Injury Walsh's Injury Updates

[CFC2010]

There will a long 12 day break between the Adelaide and Anzac Day games so does this make it more likely we will bring in Elliott and de Goey on the back of just 1 VFL game?

I have no problem with that......I would even play De Goey Friday night if it was up to me.

 

[BigCharlie]

hard to assess him as coach when he is dealt such a poor run and when you listen to interview this morning he kind of references it. Club should do more to defend him or at least should start doing more to defend him otherwise media will hunt him if results dont start coming.

Sorry, but that is absolute bloody nonsense.

Wells was always a dodgy recruit. Reid has been more fragile than tissue paper for at least four seasons. Degoey is a midfielder, not a forward, and is only playing there because of appalling list management. Moore has had hamstring injuries previously, yet has still been mismanaged to the point of suffering an Achilles problem during the pre-season. It's utterly ludicrous that this team's forward structure is based around a Yank who never played the game four years ago, and a player with less than 50 games.

Adelaide lost Dangerfield, Tippet and Gunston, had their coach murdered, then managed to regroup and make a GF after dominating the H&A season. This season they are without Cameron and Lever - I bet they still make the upper reaches of the 8.

Hawthorn lost the best key forward in the game, won the next two Grand Finals, then lost their last remaining tall forward for 2016 due to a cancer diagnosis.

Hawthorn are playing with a bunch of young players, yet they are still able to hold their structure and play to a disciplined game plan.

The forward structure of this Collingwood team has been rubbish for at least the past four seasons. Injury this year has nothing to do with it.

 

[Hardas]

He's trolling us again surely

One can only hope...no, pray.

 

[soreplums]

There will a long 12 day break between the Adelaide and Anzac Day games so does this make it more likely we will bring in Elliott and de Goey on the back of just 1 VFL game?

I would.

 

[left at home]

He also said Shaz was no chance last week.

Bucks is just trolling us mate.

Did a good job of it too

 

[Good_Old]

Adam Oxley making his long awaited return in the VFL. Reckon he'd only play one game before getting a call up to senior level but who makes way for him? He'd be a walk-up start at 17 other clubs.

 

[Kappa]

I'd rate Wells as an A-grader if he's on the park, De Goey and Moore potential A graders. Fasolo an A-, and Reid a B.

Fasolo kicked 29 goals last year, calling him an A grader is beyond a joke.

Wells is an A grade midfielder if he's at his best, not a forward. De Goey and Moore have potential but that's it at the moment until they consistently produce something.

 

[Kappa]

Listening to Bucks on Whateley, he sounds like Broomhead might not make it back.

Elliot and De Goey to play VFL this week apparently. Wells too maybe.

Broomhead was in all likelihood going to be delisted at the end of this year anyway.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I listened to Bucks this morning and when you do you can understand how seductive his ability to speak and sell his philosophy is and why the Club has continued to back him. I have been fuming over the Pies in recent days yet I was soothed and renewed by his chat with Gerard. This has happened before. I can see me walking out of the G after another Collingwood/Carlton shocker, with us on the losing side, cursing my willingness to fall under his spell yet again.

Fair points.

To me it’s a lot better than sounding like a Spud Frawley, or Brendan Bolton or Terry Wallace.
All three are different in how they sound but all three irritating in different ways, dumbness bogan, Boy Scout, horrible voice.

 

[Finnishpie]

Broomhead was in all likelihood going to be delisted at the end of this year anyway.

In all likelihood he was going to make it into the best 22

 

[Snoop Dog]

Sorry, but that is absolute bloody nonsense.

Wells was always a dodgy recruit. Reid has been more fragile than tissue paper for at least four seasons. Degoey is a midfielder, not a forward, and is only playing there because of appalling list management. Moore has had hamstring injuries previously, yet has still been mismanaged to the point of suffering an Achilles problem during the pre-season. It's utterly ludicrous that this team's forward structure is based around a Yank who never played the game four years ago, and a player with less than 50 games.

Adelaide lost Dangerfield, Tippet and Gunston, had their coach murdered, then managed to regroup and make a GF after dominating the H&A season. This season they are without Cameron and Lever - I bet they still make the upper reaches of the 8.

