You believe they are still benefiting, but have no idea about longevity. That just about sums it up.
WADA denies Dank email
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Parquet Court
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- Jun 10, 2010
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anger comes after denial..haha
i swear a few of these bomber posters are employees of this PR company employed by hird and co.
one sentence retorts all around the place
I reckon you're spot on. And I can see where people are coming from. I get what people are like. I see a team that's been improving and now coming good. You all see drug cheats.
C'est la vie
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This is the biggest question, for mine - not who should have known what, but what advantage (if any) Essendon gained from using banned substances, and over what time period the benefits remain.
Until this week, I'd assumed the alleged use would have conveyed only a minor advantage - recovering from injury, basically - and provided no long-term benefits.
But now it's on the record that Carlton and other clubs noticed very significant strength gains in Essendon players last year, significant enough to win matches. Bulking up like that would seem to provide a platform on which to build for the future, even without continuing to take illegal substances.
Right now, who knows, but it will be a very sticky situation if Essendon are seen to be in good shape this year only thanks to an unfair advantage in the past.
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As I said 90% are straight from the club and at a minimum 90% of what Caro writes is proven absolutely correct. If she made up as much crap as you do she wouldn't have a job.
blackshadow
Hall of Famer
No that's one from the butt covering 101 handbook.
Put something in writing so you can say "but I said it must be WADA compliant, I'm totally shocked it's not" wada wada wada etc
I see a team 5-0 that has been pilloried by all and sundry on the back of unsubstantiated allegation, when total capitulation would not have been unexpected.
No you're suggesting Hirdy was unethical. Flys in the face of everything we know about James.
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Such drugs allow you to train harder for longer giving your muscles no choice but to grow, but once you stop taking it you can't work as hard for as long, meaning your muscles will recede, but the catch is having gained that ill gotton muscle means you'll be able to lift more meaning your muscles wont go back to their original state as long as you continue to train, that's my take on it anyway (novice take), i think it's very likely the players are still benefiting from it.
I'll say right now they are still benefiting from it if they were given drugs to enable them to to perform a training regime for over 12 months that drove their playing list into an soft tissue injury list nightmare. You can see it in their performance now, for one.
Compare Essendon's improvement trajectory to other improving teams over the past 2 years.
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I am a President, CEO, doctor, head coach, assistant coach etc. of the Essendon Football Club
I have been advised that we need to take our players to an off-site facility to inject them with a new "approved" substance.
The players suddenly (with of course a new fitness scheme) become beasts. Bigger, faster, stronger...
Other clubs start scratching their heads thinking "there's something not right here"
Surely surely surely in my professional role, the following thought would come to my head? "geez, are we sure we are all above board here".
The old saying "if something seems too good to be true, it's not true".
If someone comes to me and says "I have a new fully working iPad for $10", a normal person would know there's something up. You ask this person "what's up with it? why so cheap? is it stolen?". By you accepting his response "no, all good, all legit"... well you chose to ignore the little voice screaming in your head, because greed took hold.
This is what has happened here. There is no way Hird, Thompson, Evans, Robson etc did not think to themselves "there is something not right here"
If what we know today is all that is needed to be known, then Essendon supporters putting all this on Dank/Robinson are living in denial. Everyone from the President, board, CEO, coaches and even the players chose to ignore what they didn't want to know and for that they are all guilty.
I have been advised that we need to take our players to an off-site facility to inject them with a new "approved" substance.
The players suddenly (with of course a new fitness scheme) become beasts. Bigger, faster, stronger...
Other clubs start scratching their heads thinking "there's something not right here"
Surely surely surely in my professional role, the following thought would come to my head? "geez, are we sure we are all above board here".
The old saying "if something seems too good to be true, it's not true".
If someone comes to me and says "I have a new fully working iPad for $10", a normal person would know there's something up. You ask this person "what's up with it? why so cheap? is it stolen?". By you accepting his response "no, all good, all legit"... well you chose to ignore the little voice screaming in your head, because greed took hold.
This is what has happened here. There is no way Hird, Thompson, Evans, Robson etc did not think to themselves "there is something not right here"
If what we know today is all that is needed to be known, then Essendon supporters putting all this on Dank/Robinson are living in denial. Everyone from the President, board, CEO, coaches and even the players chose to ignore what they didn't want to know and for that they are all guilty.
blackshadow
Hall of Famer
You bet your arse I think he's unethical.
