2nds WAFL Watch - 2025 Edition

[HoneyBadger35]

How did ____ go on the weekend?

Why not consult the Alesana Player Video Database.

Resource - Player Video Database

Putting this into a spreadsheet for convenience. 2024 is still there in a tab on the bottom of the sheet. I'll update this as much as I can throughout the year. The All Stars game and our match sim against Richmond are now up.

www.bigfooty.com

 

[bzparkes]

I get the hate. He is a ****ing defender we are butchering up forward when what we need is a defender

Its a problem across the board. So many players playing out of position its ridiculous. We cant wait 50 games to get them into their best position like we did with Hough. Lets just do it now yeah?

Reid has never played defense.

Why are we calling him a defender? Shoddy goal kicking?

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

I’m a huge Shanahan fan and want him in the AFL side (in his best position as a key defender).

I’d argue that Archer was a big part of why we were so close in the Essendon game, he had an about 3 goal assists coming off contest he won against ZR - who has been a big part of Bombers defense and ball movement from the back half - was basically neutralised.

And i reckon if Watermna, Kelly or Flynn as senior players nailed their easy set shots we win that game.

So no, I don’t agree with you that we should place the blame for those games on Archer.

I see it the opposite way around for a simple reason. Goal kicking. Its such a underestimated part of being a forward. If you cant kick you need to well double your output compared to other forwards almost to make up for it which Archer wont do

Shannhan is a great kick on goal. Reid is very poor. Reid has no depth to his kicking at present as he stabs at it alot. When he tries to roost it he just gets alot of air and not much depth to it anyway. If Reids best concepts as a forward is stuff like his decision making and tap ons then to me that screams defender. You are much better using decision making in defense then you are up forward... especially in a team that plans to play entirely on long kicks deep into the 50

Id like 6 weeks of Archer at CHB in the McGovern style role at WAFL level. Its a much better use of his time then playing as a decoy forward of sorts... which is a role he probably wont grow into long term

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

I get the hate. He is a ****ing defender we are butchering up forward when what we need is a defender

Its a problem across the board. So many players playing out of position its ridiculous. We cant wait 50 games to get them into their best position like we did with Hough. Lets just do it now yeah?

On what basis do you believe Archer Reid is a defender playing out of position? What evidence do you have to support this, or are you just stating an opinion as a fact?

There’s nothing we have seen to support a claim Archer is a better KPD.

This is just a silly idea floated by WCE_Phil and now taken by some on the board as being gospel truth without a shred of exposed form or evidence to back it up.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Reid has never played defense.

Why are we calling him a defender? Shoddy goal kicking?

Many forwards go into defenders. Feel Noah Balta is the Archer Reid example of where I see him long term. Balta spent a very very long time as a forward before making that switch. I think with where we stand at present we can just make this switch now. Nothing to lose

 

[squashface]

On what basis do you believe Archer Reid is a defender playing out of position? What evidence do you have to support this, or are you just stating an opinion as a fact?

There’s nothing we have seen to support a claim Archer is a better KPD.

This is just a silly idea floated by WCE_Phil and now taken by some on the board as being gospel truth without a shred of exposed form or evidence to back it up.

What makes you think he isn't a defender? Just because he has never played defence before?

Neither had McGovern before he went back there, how many AAs has he won now?

If his strength is winning contests like you say but his weakness is goalkicking then trying him as a backman seems pretty logical.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

On what basis do you believe Archer Reid is a defender playing out of position? What evidence do you have to support this, or are you just stating an opinion as a fact?

There’s nothing we have seen to support a claim Archer is a better KPD.

This is just a silly idea floated by WCE_Phil and now taken by some on the board as being gospel truth without a shred of exposed form or evidence to back it up.

No idea if WCE_Phil said this. Couldnt give a crap if he did. I said this for a long time myself

It can only be a opinion since he has never played defense in his life to be fair. I think we gotta give it a try at the very least because its what teams like ours should do. We have plenty of time for Archer. He isnt going anywhere for the next 5 years from what we have seen so lets give defense a go on a asset we have a big future with.

