WAFL Zoning (and Expansion)

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fabulousphil

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Absolutely nowhere to another League side when Peel have failed to improve enough.

As said though, South Australia has more sides and Victoria's patronising plenty of bonafide country towns. Plus you've got the competition up in the northern states and if anything, the pathway for WA kids is a little fair.

I don't agree with this 'diluting the talent' argument. When you're the AFL, it's better to have a higher standard because you rely on good games to bring in supporters and income. No one wants to see thinly spread talent in what's supposed to be your premier comp. The WAFL, meanwhile, works well with the current number of teams: it enables a relatively even competition that allows most clubs a realistic chance to win a flag, while the standard is relatively high and the benefits for that are obvious. Furthermore, WAFL sides say there aren't enough sponsors to go around, so there's that.

The thing about getting on an AFL list is you need luck.

Have an injury at 17, a long holiday, or more important things than footy in your life? Probably out. Can't get to that tryout? Somehow miss that game the recruiter who would rally hard for you was at? There are always little variables. You're allowing more kids into the system, meaning a higher chance of exposure and luck – for AFL and WAFL teams and the player himself. You're not just introducing 35 kids from Bunbury – you'd be allowing those now freed up 20 spots, that would've gone to Swans or the Thunder, to brand new kids otherwise left to play WAAFL.
I have long agreed with your opinion that in part the AFL is a closed shop (or at least i thought that was you opinion) some schools and some family names are quite important when drafting, although i guess we could use that for any sport.

There are usually some standouts and then hundreds of players very close to each other in fitness, skills, etc , then recruiters use schools and family names IMO.

The PSA schools in Perth produce a huge quantity of AFL, WAFL footballers and state cricketers etc, far and away above the usual %
 

Kwality

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I have long agreed with your opinion that in part the AFL is a closed shop (or at least i thought that was you opinion) some schools and some family names are quite important when drafting, although i guess we could use that for any sport.

There are usually some standouts and then hundreds of players very close to each other in fitness, skills, etc , then recruiters use schools and family names IMO.

The PSA schools in Perth produce a huge quantity of AFL, WAFL footballers and state cricketers etc, far and away above the usual %
No confidence in the recruiters phil, on big bucks these guys.
 

fabulousphil

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No confidence in the recruiters phil, on big bucks these guys.
They bank on %, not sure they are on big bucks, the PSA schools in Perth which include a substantial amount of boarders ( read country kids) have a very big strike rate in terms of draft picks, when you are faced with a stack of kids all relatively the same in terms of skill, height, potential etc you start looking at background, perhaps they bank on PSA kids being more rounded than public school kids.

Of course Ben Cousins from Scotch would prove them wrong, but Macpharlin from Christ Church Grammar, Peter Bell from Aquinas etc etc etc etc etc etc etc would prove the % correct.

ATM there is around 10 players from Trinity down in East Perth on AFL lists.

Old post ..... 2012 on big footy ......some off some on since then

I know there's 14 guys from Trinity College in Perth (where I went to high school) currently on an AFL list... pretty sure that's the most from any one school in Australia at the moment.

( BTW Trinity in Perth is the only PSA school without boarders)

You've got:

Andrew Embley
Fraser McInnes
Josh Hill
Jacob Brennan
Patrick McGinnity
Lewis Stevenson
Alex Fasolo
Sharrod Wellingham
Reece Conca
Mitch Duncan
Kane Lucas
Jeff Garlett
Travis Colyer
Murray Newman


http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...rivate-school-education.958453/#post-24819529
 
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Kwality

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They bank on %, not sure they are on big bucks, the PSA schools in Perth which include a substantial amount of boarders ( read country kids) have a very big strike rate in terms of draft picks, when you are faced with a stack of kids all relatively the same in terms of skill, height, potential etc you start looking at background, perhaps they bank on PSA kids being more rounded than public school kids.

Of course Ben Cousins from Scotch would prove them wrong, but Macpharlin from Christ Church Grammar, Peter Bell from Aquinas etc etc etc etc etc etc etc would prove the % correct.

ATM there is around 10 players from Trinity down in East Perth on AFL lists.

Old post ..... 2012 on big footy ......some off some on since then

I know there's 14 guys from Trinity College in Perth (where I went to high school) currently on an AFL list... pretty sure that's the most from any one school in Australia at the moment.

