WAKE UP

[Mahlepi]

Yes, but in inferior years, too. Hawthorn 2008, St.Kilda 2009 and Collingwood 2011 would have all won flags in most other years. Can't say the same of Freo, WCE and Sydney.

Three flags in five years is pretty elite. Besides, the attitude of supporters on forums has stuff-all to do with the way the club is run (if that's what you're inferring).

3 years in 5 years was not elite. The talent in those sides was elite, and bar for collingwood blowing up for MM we would have ended up with 2 flags
we did well, but lets live in the past

My commentary was about events subsequent to that time, but i am sure we can discuss the 1960s and 1970s

 

[iameviljez]

3 years in 5 years was not elite. The talent in those sides was elite, and bar for collingwood blowing up for MM we would have ended up with 2 flags
we did well, but lets live in the past

The odds of winning three flags in five years, in a statistically even competition (and yes, I know it's not statistically even) is just over 0.2%. I'd call that pretty elite.

There aren't many sides who won three flags in such a short period - Hawthorn, Brisbane, 80s Hawthorn, Carlton 79-82. It's elite, IMO.

 

[Mahlepi]

The odds of winning three flags in five years, in a statistically even competition (and yes, I know it's not statistically even) is just over 0.2%. I'd call that pretty elite.

There aren't many sides who won three flags in such a short period - Hawthorn, Brisbane, 80s Hawthorn, Carlton 79-82. It's elite, IMO.

i think you will be surprised, i dont think history will show that record as being elite
our football style and squad was elite

 

[Footy Smarts]

This is revisionist nonsense for the most part. Apart from the fact is is filled with factual inaccuracies (pick 20 for Ablett is incorrect, one of the big problems was that Caddy wasn't "dependable" at all, etc) you could also do this for any recent premiership team. Look at some of the spuds Richmond and the Dogs have traded for in the past decade. Hampson is very comparable to McIntosh. Taylor Hunt was a superstar. Tom Boyd is barely AFL standard and they gave up their AA captain and a very high pick. Every team has some misses and some hits.

The recruiting of injured players is an easy out but doesn't stand up to the most basic scrutiny. If we refused to bring in players with an injury history Joel Selwood would never have been picked up. Many of the guys who've suffered bad injuries had no injury history. And of course if a guy like Scott Selwood had never been injured we never would've got him for free. Considering he's been very good when fit and played finals both years I don't see how anyone could consider his recruitment (for free no less) a failure.

The real question is why have we performed so well in the H&A season and then not produced come finals. Our list has been very comparable to the last 2 premiers and we had MCG qualifying finals. But we didn't perform. Whether that's poor planning, bad luck with fitness, mental weakness or what I'm not completely sure. But that's where we need to improve. Our recruitment and development has generally been very good which is proven by our consistently high H&A finishes. But sure keep those caps lock titles going and screaming at people to wake up and smell the bullshit you're selling.

 

[Mahlepi]

This is revisionist nonsense for the most part. Apart from the fact is is filled with factual inaccuracies (pick 20 for Ablett is incorrect, one of the big problems was that Caddy wasn't "dependable" at all, etc) you could also do this for any recent premiership team. Look at some of the spuds Richmond and the Dogs have traded for in the past decade. Hampson is very comparable to McIntosh. Taylor Hunt was a superstar. Tom Boyd is barely AFL standard and they gave up their AA captain and a very high pick. Every team has some misses and some hits.

The recruiting of injured players is an easy out but doesn't stand up to the most basic scrutiny. If we refused to bring in players with an injury history Joel Selwood would never have been picked up. Many of the guys who've suffered bad injuries had no injury history. And of course if a guy like Scott Selwood had never been injured we never would've got him for free. Considering he's been very good when fit and played finals both years I don't see how anyone could consider his recruitment (for free no less) a failure.

The real question is why have we performed so well in the H&A season and then not produced come finals. Our list has been very comparable to the last 2 premiers and we had MCG qualifying finals. But we didn't perform. Whether that's poor planning, bad luck with fitness, mental weakness or what I'm not completely sure. But that's where we need to improve. Our recruitment and development has generally been very good which is proven by our consistently high H&A finishes. But sure keep those caps lock titles going and screaming at people to wake up and smell the bullshit you're selling.

your example is a delisted free agent - seriously why bother reading the rest of your reply
Gold Coast gave up Ablett, a Round 2 pick (24) and a 2018 Round 4 pick, while the Cats gave up an end of Round 1 pick (19) and a 2018 Round 2 pick.