Not doing this just screams laziness

 

[eagles rule]

Chess looked instantly more confident.

Almost like he thought this is my last shot

take your chance Chess and become an AFL regular

Agree he looks ready , I’m hoping his luck changes and his body stays sound ..

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Why cant people see the amount of out of position players we have in the WAFL at present? From Clay Hall trying to play like Christian Petracca

5

Christian Petracca

Age

29

Ht

187cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.4

5star

K

9.5

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

3.0

5star

CL

2.5

4star

D

24.4

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

3.5

3star

T

3.6

4star

CL

3.4

4star

D

19.0

5star

K

7.8

3star

HB

11.2

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.0

4star

, to Harry Barnett trying to play like Harry McKay

10

Harry Mckay

Age

27

Ht

200cm

Wt

106kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.9

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

2.4

2star

M

5.5

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.4

5star

D

6.6

1star

K

4.6

2star

HB

2.0

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.4

2star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.4

4star

T

0.8

3star

G

2.0

5star

, to Chesser still playing on the wing when we all know he needs a try in the centre, to Tom Gross playing forward pocket for large parts of the game, to Bazzo being the one trying to play the intercepter role when he is never going to do this at AFL level given he isnt a great contested mark, well not good enough anyway

Its just shambolic. Putting people into foreign positions to make the WAFL team competitive is a huge issue we have at present. I mean has anyone gone to the WAFL and played the role we expect of them at AFL besides say Chesser? I mean we played Bailey Williams primarily as first choice ruck only to bring him in and play him mostly up forward as backup ruck. A position he wasnt even playing in the WAFL. It doesnt make any sense

This should be the last year of the WAFL side. Pay big money and simply play outside of the WAFL. Id rather create a 6 team league on our lonesome, organise a TV deal, sponsors and simply compete with the WAFL then constantly continue with this crap. Pykes gotta take a stand now before its too late

 

[Carbine Chaos]

This should be the last year of the WAFL side. Pay big money and simply play outside of the WAFL. Id rather create a 6 team league on our lonesome, organise a TV deal, sponsors and simply compete with the WAFL then constantly continue with this crap. Pykes gotta take a stand now before its too late

Who are these magical 6 teams?

West Coast
Baldivis
Tongala
Shandong
??
??

 

[Dark Sharks]

Dom sheed pocket my guy you are the only person on the planet that thinks Archer Reid should be a forward and Jobe Shanahan should be played in defense. The only one.

Archer Reid legitimately cannot hit the side of a barn by foot. His set shots are laughably bad. You think this is a totally normal thing for a forward? He's athletic enough to be able to compete in the air and has the agility once the ball is on the ground.

Meanwhile, Jobe has an absolute gorgeous kicking action and routinely puts through shots at goal from 50m out without any issues, he also floats in the air and takes the ball at the upmost highest point... Both traits are what makes good forwards great. And by your reasoning this means he should play in the backline?

Make it make sense.

 

[eaglevision]

Meanwhile, Jobe has an absolute gorgeous kicking action and routinely puts through shots at goal from 50m out without any issues, he also floats in the air and takes the ball at the upmost highest point... Both traits are what makes good forwards great.

let’s not forget his leading patterns which you can really only appreciate if you’ve seen him live. Jobe is the last of the KPFs thst I’d want to swing into defence. Josh Kennedy v2.0 written all over him.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

I firmly believe that in almost all situations the only things that you can significantly improve in a player in regards to skills are in decision making and by hand.

It's why I think Hall can still be a very good player. He needs to get elite running ability and strength whilst constantly working on his skills by hand. If he can do that he could be an elite extractor and defensively which would more than make up for his deficiencies.

Players foot skills can get better but generally not by much and mostly with experienced players its their decision making and experience that leads to them looking like better kicks. One of the few players who play currently who has gone from poor by foot to above average is Libba and even then he generally looks to hand off if he can. It's also why most ruckmen when given the opportunity hand off to a better kick.

