Walsh to Collingwood?

[D23D]

I said meh. My Collingwood partner said FFS. And there you have this move.

He'll probably do his calf soon after getting there too

 

[theboyfrombalga]

I said meh. My Collingwood partner said FFS. And there you have this move.

Yes I'm sure you and your "partner" are experts in what constitutes a quality football manager. It's somewhat surprising that Messrs McGuire and Pert failed to consult you prior to appointing Walsh.
In his most recent stint at North, the club played in 3 successive finals series and back-to-back preliminary finals. His previous record speaks for itself.

 

[King Corey]

Yes I'm sure you and your "partner" are experts in what constitutes a quality football manager. It's somewhat surprising that Messrs McGuire and Pert failed to consult you prior to appointing Walsh.
In his most recent stint at North, the club played in 3 successive finals series and back-to-back preliminary finals. His previous record speaks for itself.

What % of success for reaching finals and % of failure for not winning a premiership in that time should be attributed to Walsh then?

Sidenote: I also always suspected H2H was a lone wolf masquerading as part of a couple. Good that you've called this out with the crafty use of " ".

 

[Kimbo]

Yes I'm sure you and your "partner" are experts in what constitutes a quality football manager. It's somewhat surprising that Messrs McGuire and Pert failed to consult you prior to appointing Walsh.
In his most recent stint at North, the club played in 3 successive finals series and back-to-back preliminary finals. His previous record speaks for itself.

Previous record as?

I would have thought the foundations for our 3 successive finals series were laid before Walsh arrived, and the list management strategy of Joyce. However, you seem to imply you do have expertise in what constitutes a quality football manager. What are the criteria and what would you specifically point to, beyond the finals series, as evidence of his quality?

 

[theboyfrombalga]

Previous record as?

I would have thought the foundations for our 3 successive finals series were laid before Walsh arrived, and the list management strategy of Joyce. However, you seem to imply you do have expertise in what constitutes a quality football manager. What are the criteria and what would you specifically point to, beyond the finals series, as evidence of his quality?

So you're saying he just sat on his hands the entire time he was at North? Never once speaking and offering any advice to Scott, the senior players and other members of staff?

 

[Kimbo]

So you're saying he just sat on his hands the entire time he was at North? Never once speaking, and offering any advice to Scott, the senior players and other members of staff?

Output isn't the same as outcome. Busyness isn't the same as effectiveness. Consider "So you're saying Mark Neeld just sat on his hands the entire time he was at Melbourne? Never once speaking to, and offering any advice to, players and assistant coaches?"

Aren't you willing to answer the questions regarding your own views on how the quality of a football manager is measured and how Walsh specifically met or exceeded such criteria? What is the evidence, other than making finals, which as I've pointed out is spurious, that Walsh did a good job?

 

[theboyfrombalga]

Output isn't the same as outcome. Busyness isn't the same as effectiveness. Consider "So you're saying Mark Neeld just sat on his hands the entire time he was at Melbourne? Never once speaking to, and offering any advice to, players and assistant coaches?"

Aren't you willing to answer the questions regarding your own views on how the quality of a football manager is measured and how Walsh specifically met or exceeded such criteria? What is the evidence, other than making finals, which as I've pointed out is spurious, that Walsh did a good job?

I think you'll find the measure of success is fairly simple and he has passed that test with aplomb. Football is a results driven business. He was employed in a senior role with the club for 3 years, during which time they made the finals each year. You don't last 30 years in this caper and earn AFL Life Membership without being good at your job.

I'll also back the likes of Gary Pert and Carl Dilena to know a thing or two about what constitutes a good football manager. Both have head hunted Walsh back to their clubs in a time of need. That speaks volumes of the level of respect held for him at each organisation.

It's a shame to lose him, but the Pies have clearly made him an offer that's too good to refuse for a short term role(1 or 2 years) as he heads into retirement.

 

[Kimbo]

I think you'll find the measure of success is fairly simple and he has passed that test with aplomb. Football is a results driven business. He was employed in a senior role with the club for 3 years, during which time they made the finals each year. You don't last 30 years in this caper and earn AFL Life Membership without being good at your job.

I'll also back the likes of Gary Pert and Carl Dilena to know a thing or two about what constitutes a good football manager. Both have head hunted Walsh back to their clubs in a time of need. That speaks volumes of the level of respect held for him at each organisation.

It's a shame to lose him, but the Pies have clearly made him an offer that's too good to refuse for a short term role(1 or 2 years) as he heads into retirement.