Do our sub 20 picks stand up to scrutiny - NO NO NO

 

[Footy Smarts]

your example is a delisted free agent - seriously why bother reading the rest of your reply
Gold Coast gave up Ablett, a Round 2 pick (24) and a 2018 Round 4 pick, while the Cats gave up an end of Round 1 pick (19) and a 2018 Round 2 pick.

Do our sub 20 picks stand up to scrutiny - NO NO NO

Well thank you for actually presenting the real trade rather than "Ablett for pick 20" which it wasn't. We got Ablett and Kelly for pick 19 and a downgrade from early 30s to late 50s this year (because of FS we likely wouldn't have been able to use the early 30s pick anyway). Given their performances so far this year that's a massive, massive win for us. Your number 1 example of a bad trade was a clear win for us that you lied about to make sound like a loss. Sorry but I'm not going to "wake up" to your delusional bullshit when even clear wins are designated as losses.

 

[Catscatscats]

Sorry bud... But its half a hindsight piece, who plays now and your take on how we should play.
Trades we made but none on trades we didn't make. Mmm...
Drafting on who we did and didn't draft. WOW thats easy ... NOW.
Really its like talking about my punting and investment choices i've made in the past 40 years in real estate, shares, jobs and bloody nags.
I won heaps and lost heaps... but thats life.
I stopped wasting my time on what ifs, buts and only ifs.
That i leave to my teenage kids, coz thats what they do.
As for you saying the Club having to be up front and honest made me spill my beer... FFS.
It's a footy club. A sporting club. they make good and bad decisions all the time. Like they ALL do.
Me, I'm just rapt I saw first hand the greatest period of our clubs history.
2007-2013. 6 Prelims 4 GF 3 Flags just in front of another great era of 1989-1995 5 Prelims 4 GF 0 Flags
and the third being 1980-81 teams 2 Prelims.
Don't be greedy enjoy the great times coz the shit times will come as well.
They aren't much fun but as they say... It's CHARACTER BUILDING!!
Glad u got to vent though... hope it helped. Me, i just drink beer.
Cheers mate! GO CATTERS!!!

GCL solid post and agree with it word for word .enjoy them beers my man

 

[iameviljez]

i think you will be surprised, i dont think history will show that record as being elite
our football style and squad was elite

Mm, those sides come around once a decade. That's elite for mine.

Besides, I feel that we were the best side for three years ('07, '08 and '11) in an incredibly competitive era for the competition - three flags was pretty just reward IMO. If anything, the flags we missed out on were '05 and '06 through failing to click any earlier, and pinch one a la Hawthorn 2008.

 

[Mahlepi]

Well thank you for actually presenting the real trade rather than "Ablett for pick 20" which it wasn't. We got Ablett and Kelly for pick 19 and a downgrade from early 30s to late 50s this year (because of FS we likely wouldn't have been able to use the early 30s pick anyway). Given their performances so far this year that's a massive, massive win for us. Your number 1 example of a bad trade was a clear win for us that you lied about to make sound like a loss. Sorry but I'm not going to "wake up" to your delusional bullshit when even clear wins are designated as losses.

i assume you cant read. We gave up pick 19 and a 2018 round 2 pick for ablett and a round 2 pick in 2017 (the rest is chump change)
So we traded him for what could be pick 19 depending on how the round 2 falls.

yes, i stand corrected. we gave up 2 good picks for ablett and 1 pick
it was NOT just a pick downgrade. maybe change your name as you are clearly showing poor form.

 

[Mahlepi]

Mm, those sides come around once a decade. That's elite for mine.

Besides, I feel that we were the best side for three years ('07, '08 and '11) in an incredibly competitive era for the competition - three flags was pretty just reward IMO. If anything, the flags we missed out on were '05 and '06 through failing to click any earlier, and pinch one a la Hawthorn 2008.

2011 was the pies year, they imploded

 

[iameviljez]

2011 was the pies year, they imploded

They were excellent and didn't implode IMO - they ran out of legs, and we were the one side that they couldn't handle, because we were the one team with the ability to match them for midfield grunt. Halfway through the season they were standouts, but we were better from then.

I still reckon they're the best runner-up side in a season that didn't lose in an upset that I could think of.

 

[Mahlepi]

They were excellent and didn't implode IMO - they ran out of legs, and we were the one side that they couldn't handle, because we were the one team with the ability to match them for midfield grunt. Halfway through the season they were standouts, but we were better from then.