For me goal kicking is one of the hardest things to improve in a player as unless they are doing it as a monster out of the goal square they are generally quite exhausted when kicking on goal. Even most talls in a good side are making repeat leads to get onto the ball and are puffing by the time they kick on goal. Yes it's easier to improve than field kicking after hard running through a zone but you almost never go from terrible to good.

It's the primary reason I don't rate Bailey Williams as a forward and why I think Archer Reid needs to eventually either be a full time ruck or back eventually. Archer is not quite but almost as bad by foot as a young Darren Glass. At least he is a penetrating kick (when it hits his foot right)

It also with how hard Waterman runs, it's astonishing how good a kick for goal he is. Goal kicking is also one of those things that can be easily seen as a supporter is very hard to improve. Ryan is an elite field kick and on the run or in play a very good kick on goal. But he's dead average on the set shot.

Also for guys like Williams and Archer Reid if you're dropping the ball as a guy who is 201 or 204cm it's a long way down, your action has to be nigh on perfect at that height to get it through the big sticks reliably.

I appreciate the level of detail you went into in the post, and agree with lots of it. I think you're right that generally players become better decision makers with time as opposed to better kicks, where I disagree is that goal kicking is innate and not teachable.

I'd say the skills that can not be taught are the ability to win a contest - a skill Archer has in spades.

For goal kicking - I'd say there are 3 different elements the technique ie. the mechanics of kicking action, the routine, and experience/self awareness. All three can be improved. Even marginal gains in all 3 can be lead to a big overall difference.

From my point of view, I think Archer would benefit from developing a routine, which he appears not to have. I think he needs to learn about his kick which seems to have a natural left to right (he almost always misses to the right hand side), and he could improve the technique on his kick. All of these things are achievable.

I agree with you that improving technique is harder for guys 2m+ just because the ball drop has longer to drop.

Bailey Fritsch is a great example. If you speak to Melbourne Demons fans, Fritsch went from their most unreliable set shot in 2020 to their most reliable in 2021 - a space of 12 months.

And the stats back that up- In 2020, he kicked 22.24 and in 2021 he kicked 59.24. He improved his goal kicking accuracy from about 48% to 75%, and kicked an extra 37 goals for the same amount of behinds. He has been mostly reliable in subsequent seasons before sliding back somewhat this year.

Another example is Sam Darcy - he was considered by dogs fans to be unreliable set shot in his first two seasons. Granted he didn't play much footy but in his first two seasons he played 7 games and kicked 3.5 (and who knows how many OOF).

The last two seasons he's kicked 52.30 - a vast improvement.

Also - very early but it looks to me like Bailey Williams has also improved his goal kicking this year. His set shots look more fluid, and he has greater confidence on his set shots.

Last year he kicked 4.6 and this year is 4.2. I'd like to keep an eye on this - if his reliability in front of goal continues, it refutes your point that goal kicking can't be improved.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Who are these magical 6 teams?

West Coast
Baldivis
Tongala
Shandong
??
??

Would depend on local councils wouldnt it? I mean Bunbury would LOVE a professional team of some sort. A team focused on Cockburn and Stirling writes itself. A northern team across Broome/Port Hedland style region which you aim for attendnace from the mining sector speaks for itself.

Its actually quite easy if you just follow the money and focus on that. Its easy done also in terms of free publicity and then the ego stroke local councils will get when they hold up a jersey on the back page of The West.

W.A has a TON of money to spend on frivilous things such as our delusions. We just gotta tap into it. WAFLs inability to attract outside money has always been the issue so lets just beat them at that... its not as hard as you are making it out to be

 

[chaddy22]

On what basis do you believe Archer Reid is a defender playing out of position? What evidence do you have to support this, or are you just stating an opinion as a fact?

There’s nothing we have seen to support a claim Archer is a better KPD.

This is just a silly idea floated by WCE_Phil and now taken by some on the board as being gospel truth without a shred of exposed form or evidence to back it up.

You never know if you don't try.
We know that barrass isn't a forward from some limited time forward.
Need to try Areid at wafl level just to see if possible.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Would depend on local councils wouldnt it? I mean Bunbury would LOVE a professional team of some sort. A team focused on Cockburn and Stirling writes itself. A northern team across Broome/Port Hedland style region which you aim for attendnace from the mining sector speaks for itself.