Hawthorn lost the best key forward in the game, won the next two Grand Finals, then lost their last remaining tall forward for 2016 due to a cancer diagnosis.

Hawthorn are playing with a bunch of young players, yet they are still able to hold their structure and play to a disciplined game plan.

The forward structure of this Collingwood team has been rubbish for at least the past four seasons. Injury this year has nothing to do with it.

I actually dont know where to start with that response as you are all over the place with your logic. Very little of which actually gives an answer as to why it isnt reasonable to suggest Buckley has had a significant amount of injuries to deal with which may have impacted his ability to show us his best as a coach. Alas, lets get some things straight;

1 - De Goey was a forward with occassional time through the middle as a junior (I watched him so would know). For you to be so binary as to say he is a mid and not a forward is plain wrong. I would actually say he is a forward with scope to go in the middle but if you look at his running data he isnt capable of going mid (yet). Think you heard some validation of that over summer.

2 - Moore. I dont argue he may have been mismanaged - in fact its the point I am making but you seem to want to link Buckley to him being mismanaged. Not sure how well you understand what goes on in footy clubs but the coach doesnt tell the Dr / Physio what to do. Not sure how this is Buckley's issue.

3 - Cox - Being pretty emotive / binary by sayingforward structure is centred around him. Dont agree with that at all and dont think I have heard someone from Pies say that (stand corrected). Suspect if you asked Buckley in order of preference which forwards he would want available it would go Elliott, Reid, Wells, Fasolo, De Goey and then maybe Cox. You seem to think he would place Cox at the front of that queue.

4 - Adelaide are a special group but they lost those players over a number of years and recruited extremely well off the back of their compo / normal draft picks (Crouch brothers, Sloane, Walker, Laird, Talia), trading (Jenkins, Jacobs, Cameron & Lynch) and through FA (Betts). Is Bucks now running drafting and trading?

5 - Hawthorn. How did they lose the best forward structure in the game? They lost Buddy but kept Roughead, Bruest, Rioli, Puopolo, Gunston and Hale. Not sure how that goes to having completely lost their forward structure. Interesting when Roughead went down it did seem to have an impact though which actually proves my point ....not yours.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Unlike some, l think when we have a lot of outs that’s when he coaches the best, unlike when we have on occasions a full team,when waits to long to throw the team around when it’s not working.

Yeah I thought was odd on Saturday that he didnt swing Howe forward at some stage. Great leap and was the player to bring the ball to ground. What did you think?

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I actually dont know where to start with that response as you are all over the place with your logic. Very little of which actually gives an answer as to why it isnt reasonable to suggest Buckley has had a significant amount of injuries to deal with which may have impacted his ability to show us his best as a coach. Alas, lets get some things straight;

1 - De Goey was a forward with occassional time through the middle as a junior (I watched him so would know). For you to be so binary as to say he is a mid and not a forward is plain wrong. I would actually say he is a forward with scope to go in the middle but if you look at his running data he isnt capable of going mid (yet). Think you heard some validation of that over summer.

2 - Moore. I dont argue he may have been mismanaged - in fact its the point I am making but you seem to want to link Buckley to him being mismanaged. Not sure how well you understand what goes on in footy clubs but the coach doesnt tell the Dr / Physio what to do. Not sure how this is Buckley's issue.

3 - Cox - Being pretty emotive / binary by sayingforward structure is centred around him. Dont agree with that at all and dont think I have heard someone from Pies say that (stand corrected). Suspect if you asked Buckley in order of preference which forwards he would want available it would go Elliott, Reid, Wells, Fasolo, De Goey and then maybe Cox. You seem to think he would place Cox at the front of that queue.

4 - Adelaide are a special group but they lost those players over a number of years and recruited extremely well off the back of their compo / normal draft picks (Crouch brothers, Sloane, Walker, Laird, Talia), trading (Jenkins, Jacobs, Cameron & Lynch) and through FA (Betts). Is Bucks now running drafting and trading?

5 - Hawthorn. How did they lose the best forward structure in the game? They lost Buddy but kept Roughead, Bruest, Rioli, Puopolo, Gunston and Hale. Not sure how that goes to having completely lost their forward structure. Interesting when Roughead went down it did seem to have an impact though which actually proves my point ....not yours.

Great answer and post.

I generally try to garner information from those intently observing,
Rather than those intently guessing.

