Oppo Camp WADA appealing Essendon decision

[Mad_Hatter]

The claim I was responding to also suggested that the AFL would make no decision and everybody would be doping. I just gave examples of the penalties already applied by the AFL to the EFC. You are now claiming they were forced to!!! Well they were certainly did so in order to clean up the mess made by the EFC and to be seen to do so. So what? Secondly the decisions of poor governance resulted in doping, they are not mutually exclusive. Thirdly, your claim that the AFL would not have applied penalties flies in the face of the facts, of which I have just referred to above, which is the AFL have already applied severe penalties. Some here are claiming the AFL is corrupt, or that "most" people believe that, some are claiming that the AFL will not apply penalties for the use of banned substances, yet I have outlined the penalties already applied. Now we are reduced to 'they only did it because they had to' or 'they would allow a free for all if they could'. None of which is supported by the facts.

But you are forgetting the AFL had little control over the situation, particularly ASADA/WADA involvement and the very public "exposing" of the situation.
If that never happened, there was no announcement of the "darkest day in Australian sport" and the AFL found out about it (which they HAD done previous to that) then we would never have heard about it.
It has happened in the past, it continues to happen with their bullshit illicit drug policy, the AFL is far more concerned about their supposed brand than actual fairness.

 

[manboob]

Are you ten? Did you not know that ASADA's rules are not "Law" nor "legally applicable"? No legal offenses have been found by ASADA since the case was not taken to a law court.

Your resort to abuse indicates a mental inability to debate the issue based on the facts. Shame.

https://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2013C00512

 

[vinum coupe]

I wish the afl had given Essendon another condition on the top up players.
Ie. Of the ten you take, three players can then be drafted under academy rules at the end of 2016.

That way, some 'kid' who plays in the WAFL (for example) may come over and try his luck.
And it rewards that player for taking the gamble.

 

[steady2]

...If I were Essendon,an Essendon player,coach or supporter I'd just STFU they got out of it lightly,but the stigma will last for ever.

You are probably right, but that is unrelated to the comments I have made.

 

[steady2]

But you are forgetting the AFL had little control over the situation, particularly ASADA/WADA involvement and the very public "exposing" of the situation.
If that never happened, there was no announcement of the "darkest day in Australian sport" and the AFL found out about it (which they HAD done previous to that) then we would never have heard about it.
It has happened in the past, it continues to happen with their bullshit illicit drug policy, the AFL is far more concerned about their supposed brand than actual fairness.

The reality is the AFL applied severe penalties, the rest is speculation based on opinion. I agree with your view of the illicit drug policy.

 

[steady2]

https://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2013C00512

I don't believe there is anything in the Act which contradicts what I have already said.

 

[you pick one]

I wish the afl had given Essendon another condition on the top up players.
Ie. Of the ten you take, three players can then be drafted under academy rules at the end of 2016.

That way, some 'kid' who plays in the WAFL (for example) may come over and try his luck.
And it rewards that player for taking the gamble.

You want to put pink batts in every Essendon supporters ceiling as well.I know there're mixed messages coming from the AFL but first and foremost they are supposed to be being punished not rewarded.No?

 

[manboob]

I don't believe there is anything in the Act which contradicts what I have already said.

You said it's not law. It is law.

 

[Willo_]

What about Monfries though?

Yeah but Port are carrying on like they are hurt bad by it... Monfries struggled last year, was in and out of the team and only got signed to a 1 year deal.

I suppose the sooking is because they will be a player short, the way Kochie the tool is carrying on you would think he was one of their top 5 players

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Yeah but Port are carrying on like they are hurt bad by it... Monfries struggled last year, was in and out of the team and only got signed to a 1 year deal.

I suppose the sooking is because they will be a player short, the way Kochie the tool is carrying on you would think he was one of their top 5 players

Mate if i was them (particularly a supporter ) i would be bitterly dissapponted

Ryders last 5-6 weeks last year was sensational ( a jumping/leaping tap ruckman and who can mark the ball around the ground )

It was a bit like when Geelong finally bit the bullet and ditched the idea of Ottens as a permanent key forward and played him as a ruckman and the rest is history

With Ryder in the team i thought they were a decent chance to win the premiership - say $8 - now without a top ruckman id say there a 33-1 pop

The whole penalty is way over the top - i would have given them 6-8 weeks - so they all miss the 1st 6-8 games and thats it - but it all became political .

Look at Alwyn Davey he is or was a playing coach in the Northern Territory - now he cops 12 months that is ridiculous.

 

[steady2]

You said it's not law. It is law.

The Act establishing ASADA is unrelated to the issue of WADA's disgraceful intervention to get the 'right decision' which ASADA failed to do previously. It was WADA (the prosecution) which established the international group of judges (had to be international since Australians cannot be trusted to find properly against other Australians), it was WADA, with unlimited resources which brought in a panel of 'experts' providing commentary based on supposition, plausibility and possibility as 'evidence' used to reach the outcomes. As I said such statements would not go far in a proper court of law.