I think he endorsed the program 100% in the belief that they wouldn't be caught because it is virtually impossible to test for the drugs being administered. It all came unstuck because Hird and Co didn't envisage being caught up in an ACC investigation.
Hird lied through his teeth for a year or so about not wanting the coaching job, at the same time he was involved up to his rather substantial ears in a Machiavellian plot to oust Knights.
Hird cannot stand to fail and when Dank/Charter etc sold him on the program I reckon he decided to do whatever it takes.
His correspondence with wada isn't encouraging.
They basically tell him they think it breaches s0 but to check with asada to confirm that there's not some regulatory approval, and he responds by saying thanks for confirming its not on the banned list.
I think there's a credibility deficit on his claims of obtaining approval from any anti doping regulator, until such time as he presents documentation supporting his claims.
jenny61_99
Premium Platinum
That was the whole content as shown on 7:30 report.
The bit you want to see is the correspondence Dank had with ASADA. This was not discussed or shown.
Didn't Dank say he had approval from WADA? On that score he clearly lied. Did he have approval from ASADA? At this stage we still don't know.
The full transcript from the ABC Report can be seen here:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-02/email-exchange-reveals-drugs-in-sport-twist/4666602
jenny61_99
Premium Platinum
How could you possibly think giving your players off-label substances, as well as substances not yet approved for human use could possibly fall within the WADA code of ethics?
This "whatever it takes" mentality cannot exist within the realms of the WADA code. Essendon were willing to push the boundaries. We are currently seeing the consequences of that unfold before our eyes.
PoppedCorn
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so if essendon are found guilty of drug cheating last year, bombers fans would say that it has nothing to do with this years performance? right??
pull the other one
its got a big block of smelly cheese hanging from it
pull the other one
its got a big block of smelly cheese hanging from it
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I don't think anyone would be saying a team should get away with injecting banned drugs.
Furn2
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Of course they are still benefitting.
2 identical twins weighing 70 kgs go to gym for a year. Twin a uses steroids and puts on 10 kgs of muscle, while twin b goes natural and puts on 3 kgs of muscle.
The next year both twins go natural and put on 3 kgs each.
At the end of that year twin b weighs 76 kgs and twin b weighs 83kg with an extra 7 kgs of muscle. He's still bigger and stronger despite not using roids for a year.
2 identical twins weighing 70 kgs go to gym for a year. Twin a uses steroids and puts on 10 kgs of muscle, while twin b goes natural and puts on 3 kgs of muscle.
The next year both twins go natural and put on 3 kgs each.
At the end of that year twin b weighs 76 kgs and twin b weighs 83kg with an extra 7 kgs of muscle. He's still bigger and stronger despite not using roids for a year.
i'm saying it with absolute confidence.
You are a minority if you believe Hird and the club set out to pull the wool over everyone's eyes and implement a supplements program (which the vast majority of AFL clubs have in different ways) which was outside the code and that they knew to be wada prohibited.
Read between the lines. It's a mistake.... A massive mistake that they will and should be punished for - in the event that they're guilty. That punishment will and should be severe.
The blood lust in here is pathetic though.
If players have taken illegal substances then i don't care who they play for, they must be sanctioned accordingly. As a lover of Australian sport this is non negotiable.
I support Essendon and if they've taken the gear, appropriate ban to aply. Equally, if Melbourne players are guilty of the same offence, the same punishments must apply. I don't care where anyone sits on the ladder, the integrity of sport is far more important than the unlucky player who has been duped into taking this crap.
Largely agree. In normal circumstances, where a club has a controversy, winning is the best response, but here it is just digging a deeper hole.
Correct, to me this is obvious...
Whilst they are not currently benefitting from having the drug in the system, they are potentially better positioned for having taken it last year.
The question then becomes how long's a peice of string. ultimately, unless they stop excersising for the next 24 months, they are still going to be in that cumulative position.
Still, i expect the right thing is that the players will be handed the minimum sanction that would apply to the offence. This would be correct given the way they've been screwed over... And for god sake people, don't pretend that these players have done anything different to what every other player at every other club does and would do. That is, listen to and follow the advice of their clubs medical staff.
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They have retreated to the Essendon fortress, where they have taken the phone off the hook, for all outside calls and messages.
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God no, Auckland has done nothing wrong and doesn't deserve to be associated with this.
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