 

[left at home]

Yeah I thought was odd on Saturday that he didnt swing Howe forward at some stage. Great leap and was the player to bring the ball to ground. What did you think?

Mite be wrong but l thought that Howe was swung forward late in the game.
Any way as the tide turned toward gws robbing our back line, would have opened the flood gates. Would have lost all structure. Would have preferred Langdon forward. Good contested mark, reads the flight of the ball well, not to bad of a kick for goal

 

[BigCharlie]

5 - Hawthorn. How did they lose the best forward structure in the game? They lost Buddy but kept Roughead, Bruest, Rioli, Puopolo, Gunston and Hale. Not sure how that goes to having completely lost their forward structure. Interesting when Roughead went down it did seem to have an impact though which actually proves my point ....not yours.

I didn't say they lost the best forward structure in the game. I said they lost the best forward in the game. They also lost Roughead and Hale in 2016, in addition to their senior assistant coach and another KP player in Lake. Yet somehow, they still managed to finish third at the end of 2016 H&A season, after winning the previous three Premierships.

Which kind of goes to prove my point, not yours; good coaches adapt, they don't make excuses (or have others make excuses for them).

4 - Adelaide are a special group but they lost those players over a number of years and recruited extremely well off the back of their compo / normal draft picks (Crouch brothers, Sloane, Walker, Laird, Talia), trading (Jenkins, Jacobs, Cameron & Lynch) and through FA (Betts). Is Bucks now running drafting and trading?

Ah, I get it. Adelaide are a special group. Good old Adelaide, being able to do things that no other team can. Is there any reason why they are soooooo special and the CFC are not? And Buckley, as Senior Coach, has significant input into trading and drafting, does he not? Or is it Hine, and Hine alone (with input from Allan) responsible for Lynch, White, Young, Greenwood, Karnezis and Mayne? And how is it that Garlett can get snapped up by Melbourne? 40, 29 (off 17 games) and 42 goals would be pretty handy, in a position everyone, bar the senior coach it would appear, thinks we are in desperate need of.

3 - Cox - Being pretty emotive / binary by saying forward structure is centred around him. Dont agree with that at all and dont think I have heard someone from Pies say that (stand corrected). Suspect if you asked Buckley in order of preference which forwards he would want available it would go Elliott, Reid, Wells, Fasolo, De Goey and then maybe Cox. You seem to think he would place Cox at the front of that queue.

If Buckley has Reid at number two in the queue, then that proves he is clueless. Reid's previous four years or so of injury history will tell you that he can break down any second. If Cox is at the back of the queue, then why will he come straight in this week, and Fasolo and Degoey will not?

2 - Moore. I dont argue he may have been mismanaged - in fact its the point I am making but you seem to want to link Buckley to him being mismanaged. Not sure how well you understand what goes on in footy clubs but the coach doesnt tell the Dr / Physio what to do. Not sure how this is Buckley's issue.

I understand plenty. Since Buckley took over, there have been three people in charge of HP. A few changes of club Dr. The only constants are 1)Buckley, and 2)the Physio staff, which Jmac has already assured us are the equal of any in the league. We've since had Walsh opine that maybe Moore's hamstring issue was related to Achilles soreness he suffered over the pre-season, yet he was selected knowing that the load might be too much for him?

1 - De Goey was a forward with occassional time through the middle as a junior (I watched him so would know). For you to be so binary as to say he is a mid and not a forward is plain wrong. I would actually say he is a forward with scope to go in the middle but if you look at his running data he isnt capable of going mid (yet). Think you heard some validation of that over summer.

This is his fourth pre-season. Why isn't he capable of going mid? Bontempelli has played 85 games in his four seasons, primarily as a mid. Cripps has done it.

It doesn't matter in the slightest which mix of players Buckley has had at his disposal, or who has been assistant coach, the forward structure has been abysmal. Players running to the same spot. Blair leaping for marks over taller players. No one front and centre or behind. A huge number of inside 50s for little reward. Poor set shots for goal, many of them from wide in the pockets. Players downfield kicking to outnumbered contests whilst missing players in more space.

Let me guess, though; none of that is Buckley's fault, either. Who are you going to blame for that? Rodney Eade? The cleaning lady?