Its actually quite easy if you just follow the money and focus on that. Its easy done also in terms of free publicity and then the ego stroke local councils will get when they hold up a jersey on the back page of The West.

W.A has a TON of money to spend on frivilous things such as our delusions. We just gotta tap into it. WAFLs inability to attract outside money has always been the issue so lets just beat them at that... its not as hard as you are making it out to be

Can you give me a step by step process in how we can get a new 6 team league going? Thanks.

 

[Donkers]

WAFC control WA footy.

Eagles could throw 50 million at their own league and it wouldn't happen.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

Dom sheed pocket my guy you are the only person on the planet that thinks Archer Reid should be a forward and Jobe Shanahan should be played in defense. The only one.

Archer Reid legitimately cannot hit the side of a barn by foot. His set shots are laughably bad. You think this is a totally normal thing for a forward? He's athletic enough to be able to compete in the air and has the agility once the ball is on the ground.

Meanwhile, Jobe has an absolute gorgeous kicking action and routinely puts through shots at goal from 50m out without any issues, he also floats in the air and takes the ball at the upmost highest point... Both traits are what makes good forwards great. And by your reasoning this means he should play in the backline?

Make it make sense.

The only one except McQualter, the match committee and Jobe himself.

Jobe has been at least as impressive down back as he has been up forward. Keeping Keitel to 1.1 after kicking 5 goals in. the first half is something that went well underappreciated on this board, because then posters would need to acknowledge that he has all the makings of a gun KPD.

Based on the fact that Jobe has spent most of his career up forward and looks so natural down back, it certainly goes some way of backing up Jobe's own comments in his press conference that he played his best footy down back in his draft year, but is more familiar with playing up forward.

Based on exposed form, it's absolutely something worth persevering with. We aren't alone in wanting to explore Shanahan down back. Many clubs were interested in Shanahan as a KPD prospect, not just us.

I couldn't care less about where Jobe plays in his first year. I personally think he will be a better KPD in time than he is forward, but he is a genuine talent at either end of the ground. I do think he will get more chances to get in to the AFL team starting down back to get him in the 23, which appears to be McQualters view as well.

I don't agree that Archer is a KPD and no one has given a shred of evidence to change my mind or suggest he would thrive in that role.

 

[WCE777]

let’s not forget his leading patterns which you can really only appreciate if you’ve seen him live. Jobe is the last of the KPFs thst I’d want to swing into defence. Josh Kennedy v2.0 written all over him.

All of the above that has been said about Shanahan are true and absolutely do we have a talent on our hands.
He looks a natural forward, but you can see by him playing defence recently he has a very high footy IQ, doesn't like to get beaten and is versatile enough to play both KPF and KPD.
The fact that the switch too defence and the coach is saying we would like to find a way to get him into the team is an indication of how highly regarded he is.

The same can be said for A Reid, they aren't playing him because they don't like what he brings.
I think the reason we are seeing Archer play more often is because we are ultimately so weak at winning in the ruck and Archer is being played KPF and helping out in the ruck to good effect for someone his age.
Much easier to play KPF/RUCK than KPD/RUCK as if you stuff it up in defence it costs goals.
He physically isn't ready for either KPD or ruck but he is competing well above his expected output and he also looks very capable as a tap ruck man.
If he improves his goal kicking, great but as other have said, you can practise and make yourself good but not great, sounds like Archer is an elite Ruck or KPD going forward with those attributes to me.
This is a huge win because his talent is obvious to see when he plays, elite Ruck or KPD great!

 

[CountryLad]

I don't think anyone's saying he shouldn't be getting a chance. In fact, our WAFL players should be putting up numbers like his before coming into the team.

Who does he replace?

I still think Hall is a work in progress though his numbers are good but there are a few areas he still needs to tidy up. I’m not sure there’s a huge rush he’s developing nicely in the WAFL

However to answer your question it would or should be Noah Long. He’s struggled at times this year. Would suit him to spend more time working on his game at WAFL level.