My primary concern and what I have been harping on here is that it has taken three years. To my mind this is unacceptable and the AFL community cannot tolerate this type of distraction, it will kill the league. Hence my belief that another process needs to established, whether it be self-regulation or something else, three years is too long.

 

[manboob]

As I said such statements would not go far in a proper court of law.

The Swiss appear happy with it. And the threads of a cable is a perfectly "legal" and commonplace approach to proving a case in many a jurisdiction; it's not a novel idea - perhaps one that simple minded Australians may have some trouble understanding though.

My primary concern and what I have been harping on here is that it has taken three years.

There have been numerous opportunities by the players to end this sorry mess much sooner than now.

 

[Catastic82]

Mate if i was them (particularly a supporter ) i would be bitterly dissapponted

Ryders last 5-6 weeks last year was sensational ( a jumping/leaping tap ruckman and who can mark the ball around the ground )

It was a bit like when Geelong finally bit the bullet and ditched the idea of Ottens as a permanent key forward and played him as a ruckman and the rest is history

With Ryder in the team i thought they were a decent chance to win the premiership - say $8 - now without a top ruckman id say there a 33-1 pop

The whole penalty is way over the top - i would have given them 6-8 weeks - so they all miss the 1st 6-8 games and thats it - but it all became political .

Look at Alwyn Davey he is or was a playing coach in the Northern Territory - now he cops 12 months that is ridiculous.

Over the top? Really?

Should had got the full 2 years imo can't believe it was backdated with the way EFC has been fighting and leaking from day 1, let alone the fact that the AFL hasn't punished hem for their drug violations rather than only punishing them for governance issues.

It irks me a lot that the media still refers it to a supplement program, but they know where their information and pay comes from so they try not to upset the hand that feeds them.

EFC should be very very grateful they have such a corrupt organisation like the AFL looking after them rather than punishing them .

 

[Seeds]

Mate if i was them (particularly a supporter ) i would be bitterly dissapponted

Ryders last 5-6 weeks last year was sensational ( a jumping/leaping tap ruckman and who can mark the ball around the ground )

It was a bit like when Geelong finally bit the bullet and ditched the idea of Ottens as a permanent key forward and played him as a ruckman and the rest is history

With Ryder in the team i thought they were a decent chance to win the premiership - say $8 - now without a top ruckman id say there a 33-1 pop

The whole penalty is way over the top - i would have given them 6-8 weeks - so they all miss the 1st 6-8 games and thats it - but it all became political .

Look at Alwyn Davey he is or was a playing coach in the Northern Territory - now he cops 12 months that is ridiculous.

You just don't understand how serious a problem drugs in sports are do you? It could destroy the game. Players lied to drug regulators numerous times and are therefore guilty of serious drug offences. The lying itself is a major crime against sport no matter what they took.

 

[Seeds]

I wish the afl had given Essendon another condition on the top up players.
Ie. Of the ten you take, three players can then be drafted under academy rules at the end of 2016.

That way, some 'kid' who plays in the WAFL (for example) may come over and try his luck.
And it rewards that player for taking the gamble.

Isn't playing a year in the afl reward enough? Every club will watch them play at afl level and if they are any good they will get picked up in the next season. Plus if they are any good they would much rather not play with Essendon the year after anyway.

 

[Seeds]

The reality is the AFL applied severe penalties, the rest is speculation based on opinion. I agree with your view of the illicit drug policy.

Lying to drug regulators is a major sports crime in itself. It's not speculation. We know it happened. The afl had not penalised the players at all. They let them off scot free.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I wish the afl had given Essendon another condition on the top up players.
Ie. Of the ten you take, three players can then be drafted under academy rules at the end of 2016.

That way, some 'kid' who plays in the WAFL (for example) may come over and try his luck.
And it rewards that player for taking the gamble.

But rewards Essendon for cheating. No thanks.

 

[Seeds]

But the AFL already conducted their own "judgement" and Hird was suspended for a year, former Football Manager Danny Corcoran was suspended for 6 months and Bomber Thomson given a 30k fine. Along with other penalties given to Essendon including being ruled ineligible for the finals in spite of making the eight, the largest fine in AFL history of $2 million dollars and stripped of the first two round draft picks in 2013 and again in 2014. That is hardly "nothing".

Players got nothing. Afl still treating them as victims. afl would of kept the whole thing under a rug if they weren't forced by the federal government and asada to bring it to public light. And that only occurred because the afl was signed up to WADA. Essendon would of got nothing and the pies, blues and Hawks would now be copying them.

 

[steady2]

The Swiss appear happy with it. And the threads of a cable is a perfectly "legal" and commonplace approach to proving a case in many a jurisdiction; it's not a novel idea - perhaps one that simple minded Australians may have some trouble understanding though....There have been numerous opportunities by the players to end this sorry mess much sooner than now.