I'm not convinced he's been integral to finals at the Pies or at North, or that longevity in a field alone is an indicator of quality. I've come across a good many people from a range of industries whose main attribute seems to be selling themselves, and moving within the same industry from time to time. Cronyism can also be a factor.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't necessarily agree with you or your arguments.

 

[theboyfrombalga]

I'm not convinced he's been integral to finals at the Pies or at North, or that longevity in a field alone is an indicator of quality. I've come across a good many people from a range of industries whose main attribute seems to be selling themselves, and moving within the same industry from time to time. Cronyism can also be a factor.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't necessarily agree with you or your arguments.

I agree to an extent with what you're saying about longevity not necessarily being an indicator of success across industries. You're quite right that a lot of people change from job to job every few years without really adding anything to their employer and getting by on being able to self-promote. The difference between Walsh and many who you've encountered in those other walks of life that you mentioned is that he's been asked to go back to his former employer twice now. That's a fair indication that he is good at what he does and is respected.

 

[Ry009]

Player development, player selection, umpire gate.

Dont let door hit etc.

 

[Kimbo]

I agree to an extent with what you're saying about longevity not necessarily being an indicator of success across industries. You're quite right that a lot of people change from job to job every few years without really adding anything to their employer and getting by on being able to self-promote. The difference between Walsh and many who you've encountered in those other walks of life that you mentioned is that he's been asked to go back to his former employer twice now. That's a fair indication that he is good at what he does and is respected.

Fair point. Although I do wonder whether 'Eddie the Employer' is such a great example of astute staffing, and at North if the turnover at Board and senior management level meant we weren't quite the same employer in each stint. Would the JB/Eddie connection be a factor?

Thoughts on some of the concerns being raised by others? You've said "shame to lose", but given he was being put out to pasture and, if the concerns named here are, to some degree, shared by the club then "accepting his resignation" could have been "not unhappy to receive his resignation"?

 

[GS WARRIORS]

Was happy when we brought him back. Always seemed to be in charge when he spoke at the pies. Maybe it was Collingwood, the media or he still wanted to do the job. At North he has been invisible and when we have seen him, he seemed barely awake.

His role is more than trading/drafting, but he's didn't have much influence in the 2010 premiership team it's self. He brought in 6 players from 2007-2009 that played on the day.

The drafting under his watch looks very average and one of the reasons (and Bucks getting rid of senior talent) they are where they are now.

2007


Draft

Round

Pick

Player

Recruited from

CFC games

CFC Career Span

Pre-season 1 8 Chris Bryan Carlton 30 2007 - 2009
Rookie elevation Martin Clarke County Down (Ireland) 73 2007 - 2009; 2012 - 2014
National 2 31 John McCarthy Dandenong U18 18 2008 - 2011
National 3 47 Toby Thoolen Bendigo U18 0 2008 - 2009
National 4 61 Jaxson Barham (F/S) Geelong U18 7 2008 - 2010
National Trade Cameron Wood Brisbane 48 2008 - 2012
Rookie 1 13 Luke Casey-Leigh Sandringham U18 0 2008
Rookie
(International) 2 29 Kevin Dyas County Armagh (Ireland) 0 2008 - 2009
Trade Summary
* Cameron Wood traded by Brisbane for pick 14 (Jack Grimes)

2008


Draft

Round

Pick

Player

Recruited from

CFC games

CFC Career Span

Rookie elevation Brent Macaffer Gippsland U18 73 # 2007 - 2015
Rookie elevation Sharrod Wellingham Perth 92 2007 - 2012
National 1 11 Steele Sidebottom Murray Bushrangers 143 # 2009 - 2015
National 2 29 Dayne Beams Southport Sharks 110 2009 - 2014
National 3 45 Jarrad Blight Swan Districts 0 2009 - 2010
National 3 46 Luke Rounds Geelong Falcons 6 2009 - 2012
National 5 73 Leigh Brown North Melbourne 65 2009 - 2011
Rookie 1 11 Tristan Francis Gippsland Power 0 2009 - 2010
Rookie 2 27 Jarryd Blair Gippsland Power 122 # 2009 - 2015
Rookie 3 42 Johnny Bennell Peel Thunder 0 2009
Rookie 4 56 Toby Thoolen Collingwood 0 2008 - 2009
Rookie 5 69 Lachlan Keeffe Marist College, Brisbane 40 2009 - 2015
Rookie
(NSW Scholarship) 6 77 Scott Reed NSW-ACT U18 0 2009 - 2011
Trade Summary
* Anthony Corrie traded by Brisbane for pick 93
* Pick 46 traded by Sydney for Rhyce Shaw and pick 61 (Campbell Heath)