Great answer and post.
I generally try to garner information from those intently observing,
Rather than those intently guessing.

You garner information from your already set in stone point of view. Classic confirmation bias.

 

[wicksy]

I actually dont know where to start with that response as you are all over the place with your logic. Very little of which actually gives an answer as to why it isnt reasonable to suggest Buckley has had a significant amount of injuries to deal with which may have impacted his ability to show us his best as a coach. Alas, lets get some things straight;

1 - De Goey was a forward with occassional time through the middle as a junior (I watched him so would know). For you to be so binary as to say he is a mid and not a forward is plain wrong. I would actually say he is a forward with scope to go in the middle but if you look at his running data he isnt capable of going mid (yet). Think you heard some validation of that over summer.

2 - Moore. I dont argue he may have been mismanaged - in fact its the point I am making but you seem to want to link Buckley to him being mismanaged. Not sure how well you understand what goes on in footy clubs but the coach doesnt tell the Dr / Physio what to do. Not sure how this is Buckley's issue.

3 - Cox - Being pretty emotive / binary by sayingforward structure is centred around him. Dont agree with that at all and dont think I have heard someone from Pies say that (stand corrected). Suspect if you asked Buckley in order of preference which forwards he would want available it would go Elliott, Reid, Wells, Fasolo, De Goey and then maybe Cox. You seem to think he would place Cox at the front of that queue.

4 - Adelaide are a special group but they lost those players over a number of years and recruited extremely well off the back of their compo / normal draft picks (Crouch brothers, Sloane, Walker, Laird, Talia), trading (Jenkins, Jacobs, Cameron & Lynch) and through FA (Betts). Is Bucks now running drafting and trading?

5 - Hawthorn. How did they lose the best forward structure in the game? They lost Buddy but kept Roughead, Bruest, Rioli, Puopolo, Gunston and Hale. Not sure how that goes to having completely lost their forward structure. Interesting when Roughead went down it did seem to have an impact though which actually proves my point ....not yours.

BigCharlie , You might want to redirect your schooling fees to Snoop Dog

 

[Snoop Dog]

I didn't say they lost the best forward structure in the game. I said they lost the best forward in the game. They also lost Roughead and Hale in 2016, in addition to their senior assistant coach and another KP player in Lake. Yet somehow, they still managed to finish third at the end of 2016 H&A season, after winning the previous three Premierships.

Which kind of goes to prove my point, not yours; good coaches adapt, they don't make excuses (or have others make excuses for them).



Ah, I get it. Adelaide are a special group. Good old Adelaide, being able to do things that no other team can. Is there any reason why they are soooooo special and the CFC are not? And Buckley, as Senior Coach, has significant input into trading and drafting, does he not? Or is it Hine, and Hine alone (with input from Allan) responsible for Lynch, White, Young, Greenwood, Karnezis and Mayne? And how is it that Garlett can get snapped up by Melbourne? 40, 29 (off 17 games) and 42 goals would be pretty handy, in a position everyone, bar the senior coach it would appear, thinks we are in desperate need of.



If Buckley has Reid at number two in the queue, then that proves he is clueless. Reid's previous four years or so of injury history will tell you that he can break down any second. If Cox is at the back of the queue, then why will he come straight in this week, and Fasolo and Degoey will not?



I understand plenty. Since Buckley took over, there have been three people in charge of HP. A few changes of club Dr. The only constants are 1)Buckley, and 2)the Physio staff, which Jmac has already assured us are the equal of any in the league. We've since had Walsh opine that maybe Moore's hamstring issue was related to Achilles soreness he suffered over the pre-season, yet he was selected knowing that the load might be too much for him?



This is his fourth pre-season. Why isn't he capable of going mid? Bontempelli has played 85 games in his four seasons, primarily as a mid. Cripps has done it.

It doesn't matter in the slightest which mix of players Buckley has had at his disposal, or who has been assistant coach, the forward structure has been abysmal. Players running to the same spot. Blair leaping for marks over taller players. No one front and centre or behind. A huge number of inside 50s for little reward. Poor set shots for goal, many of them from wide in the pockets. Players downfield kicking to outnumbered contests whilst missing players in more space.

Let me guess, though; none of that is Buckley's fault, either. Who are you going to blame for that? Rodney Eade? The cleaning lady?