( BTW Trinity in Perth is the only PSA school without boarders)

You've got:

Andrew Embley
Fraser McInnes
Josh Hill
Jacob Brennan
Patrick McGinnity
Lewis Stevenson
Alex Fasolo
Sharrod Wellingham
Reece Conca
Mitch Duncan
Kane Lucas
Jeff Garlett
Travis Colyer
Murray Newman


http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...rivate-school-education.958453/#post-24819529
Hardly a revelation phil.
In the mid 60s, Bobby Davis signed a kid on a balcony(outside the classroom) of one of the PSA schools - he went over to Geelong, didnt make it, played a few games for South & Subi, before going on to make his mark in the Courts. The person in question was not a boarder.

Footy is not everything to everyone, e.g MItch Marsh.

Didnt Cuz go to Wesley?
 

fabulousphil

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Hardly a revelation phil.
In the mid 60s, Bobby Davis signed a kid on a balcony(outside the classroom) of one of the PSA schools - he went over to Geelong, didnt make it, played a few games for South & Subi, before going on to make his mark in the Courts. The person in question was not a boarder.

Footy is not everything to everyone, e.g MItch Marsh.

Didnt Cuz go to Wesley?
Sorry you are correct it was Wesley.

And yes it is hardly a revelation, i remember a few years ago i was doing some work at Governor Stirling in Midland right next to the most expensive school in Perth ( Guildford) and we had to walk off because of the feral kids, but that school produced Nic Nat, one of the most positive role models you would come across, so you never know.
 

Silent Alarm

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Yeah that basically is my opinion.

While I'm not entirely sure an AFL club is dumb enough to draft someone because their dad played 55 games for some AFL side, I do think certain players ride an easier path. These are kids who are always played in the midfield at their junior clubs, allowed longer time on the ground, are essentially automatically given a go on colts lists... It's these minor things that could have a massive alteration on how a young kid develops. Maybe that extra patronisation in Auskick allowed him to get more confidence or learn to use the ball smarter and faster than Nick No One.

Sure this nepotism would still creep in if you have 65 new faces in the colts pool. But you'd be allowing plenty of others to apply and get that look in they may very well have never gotten.
 

Albert Ross

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Considering how sh*t Claremont are, private schools don't always churn out stars
Do you mean the team that finished on top of the ladder in 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013 and missed the 2014 finals by 1 game; or a different Claremont?

The Claremont I am thinking of has played in 20 of the last 30 finals series, and of the 10 series they missed on five occasions finished 5th.

Are you thinking of a Claremont who haven't finished first 12 times in 30 years?

There is a Claremont that haven't played in 14 grand finals in 30 years and won 7 premierships? One that didn't win back-to-back in 2011 and 2012
 
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The WAFL being a second tier comeptition seriously compromises its ability to do a total overhaul without ripping what's left of it to shreds.

If the national competition is re-structured, there may be an opportunity.
 

fabulousphil

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Do you mean the team that finished on top of the ladder in 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013 and missed the 2014 finals by 1 game; or a different Claremont?

The Claremont I am thinking of has played in 20 of the last 30 finals series, and of the 10 series they missed on five occasions finished 5th.

Are you thinking of a Claremont who haven't finished first 12 times in 30 years?

There is a Claremont that haven't played in 14 grand finals in 30 years and won 7 premierships? One that didn't win back-to-back in 2011 and 2012
Claremont does not seem to have any more private school kids than most other WAFL clubs, East Freo has Aquinas, East and West Perth have Trinity, Swan Districts has Guildford and the way kids travel to schools these days they are all mixed around a bit as well.

Claremont has a very strong zone in Albany as well.

Claremont has some kids ( now seniors) from Marist which is in their zone, but Marist is not a PSA school.
 

Footylad90

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Sorry you are correct it was Wesley.

And yes it is hardly a revelation, i remember a few years ago i was doing some work at Governor Stirling in Midland right next to the most expensive school in Perth ( Guildford) and we had to walk off because of the feral kids, but that school produced Nic Nat, one of the most positive role models you would come across, so you never know.

In saying that, Governor Stirling SHS
Produced: Todd Banfield, Nic Nat, Tony Notte, Jarrad Blight, Dayle Garlett, with the likes of Murray Newman, David Ellard, and Chris Yarran all spending time through the footballing program there. As well as numerous gun WAFL players.
 

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fabulousphil

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In saying that, Governor Stirling SHS
Produced: Todd Banfield, Nic Nat, Tony Notte, Jarrad Blight, Dayle Garlett, with the likes of Murray Newman, David Ellard, and Chris Yarran all spending time through the footballing program there. As well as numerous gun WAFL players.
Good names there, gotta admit i have never heard of Jarrad Blight, but was Notte the bloke who could never put on weight ?, seem to remember him playing for Swan Districts recently, seemed to be a Jarrad Waite type.
 