2009


Draft

Round

Pick

Player

Recruited from

CFC games

CFC Career Span

National 2 30 Luke Ball St Kilda 81 2010 - 2014
National 4 62 Ben Sinclair Oakleigh Chargers 50 # 2010 - 2015
National 5 75 Josh Thomas Redland Bombers (QLD) 32 2010 - 2015
National 6 85 Simon Buckley Melbourne 26 2010 - 2012
National Trade Darren Jolly Sydney 72 2010 - 2013
Rookie 1 18 Thomas Hunter Calder Cannons 0 2010 - 2011
Rookie 2 34 Jack Carter West Adelaide 0 2010
Rookie
(International) 3 47 Shae McNamara Milwaukee (United States) 0 2010 - 2012
Trade Summary
* Darren Jolly traded by Sydney for picks 14 and 46

2010


Draft

Round

Pick

Player

Recruited from

CFC games

CFC Career Span

National 3 45 Alex Fasolo East Fremantle 69 # 2011 - 2015
National 3 46 Daniel Farmer Sandringham Dragons 0 2011
National 3 60 Kirk Ugle Swan Districts 3 2011 - 2012
National 4 76 Paul Seedsman Eastern Ranges 49 2011 - 2015
National 5 77 Trent Stubbs East Coast Eagles 0 2011 - 2012
National
(Rookie Elevation) 5 91 Jarryd Blair Collingwood 122 # 2009 - 2015
National
(Rookie Elevation) 6 92 Lachlan Keeffe Collingwood 40 2009 - 2015
National
(NSW Scholarship) 6 104 Thomas Young Campbelltown 9 2010 - 2012
National Trade Andrew Krakouer Swan Districts 35 2011 - 2013
National Trade Jonathon Ceglar Murray U18 0 2011 - 2012
National Trade Chris Tarrant Fremantle 196 1998 - 2006; 2011 - 2012
Rookie 1 25 Thomas Gordon Oakleigh Chargers 0 2011
Rookie 2 42 Declan Reilly Sandringham Dragons 0 2011
Rookie 3 58 Jack Perham East Fremantle 0 2011
Rookie 4 73 Jye Bolton Leopold/Drysdale 0 2011
Rookie 5 81 Paul Cribbin County Kildare (Ireland) 0 2011 - 2012
Trade Summary
* Andrew Krakouer, John Ceglar (pre-listed by Gold Coast) and picks 55, 78 and 95 traded by Gold Coast for pick 25.
* Chris Tarrant and pick 44 traded by Fremantle for picks 43 and 55.
* Collingwood received a third round compensation pick due to the acquisition of Josh Fraser by the Gold Coast.
* Collingwood traded its compensation pick for losing Josh Fraser to Golf Coast in exchange for pick 45 from West Coast.

2011


Draft

Round

Pick

Player

Recruited from

CFC games

CFC Career Span

National 3 50 Jackson Paine Sandringham Dragons U18 6 2012 - 2013
National 3 65 Corey Gault Swan Districts 4 # 2012 - 2015
National
(NSW Scholarship) 4 67 Jarrod Witts Normanhurst, NSW 38 # 2012 - 2015
National Trade Martin Clarke County Down, Ireland 73 ## 2007 - 2009; 2012 - 2014
National Trade Jamie Elliott Murray Bushrangers U18 72 # 2012 - 2015
National Trade Peter Yagmoor Morningside, QLD 2 2012 - 2013
Rookie 1 17 Lachlan Smith Murray Bushrangers U18 0 2012
Rookie 2 35 Marley Williams Claremont 57 # 2012 - 2015
Rookie 3 53 Trent Stubbs Collingwood 0 2011 - 2012
Rookie 4 70 Daniel Farmer Collingwood 0 2011 - 2012
Rookie 5 81 Caolan Mooney County Down, Ireland 6 # 2012 - 2014
Rookie 6 87 Michael Hartley Sydney University 0 # 2012 - 2013
Trade Summary
* Martin Clarke and Jamie Elliott (pre-listed by Greater Western Sydney) and pick 67 traded by Greater Western Sydney for pick 25.
* Peter Yagmoor (pre-listed by Gold Coast as a Queensland zone selection) and pick 47 traded by Greater Western Sydney for pick 50.