I still reckon they're the best runner-up side in a season that didn't lose in an upset that I could think of.

nup, the saints of 2009

 

[cynical]

3 flags was a good effort, with a bit of luck (or some better decisions) it would have been 5

The bad trades have just pushed the rebuild back further, we topped up to lose finals and now our list is a mess. Some good decisions at the end of 2013 and we would be in a decent position now (lower on the ladder but with better kids).

All we can do is wait until we hit rock bottom and hope the club gets ruthless again instead of giving old players long contracts, topping up, wasting a decent pick on a favourite son who walked out for money and sticking with a snake oil salesman coach.

 

[Footy Smarts]

i assume you cant read. We gave up pick 19 and a 2018 round 2 pick for ablett and a round 2 pick in 2017 (the rest is chump change)
So we traded him for what could be pick 19 depending on how the round 2 falls.

So now you're ignoring what we got back and criticising the trade based on what we would've given up if we'd got the wooden spoon this year. Considering we're in terrible form, had shocking injuries and are still sitting 6th I'm not sure the "but what it we finished 18th" is a reasonable argument. I also like how you use the present tense too. Ignoring the fact that even if we lose every game from here by 100+ points we won't finish last since we've got 6 wins already.

And the best bit? Even under this worse case can't actually happen scenario, your choice for worst trade is still a clear win for us (Kelly, Ablett and pick ~60 for 2x pick 19)!

 

[iameviljez]

3 flags was a good effort, with a bit of luck (or some better decisions) it would have been 5

Five?!? The last side to win five flags in an era would have been Melbourne... and that was over fifty years ago, in a twelve-team comp.

 

[Mahlepi]

So now you're ignoring what we got back and criticising the trade based on what we would've given up if we'd got the wooden spoon this year. Considering we're in terrible form, had shocking injuries and are still sitting 6th I'm not sure the "but what it we finished 18th" is a reasonable argument. I also like how you use the present tense too. Ignoring the fact that even if we lose every game from here by 100+ points we won't finish last since we've got 6 wins already.

And the best bit? Even under this worse case can't actually happen scenario, your choice for worst trade is still a clear win for us (Kelly, Ablett and pick ~60 for 2x pick 19)!

Your quote was that we received ablett for a pick downgrade, which is simply not true
we effectively traded pick 19 and say pick 30 (2018 in a strong draft) for ablett and pick 24 (in a weak draft)
so ablett will be gone potentially at the end of this year
by no measure was this trade a win
but continue on

 

[Mahlepi]

Five?!? The last side to win five flags in an era would have been Melbourne... and that was over fifty years ago, in a twelve-team comp.

but that is how good we were
that was a mega squad

 

[Footy Smarts]

Your quote was that we received ablett for a pick downgrade, which is simply not true

Once again resorting to lies to try and win an argument. Pretty sad but it's hardly the first time.

We got Ablett and Kelly for pick 19 and a downgrade from early 30s to late 50s this year (because of FS we likely wouldn't have been able to use the early 30s pick anyway).

 

[Mahlepi]

Once again resorting to lies to try and win an argument. Pretty sad but it's hardly the first time.

ok champ, as you please
you believe that ablett has had a stellar year

 

[Footy Smarts]

ok champ, as you please
you believe that ablett has had a stellar year

Another post, another lie. You're nothing if not consistent. No I don't think Ablett's had a stellar year. I think he's been poor by his standards which is pretty solid by most players standards.

 

[Mahlepi]

Another post, another lie. You're nothing if not consistent. No I don't think Ablett's had a stellar year. I think he's been poor by his standards which is pretty solid by most players standards.

so trading pick whatever suits your narrative for his average performance is a massive fail so far, given if he continues on current form this is his last year

 

[iameviljez]

but that is how good we were
that was a mega squad

We were, IMO, one star tall forward off being a mega-squad. Other teams that good had J. Brown, Brereton/Dunstall, Roughead/Franklin. Mooney was good, but not great like those other names mentioned - while Hawkins came good after we won flags.

 

[Mahlepi]

We were, IMO, one star tall forward off being a mega-squad. Other teams that good had J. Brown, Brereton/Dunstall, Roughead/Franklin. Mooney was good, but not great like those other names mentioned - while Hawkins came good after we won flags.

one selfish ablett could have solved the issue, but chose to be a builder

 

[iameviljez]

one selfish ablett could have solved the issue, but chose to be a builder

Can't blame him. He decided that professional footy wasn't for him, and fair enough. It's a fair bit of scrutiny and sacrifice.

 

[Mahlepi]

Can't blame him. He decided that professional footy wasn't for him, and fair enough. It's a fair bit of scrutiny and sacrifice.

no, but then he kept putting his hand out for pay cheques
so he cant have it both ways

anyway