The_Reaper

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Good names there, gotta admit i have never heard of Jarrad Blight, but was Notte the bloke who could never put on weight ?, seem to remember him playing for Swan Districts recently, seemed to be a Jarrad Waite type.
Yes.

Or other pick from the Judd trade
 
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The WAFL being a second tier comeptition seriously compromises its ability to do a total overhaul without ripping what's left of it to shreds.

If the national competition is re-structured, there may be an opportunity.
Have been working on a re-imagined, top flight WAFL with ten teams, are the OP zones still up to date, and do they include country zones? I would propose a mixed zone-draft anyway, but clubs are responsible for grassroots in their 'zone' for support bases.
 

Silent Alarm

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Have been working on a re-imagined, top flight WAFL with ten teams, are the OP zones still up to date, and do they include country zones? I would propose a mixed zone-draft anyway, but clubs are responsible for grassroots in their 'zone' for support bases.
How would it look?

And mixed-zone draft? So you get first dibs but if not, someone from Bullcreek-Leeming could theoretically end up at Swans. Or worse. Souths?
 
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How would it look?
I think it looks alright so far, I've only been working on population to date but obviously club figures are more useful. Alas, I don't know where they are.

The most difficult thing has been getting the Claremont/Subiaco zones right, because I'm moving West Perth back to Leederville, East Perth to the WACA and Subi to their real home. At least one of them will probably need a larger-than-average country zone to compensate - which is why I would like to know precisely what the country zones are atm. They don't seem to have changed much from the 2004 zones that's available online, but I can't be certain. The SANFL have got their zone maps on their website, would be nice in the WAFC did likewise.

South of the river is a little easier, although Perth's should be stronger than it probably is in reality. They get the most significant council areas (Claremont has more, but of course, they are tiny), yet looking at current AFL players, not a lot of them come from their zone despite it being both large and old.

And mixed-zone draft? So you get first dibs but if not, someone from Bullcreek-Leeming could theoretically end up at Swans. Or worse. Souths?
In a sense, though because this would be a national system, it would be more an enforcement of the zone for the first pick, a "first dibs" for the next two, and then a free-for-all, or something like that. Some zones are going to be weaker (see Claremont above), so it seems fair to let clubs try and overcome that without ignoring the reality that people enjoy staying where they are (like all the 'homesick' players do).
 

Silent Alarm

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I think it looks alright so far, I've only been working on population to date but obviously club figures are more useful. Alas, I don't know where they are.

The most difficult thing has been getting the Claremont/Subiaco zones right, because I'm moving West Perth back to Leederville, East Perth to the WACA and Subi to their real home. At least one of them will probably need a larger-than-average country zone to compensate - which is why I would like to know precisely what the country zones are atm. They don't seem to have changed much from the 2004 zones that's available online, but I can't be certain. The SANFL have got their zone maps on their website, would be nice in the WAFC did likewise.

South of the river is a little easier, although Perth's should be stronger than it probably is in reality. They get the most significant council areas (Claremont has more, but of course, they are tiny), yet looking at current AFL players, not a lot of them come from their zone despite it being both large and old.



In a sense, though because this would be a national system, it would be more an enforcement of the zone for the first pick, a "first dibs" for the next two, and then a free-for-all, or something like that. Some zones are going to be weaker (see Claremont above), so it seems fair to let clubs try and overcome that without ignoring the reality that people enjoy staying where they are (like all the 'homesick' players do).
What are the ten teams and where do they all play? Is there a Kal side, a Northern Territory side?

In my alternate history of hope, where all three state leagues are pretty much similar, and there's periods where it's clear one comp is stronger, or whatever, as it was until '89, '90 or so, it'd be:

Twenty rounds, home and away one each and then a constantly rolling third fixture to give 10 home and away matches.

Optus Stadium would exist as is, having the odd soccer and rugby as it does, with it obviously hosting every Grand Final. Unsure if finals are played at each club's actual home or at Optus but you'd imagine they'd be at Optus too.

Curious about the ovals though. You'd imagine basically every team is mandated to play at Optus at some point. Peel Pirates would probably have a good stadium down there due to the start-up club and the flux politics. I'm thinking 24,000, even 30,000. Subi, Claremont, Perth would probably play all their matches at the new ground but have their training facilities in heartlands. Swans and West Perth probably trying as hard as possible to play as much as possible at Bassendean Oval and Leederville Oval but would be bent into games at Optus, or possibly the WACA Ground, which I see as East Perth's home base which they share with the WACA (28,000). Fremantle Oval is a lock for both Souths and Old Easts, but I imagine the latter would have relocated to a training facility in Murdoch.