2012

Draft

Round

Pick

Player

Recruited from

CFC games

CFC Career Span

National Free Agency Quinten Lynch West Coast 18 2013 - 2014
National Free Agency Clinton Young Hawthorn 21 2013 - 2015
National Free Agency Jordan Russell Carlton 9 2013
National 1 18 Brodie Grundy Sturt 41 # 2013 - 2015
National 1 19 Ben Kennedy Glenelg 25 2013 - 2015
National 1 20 Tim Broomhead Port Adelaide Magpies 19 # 2013 - 2015
National 3 38 Jackson Ramsay East Perth 7 # 2013 - 2015
Rookie 1 13 Kyle Martin Frankston 6 2013-2014
Rookie 2 27 Sam Dwyer Port Melbourne 39 2013-2015
Rookie 3 35 Adam Oxley Redland 19 # 2013-2015
Rookie 4 42 Jack Frost Williamstown 44 # 2013-2015
Rookie 5 48 Ben Hudson Brisbane 7 2013-2014
Rookie 6 50 Peter Yagmoor Collingwood 2 2012-2014
Rookie 7 54 Ben Richmond Yolla District High School 0 2013
Trade Summary
* Jordan Russell traded by Carlton for pick No. 71.
* Picks No. 20 and No. 45 traded by Melbourne for Chris Dawes.
* Pick No. 17 traded by West Coast for Sharrod Wellingham.
* Pick No. 71 traded by the Western Bulldogs for Tom Young.
* Pick No. 39 traded by North Melbourne for picks No. 42 and No. 48.

2013

Draft

Round

Pick

Player

Recruited from

CFC games

CFC Career Span

National

Trade


Taylor Adams

Greater Western Sydney

30 #

2014 - 2015

National Trade Patrick Karnezis Brisbane 4 2014 - 2015
National Trade Jesse White Sydney 36 # 2014 - 2015
National 1 6 Matthew Scharenberg Glenelg 4 # 2014 - 2015
National 1 10 Nathan Freeman Sandringham U18 0 2014 - 2015
National 4 65 Tom Langdon Sandringham U18 41 # 2014 - 2015
National 5 77 Jonathon Marsh East Fremantle 5 # 2014 - 2015
National 6 87 Sam Dwyer Collingwood rookies 39 2013 - 2015
National 7 92 Adam Oxley Collingwood rookies 19 # 2013- 2015
National Delisted Free Agency Tony Armstrong Sydney 6 2014 - 2015
Rookie 1 10 Corey Gault Collingwood 4 # 2012 - 2015
Trade/ Free Agency Summary
* Dale Thomas (restricted free agent) released to Carlton (Collingwood received pick No. 11 as compensation).
* Taylor Adams traded by Greater Western Sydney for Heath Shaw.
* Patrick Karnezis traded by Brisbane for Jackson Paine.
* Jesse White traded by Sydney for draft pick 44 (Aliir Aliir).
* Pick No. 6 traded by West Coast for draft pick No. 11 (Dom Sheed), draft pick No. 31 (Malcolm Karpany) and draft pick No. 49 (Dylan Main).

 

[Heaps of fun]

I'll save year of the roo the effort by just commenting: terrible operator.

 

[year of the roo]

I'll save year of the roo the effort by just commenting: terrible operator.

I didn't realise I was known for my stance on Walsh, but yeah... see ya!

 

[Tas]

Good luck to Walshy, I am not as bitter as some of the BF crew.

 

[TwentyNine]

No big loss. Moving from North to Collingwood is a demotion in this industry.

 

[Firestarter]

Good luck to Walshy, I am not as bitter as some of the BF crew.

Might be overestimating our attachment to him.

 

[Tas]

Might be overestimating our attachment to him.

I don't think I am overestimating anything.

 

[Firestarter]

I don't think I am overestimating anything.

I may have misinterpreted to what the bitterness is referring. My bad.

 

[Shermanator]

I may have misinterpreted to what the bitterness is referring. My bad.

I thought you were the Firestater, not the instigator..

 

[Le Grille]

Do we get any cash for this?

If not don't care.

 

[Firestarter]

I thought you were the Firestater, not the instigator..

Extinguisher?

 

[Saintly35]

I'd like to his "achievements" since being at the club.

Other than *ing up the LT umpire issue I can't really remember him doing anything, sure in-house it could be different but certainly on the surface doesn't appear a loss.

 

[Le Grille]

I'd like to his "achievements" since being at the club.

Other than *ing up the LT umpire issue I can't really remember him doing anything, sure in-house it could be different but certainly on the surface doesn't appear a loss.

Tend to agree, his work as bigfooty liason was pretty shithouse. We seemed to make our big improvements (on and off field) after he left

 

[Ry009]

Good luck to Walshy, I am not as bitter as some of the BF crew.

He was the guy that was going to force the 'no passengers'/setting standards mindset that you rightly bring up repeatedly, and Brad and the FD have continued to let wane.

Seems like the game passed him 5 years ago and just happy to collect a pay cheque.