Well if the Swiss are happy with it, that's it, it must be the best for us down under! Threads of a cable? Oh I see what you did there.

As I said, there are no police, no arrests, no charges and no convictions. It is a sporting tribunal and the rules are directed by the sporting bodies involved, primarily it is WADA who are able to provide the judges, the 'evidence' and the prosecution. The process would not be acceptable in most law courts.

The players are not the ones who arranged any of the tribunals, it is not their call to make.

 

[steady2]

Lying to drug regulators is a major sports crime in itself. It's not speculation. We know it happened. The afl had not penalised the players at all. They let them off scot free.

If you know they lied then you should provide your evidence to WADA and get them again. The AFL penalised the players by denying them the right to play in finals after finishing in the top 8, then in penalising the club many of the players left or were forced out by the result of Essendon's punishment. But in my opinion, the suspensions are nothing compared to having to put up with the heckling of shits such as Sam Mitchell. At the end of the day it is Stephen Dank and James Hird who are the ones that got away with it, hell, Hird is even demanding that Essendon pay his court costs in challenging his suspension, which he lost.

 

[steady2]

Players got nothing. Afl still treating them as victims. afl would of kept the whole thing under a rug if they weren't forced by the federal government and asada to bring it to public light. And that only occurred because the afl was signed up to WADA. Essendon would of got nothing and the pies, blues and Hawks would now be copying them.

Players copped a lot and will be tarred forever. I have addressed this several times already. Your speculation over the AFL is a cynical opinion I do not share. The AFL signed up to WADA in 2005 and there is no evidence that previous to that performance enhancing drugs were accepted or prevalent in the AFL.

 

[Go Hoops]

The Act establishing ASADA is unrelated to the issue of WADA's disgraceful intervention to get the 'right decision' which ASADA failed to do previously. It was WADA (the prosecution) which established the international group of judges (had to be international since Australians cannot be trusted to find properly against other Australians), it was WADA, with unlimited resources which brought in a panel of 'experts' providing commentary based on supposition, plausibility and possibility as 'evidence' used to reach the outcomes. As I said such statements would not go far in a proper court of law.

My primary concern and what I have been harping on here is that it has taken three years. To my mind this is unacceptable and the AFL community cannot tolerate this type of distraction, it will kill the league. Hence my belief that another process needs to established, whether it be self-regulation or something else, three years is too long.

So attacking the people who actually want to clean-up the cheats is your go. There was a list of arbitrators qualified to hear the case put before the parties. The Bombers picked one who was Australian. I'm sick and tired of whingers like you who would prefer bodies to self regulate when it's been shown to be a flawed system. Only this week the head of one international sport was found to be taking bribes from Russia to pass their drug addled athletes. And who in their right mind would trust FIFA to do anything remotely honest. Get in the real world. WADA is worth supporting.

 

[vinum coupe]

Isn't playing a year in the afl reward enough? Every club will watch them play at afl level and if they are any good they will get picked up in the next season. Plus if they are any good they would much rather not play with Essendon the year after anyway.

Yeah I can see that point of view too.
But there's no incentive for Essendon to develop anyone. So they aren't going to take those types.
They'll just utilise the Kelly types and throw them on the scrap heap.

 

[steady2]

So attacking the people who actually want to clean-up the cheats is your go.

Nope, I attacked the process and expressed my extreme dissatisfaction at the three year diversion which has smeared not just the EFC but the AFL and its constituents. I also put forward a suggestion to avoid such future PR disasters. What did you do?

I'm sick and tired of whingers like you who would prefer bodies to self regulate when it's been shown to be a flawed system. Only this week the head of one international sport was found to be taking bribes from Russia to pass their drug addled athletes. And who in their right mind would trust FIFA to do anything remotely honest. Get in the real world. WADA is worth supporting

Well "sick and tired" you do not have to read my comments do you? Your circular reasoning does you proud, however proof by assertion is not evidence. The AFL is not FIFA nor is it an unnamed "international sport" taking bribes from Russia - unless you have another assertion? The reality is that the use of banned substances has not only increased since the AFL joined WADA, but such is its prevalence that we had Ryan Crowley taking banned substances during the Essendon fiasco, such is the contempt for WADA.

 

[The rabbi]

Nope, I attacked the process and expressed my extreme dissatisfaction at the three year diversion which has smeared not just the EFC but the AFL and its constituents. I also put forward a suggestion to avoid such future PR disasters. What did you do?

Well "sick and tired" you do not have to read my comments do you? Your circular reasoning does you proud, however proof by assertion is not evidence. The AFL is not FIFA nor is it an unnamed "international sport" taking bribes from Russia - unless you have another assertion? The reality is that the use of banned substances has not only increased since the AFL joined WADA, but such is its prevalence that we had Ryan Crowley taking banned substances during the Essendon fiasco, such is the contempt for WADA.

Let me suggest that any past contempt for WADA is rather misplaced after the recent suspensions.