West Perth would have moved to Joondalup as and when they did, name change and all, but I'd imagine there'd be an ultimatum to become the 'Leederville Falcons.' Vote called, not worth it, move back down and revert to being the Cardies. Perth would've trained at Curtin Uni for a while. One club makes a bold move to try and play 4-5 'away' games at the one regional venue, whether that's in the Territory or Kalgoorlie I don't know.

I could imagine one of the big three leagues would have jumped on Friday/Thursday/Sunday night footy at some stage as well, possibly with an implied agreement that one 'owns' one each, with that generally being the game of the round that's broadcast into all other areas.

State of Origin is played at a mandated bye week across all comps in July. A Champions League-style tournament is a night comp either strictly knockout in the pre-season (consisting 16 teams), as a carnival-type event held in the one place, rotated yearly. Or, it's a mid-week one ala the UEFA Champions League with groups and then knock-outs on Tuesday/Wednesday nights (possibly 12 teams, going to a final 6 finals system).

Reserves is probably defunct, having been thrown away very recently. The Sunday League would exist. Players would go back to their junior clubs or even country clubs. I'd imagine you'd have a senior list of 35, a supplementary of 25, and 30 colts players who are also eligible to be called up.
 
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What are the ten teams and where do they all play? Is there a Kal side, a Northern Territory side?

In my alternate history of hope, where all three state leagues are pretty much similar, and there's periods where it's clear one comp is stronger, or whatever, as it was until '89, '90 or so, it'd be:

Twenty rounds, home and away one each and then a constantly rolling third fixture to give 10 home and away matches.

Optus Stadium would exist as is, having the odd soccer and rugby as it does, with it obviously hosting every Grand Final. Unsure if finals are played at each club's actual home or at Optus but you'd imagine they'd be at Optus too.

Curious about the ovals though. You'd imagine basically every team is mandated to play at Optus at some point. Peel Pirates would probably have a good stadium down there due to the start-up club and the flux politics. I'm thinking 24,000, even 30,000. Subi, Claremont, Perth would probably play all their matches at the new ground but have their training facilities in heartlands. Swans and West Perth probably trying as hard as possible to play as much as possible at Bassendean Oval and Leederville Oval but would be bent into games at Optus, or possibly the WACA Ground, which I see as East Perth's home base which they share with the WACA (28,000). Fremantle Oval is a lock for both Souths and Old Easts, but I imagine the latter would have relocated to a training facility in Murdoch.

West Perth would have moved to Joondalup as and when they did, name change and all, but I'd imagine there'd be an ultimatum to become the 'Leederville Falcons.' Vote called, not worth it, move back down and revert to being the Cardies. Perth would've trained at Curtin Uni for a while. One club makes a bold move to try and play 4-5 'away' games at the one regional venue, whether that's in the Territory or Kalgoorlie I don't know.

I could imagine one of the big three leagues would have jumped on Friday/Thursday/Sunday night footy at some stage as well, possibly with an implied agreement that one 'owns' one each, with that generally being the game of the round that's broadcast into all other areas.

State of Origin is played at a mandated bye week across all comps in July. A Champions League-style tournament is a night comp either strictly knockout in the pre-season (consisting 16 teams), as a carnival-type event held in the one place, rotated yearly. Or, it's a mid-week one ala the UEFA Champions League with groups and then knock-outs on Tuesday/Wednesday nights (possibly 12 teams, going to a final 6 finals system).

Reserves is probably defunct, having been thrown away very recently. The Sunday League would exist. Players would go back to their junior clubs or even country clubs. I'd imagine you'd have a senior list of 35, a supplementary of 25, and 30 colts players who are also eligible to be called up.
This is similar to my vision. I have been toying with a two division league for Victoria, with five regional teams (inc Geelong). Go home factor is just as relevant for them, after all, and they have both double the population and double the draft input. In terms of currently listed AFL players and population, each state would have close to equal numbers spread across their state teams.

