've highlighted a dangerous precedent McGowan is setting for the smaller states like WA, SA and Tassie, if his principles were applied at the federal level.

One vote, one value has its place in the lower house. The upper house is and always has been a different system to ensures the government has to consider ruling for the interest of the entire jurisdiction. Historically the upper house was for the interest of lords, the church and the wealthy and although this is not acceptable today, it did provide a balance. These days it is about ensuring we govern for an entire jurisdiction rather than just major CBD areas.

Using McGowan's logic, WA, SA and Tassie should not have equal representation in the senate to Vic and NSW. Essentially a federal government would run the nation solely for the interests of Melbourne.

The risk here is we pork barrel cities, stifle development, cease nation building concepts and as a result kill of the engine room for our economy.
I'm a bit conflicted on this one as the only way Labor can have control of both houses in WA is by an epic landslide as just occurred under the current system which is not the case for liberals.
 

JackOutback

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 15, 2011
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For a hundred years the country had f/a spent on it. Then we had r4r - for a brief period we had a share of the wealth the regions themselves generate.
Brendon Grylls should be a hero in the regions for R4R and yet he couldn’t even win a lower house seat because voters let themselves be scared off by an obvious scare campaign. Embarrassing on the voters’ behalf, that one.
 

Taylor

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Jul 16, 2009
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If our representatives vote is never required to get anything done exactly how are we represented?
Regional votes don't matter if you have city support.

It's a lot easier to govern when you can not get a single vote out of the metro area and have total dominance over the political scene. What are the regions going to do about it? Ha. Nothing.
 

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