You garner information from your already set in stone point of view. Classic confirmation bias.

I just dont have the time to respond to a lot of that bc I'm actually not that keen to turn this into a volley of emails.

I dont care if you dont rate Buckley, I get why people arent convinced I just dont get the logic of some of the above to prove that point.

I dont think anyone down at Collingwood blames Buckley for Darcy moore or any other persons soft tissue injuries. I have a little insight into what goes on down there and can promise thats not the case. Equally it aint his fault De Goey aint playing in the middle. I think you heard a senior player give a veiled answer to that question earlier in the year. As for the Hawks well knock me senseless but when you have the quality of players they had through their team then losing Franklin sure did hurt but my god they had some quality left behind. As for Crows I gave you an answer. Incredibly good at drafting / FA, trading.

The argument against Buckley may well be his coaching style and his man management but you can equally point to poor recruiting (particularly players skill levels), poor trading, poor FA selection and the relative fitness of his players. if you want to attach all that to him go for it.... i dont.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I didn't say they lost the best forward structure in the game. I said they lost the best forward in the game. They also lost Roughead and Hale in 2016, in addition to their senior assistant coach and another KP player in Lake. Yet somehow, they still managed to finish third at the end of 2016 H&A season, after winning the previous three Premierships.

Which kind of goes to prove my point, not yours; good coaches adapt, they don't make excuses (or have others make excuses for them).



Ah, I get it. Adelaide are a special group. Good old Adelaide, being able to do things that no other team can. Is there any reason why they are soooooo special and the CFC are not? And Buckley, as Senior Coach, has significant input into trading and drafting, does he not? Or is it Hine, and Hine alone (with input from Allan) responsible for Lynch, White, Young, Greenwood, Karnezis and Mayne? And how is it that Garlett can get snapped up by Melbourne? 40, 29 (off 17 games) and 42 goals would be pretty handy, in a position everyone, bar the senior coach it would appear, thinks we are in desperate need of.



If Buckley has Reid at number two in the queue, then that proves he is clueless. Reid's previous four years or so of injury history will tell you that he can break down any second. If Cox is at the back of the queue, then why will he come straight in this week, and Fasolo and Degoey will not?



I understand plenty. Since Buckley took over, there have been three people in charge of HP. A few changes of club Dr. The only constants are 1)Buckley, and 2)the Physio staff, which Jmac has already assured us are the equal of any in the league. We've since had Walsh opine that maybe Moore's hamstring issue was related to Achilles soreness he suffered over the pre-season, yet he was selected knowing that the load might be too much for him?



This is his fourth pre-season. Why isn't he capable of going mid? Bontempelli has played 85 games in his four seasons, primarily as a mid. Cripps has done it.

It doesn't matter in the slightest which mix of players Buckley has had at his disposal, or who has been assistant coach, the forward structure has been abysmal. Players running to the same spot. Blair leaping for marks over taller players. No one front and centre or behind. A huge number of inside 50s for little reward. Poor set shots for goal, many of them from wide in the pockets. Players downfield kicking to outnumbered contests whilst missing players in more space.

Let me guess, though; none of that is Buckley's fault, either. Who are you going to blame for that? Rodney Eade? The cleaning lady?



You garner information from your already set in stone point of view. Classic confirmation bias.

Ok

 

[Horaceg]

Mite be wrong but l thought that Howe was swung forward late in the game.
Any way as the tide turned toward gws robbing our back line, would have opened the flood gates. Would have lost all structure. Would have preferred Langdon forward. Good contested mark, reads the flight of the ball well, not to bad of a kick for goal

I hadn't thought of Langdon up forward until reading your post but it could be worth seeing how he goes.

 

[BigCharlie]

You might want to redirect your schooling fees to Snoop dog

You must have me confused with Saintly Viewed. I home school my children - it's the only way they would get a quality education.

I just dont have the time to respond to a lot of that bc I'm actually not that keen to turn this into a volley of emails.

Classic response.

I dont care if you dont rate Buckley, I get why people arent convinced I just dont get the logic of some of the above to prove that point.

You don't get the logic of me pointing out that, despite a wide variety of players and assistant coaches in the previous few years, the forward set up is still abysmal?