My tenth team is in Joondalup (practically speaking, the structure of West Coast could move itself there and call itself the Joondalup Eagles and probably not do too badly - they'd get a few players from Sorrento, by my reckoning, which is in the City of Joondalup. Fremantle and Peel would also merge, which I think everyone realises actually makes a lot of sense). The other nine remain where they are, although I agree that at least East Freo Oval is in need of some work. The problem is that there aren't many other places they could plonk a 20,000 seater. On the plus side, their zones are ridiculous - City of Melville + City of Canning + Mid-West = win. Population wise they would have to be the smallest, even with the mixed zone/draft, just to account for the strength of their junior clubs.

Just from currently listed AFL players that have played a decent number of games, they'd have Chris Masten, David Swallow, Jason Johannisen, Elliot Yeo, Sam Menegola, Tim Kelly, Brad Sheppard, Brandon Matera, Cale Hooker, Alex Fasolo, Patrick Cripps, Jamie Cripps, Jaeger O'Meara, Jack Martin, Josh Kennedy, Harry Taylor, Paddy Ryder and Liam Ryan.

I have every team playing a handful of 'match of the round' games, which would be at Perth Stadium. 18 round season, top four, winner and runner up play against SANFL and VFL winner/runner up to determine national premier in September. State of Origin fits in somewhere. I don't like the idea of playing extra matches during the week, which is why I think the September national premiership is important: it provides that interstate/club competition, and it means something. It's the ultimate prize, the successor to the current AFL premiership.
 

Silent Alarm

sack Lyon
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This is similar to my vision. I have been toying with a two division league for Victoria, with five regional teams (inc Geelong). Go home factor is just as relevant for them, after all, and they have both double the population and double the draft input. In terms of currently listed AFL players and population, each state would have close to equal numbers spread across their state teams.

My tenth team is in Joondalup (practically speaking, the structure of West Coast could move itself there and call itself the Joondalup Eagles and probably not do too badly - they'd get a few players from Sorrento, by my reckoning, which is in the City of Joondalup. Fremantle and Peel would also merge, which I think everyone realises actually makes a lot of sense). The other nine remain where they are, although I agree that at least East Freo Oval is in need of some work. The problem is that there aren't many other places they could plonk a 20,000 seater. On the plus side, their zones are ridiculous - City of Melville + City of Canning + Mid-West = win. Population wise they would have to be the smallest, even with the mixed zone/draft, just to account for the strength of their junior clubs.

Just from currently listed AFL players that have played a decent number of games, they'd have Chris Masten, David Swallow, Jason Johannisen, Elliot Yeo, Sam Menegola, Tim Kelly, Brad Sheppard, Brandon Matera, Cale Hooker, Alex Fasolo, Patrick Cripps, Jamie Cripps, Jaeger O'Meara, Jack Martin, Josh Kennedy, Harry Taylor, Paddy Ryder and Liam Ryan.

I have every team playing a handful of 'match of the round' games, which would be at Perth Stadium. 18 round season, top four, winner and runner up play against SANFL and VFL winner/runner up to determine national premier in September. State of Origin fits in somewhere. I don't like the idea of playing extra matches during the week, which is why I think the September national premiership is important: it provides that interstate/club competition, and it means something. It's the ultimate prize, the successor to the current AFL premiership.
You're talking about this coming in post-Eagles/Dockers? I mean instead of.
 

kranger

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I've uploaded a list of metro zones for the WAFL. The reason I'm bringing this up is to have a domain for an on-going and probably forever going debate regarding districts and ownerships. These screenshots are from a 2009 pdf but 90% of the information is right on, with only marginal changes and alterations coming up.

These images might be low resolution or constantly changing in shape, but they're ripped from a document. I can't be bothered sourcing the precise boundaries on maps, and these illustrate the zones.

The WAFC operates from a 'spoke' model in terms of the metro area – essentially dichotomising the urban sprawl. Established areas and growth areas are taken into account. For example, West Perth have the north (near where they play, up in Joondalup) and Peel have the whole Peel and lower region. This is unlike Claremont with their comfortable inner-city areas. Speaking of which, the Tiges have the plushy golden triangle while South Fremantle and Swans have the biggest area in terms of participation but the lowest in terms of socio-economics.

View attachment 100934
Claremont Tigers
View attachment 100922

Perth Demons
View attachment 100923

East Fremantle
View attachment 100924

East Perth
View attachment 100926

Peel Thunder
View attachment 100927

South Fremantle
View attachment 100928

Subiaco Lions
View attachment 100929

Swan Districts
View attachment 100930

West Perth
View attachment 100932
I was looking at the WAFC Facilities Strategic Plan, and found some updated zoning for the WAFL teams in Perth. They seem a bit different from the zones quoted from 2015. I thought I would share.


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