We have enough fwd options in Hewett, Brockman , Ryan, Kelly, Graham and Reid when not playing on ball to rotate through the forward line.

 

[bzparkes]

I still think Hall is a work in progress though his numbers are good but there are a few areas he still needs to tidy up. I’m not sure there’s a huge rush he’s developing nicely in the WAFL

However to answer your question it would or should be Noah Long. He’s struggled at times this year. Would suit him to spend more time working on his game at WAFL level.

We have enough fwd options in Hewett, Brockman , Ryan, Kelly, Graham and Reid when not playing on ball to rotate through the forward line.

I could see Long going out, Graham moved to HFF and Hall coming in. As long as Hall's not directly replacing Long though, he's not a hff.

 

[Bacchus]

Glad to hear the coach is a fan.

Chessers career was stalled in his first hit out against Freo in that preseason practice game when an opponent shoved him in a marking contest and he did the ankle. That was along time ago.

Fingers crossed he has finally fixed it.

The Freo opponent was Acres. It was a cheap shot.

 

[Grahame]

I don't agree with this.

We're 18th with a 1-10 record. It's not as if it is so hard to find a spot because we're humming so beautifully. We lost by 11 goals last week. There are atleast half a dozen or so spots up for grabs.

Dewar, Hutchinson, Cole, Hunt, Long should be under huge pressure to keep their spots. Maric, in my opinion will be replaced in that role by McCarthy if not next week then very soon, and Shanahan, Bazzo are putting a fair amount of pressure on Edwards to keep his spot.

Chesser > either Hutch, Hunt or Dewar (Johnston could too, but his performance doesn't warrant it)
McCarthy > Maric as rebounding defender
Bazzo > Cole (Bazzo to play tall in place of Ginbey who plays more rebounding)
Hall (as a mid) > Long - change rotations and have Ryan, Harley, Hewett play slightly more time forward or
Gross > Long straight swap could be easier option

I'd go one step further and say the only thing keeping Duggan in the team at the moment is that he is captain, and it's not unforeseeable that he might find himself dropped in the second half of the year if he doesn't improve, and Ginger's form wold also be a huge concern and he shouldn't be above being dropped if he can't find some better form himself.

Wouldn't be surprised if at some stage we see Grego come in for one of Duggan or Ginbey later down the year or Grego could come in for Cole instead of Bazzo.

Good to see the discussion broadening beyond my initial beef of people pushing for a certain player without discussing who they’d replace.

And yes there are many positions up for grabs but we’re slowly slowly working out who and where.

Plus it’s nice to have maybe 30 players worthy of discussion.

 

[Dark Sharks]

The only one except McQualter, the match committee and Jobe himself.

I don't agree that Archer is a KPD and no one has given a shred of evidence to change my mind or suggest he would thrive in that role.

This is the same MC that currently has Reid on track kicking a grand total of 4 goals 8 behinds at AFL level from 9 appearances (not counting how many OOB), whilst his solitary WAFL outing returned a total of 0 goals as the Beagles key forward? Is that correct?

Jack Williams on the other hand has kicked 8 goals from 5 AFL games, with his 6th game as the sub (another genius decision from your MC mates). In the WAFL he's kicked 6 goals from 2 games.

Jobe kicked 10 goals from his 5 WAFL games as an 18yr old forward, before being put in backline.

As far as hitting the scoreboard goes Archer Reid is the worst KPF on our list by a long way, at either level.

 

[Dark Sharks]

I could see Long going out, Graham moved to HFF and Hall coming in. As long as Hall's not directly replacing Long though, he's not a hff.

Neither is Graham. Therein lies the problem.

Just like Hall, Graham kinda needs to be around the contest throwing his body in and hitting campaigners. I feel he'd be exposed playing off the HFF unless he was locking down the opposition's halfback.

 

[bzparkes]

Neither is Graham. Therein lies the problem.

Just like Hall, Graham kinda needs to be around the contest throwing his body in and hitting campaigners. I feel he'd be exposed playing off the HFF unless he was locking down the opposition's halfback.

Graham played HFF during Richmond's premierships and just rotated through the middle whilst others were on the bench.