I dont think anyone down at Collingwood blames Buckley for Darcy moore or any other persons soft tissue injuries.

Okay, so it isn't the Head of HP, since there have been three of them and still injury abounds, it isn't the club doctors, because they have changed and still injury abounds, it doesn't have anything to do with poor old unlucky Nathan, so that means it has to be the Physiotherapists, since they are the only ones left.

Is that right?

Equally it aint his fault De Goey aint playing in the middle. I think you heard a senior player give a veiled answer to that question earlier in the year.

So Tyson Goldsack knows Degoey isn't as fit as he can be, and yet the senior coach has done nothing about a Number five draft pick being unfit enough four years into the system to play the position he was recruited for?

As for the Hawks well knock me senseless but when you have the quality of players they had through their team then losing Franklin sure did hurt but my god they had some quality left behind.

I pointed out they lost half their forward line. It didn't appear to trouble them unduly. So why is it Breust and Gunston are apparently relatively injury free, but the CFC equivalents aren't? Just bad luck again, I suppose.

As for Crows I gave you an answer. Incredibly good at drafting / FA, trading.

And obviously bereavement counseling.

The argument against Buckley may well be his coaching style and his man management but you can equally point to poor recruiting (particularly players skill levels), poor trading, poor FA selection and the relative fitness of his players. if you want to attach all that to him go for it.... i dont.

I have never apportioned all the blame to him. You, and many others however, appear to want to blame everyone but him.

Here's a link to an article four years ago.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...5/news-story/d71aff1c1d05ba9dd0afd17fae8fe343
COLLINGWOOD has set its sights on being the “best transition team” in the AFL.

The Magpies struggled badly to control of the ball last year, ranking 16th in disposal retention and, according to Champion Data, possessed the fourth-worst kick rating.

But coach Nathan Buckley, speaking before his side was beaten by Carlton in the NAB Challenge, predicted Collingwood would be a “bold and direct attacking force” in 2015.

“It is our intention to be the best transition team in the competition. The game has changed. Contested ball is king, there’s no doubt, but you need to be good in offence and defence and be effective in both,” Buckley said.

“We’ll be a bold and direct attacking force who will bring a strong and relentless attitude to our defence. We’ll be a connected, organised and disciplined team unit every time you see us play."

Looks to me as if that goal has failed. Here's another one from last year:

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/s...7/news-story/a93fb5be9793e376cf8de8cabe139d6f
“We think we have got elements of Hawthorn in back half use, but our defensive and contested focus is probably more like the Western Bulldogs than anyone else.”

I suppose that is true. Hawthorn have six players in the back half, and so do Collingwood. But wait!! Our very own coach also lamented the ball use.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...d/news-story/082ae288826ca67e08779dfc59c359ad

Here's a link to an article that says it all.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...in-a-high-scoring-threat-20180220-p4z0z8.html

Essendon were one of the lower ranked teams in scoring in 2015 and 2016, yet turned it around in just one season to become the third highest, despite Worsfold not having had anything to do with half the playing list the previous year.

I guess he's just lucky.

 

[Bored_Pie]

I'd rate Wells as an A-grader if he's on the park, De Goey and Moore potential A graders. Fasolo an A-, and Reid a B.

Fasolo isn't even a B .

 

[Maggie5]

it isn't the club doctors, because they have changed and still injury abounds

Wrong! The doctors and have been there since 2010.

And obviously bereavement counseling.

Did you make the same allowance when McCarthy died?

Think you may need to take your thoughts to the Buckley thread as this has gone past just injuries!

 

[wicksy]

You must have me confused with Saintly Viewed. I home school my children - it's the only way they would get a quality education.

Poor kids.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Adam Oxley making his long awaited return in the VFL. Reckon he'd only play one game before getting a call up to senior level but who makes way for him? He'd be a walk-up start at 17 other clubs.

I'd guess:
In: Oxley
Out: Howe

 

[BigCharlie]

Wrong! The doctors and have been there since 2010.

Wrong!! Brayshaw - only started in 2015.

Did you make the same allowance when McCarthy died?

I'm not sure you really get the point. Again.

The CFC lost a middle rung player and the team lost a Preliminary final.

Adelaide had their coach stabbed to death by his own son, and got better.

Poor kids.

Dickhead.