Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 2

[Gethelred]

This is a sensitive area for some. With that in mind, I'm going to remind a few posters a few things:

• personal attacks are against forum rules. From this point, any attacks that are directed at another poster will be treated with a warning, then infractions and threadbans if it continues.
• the spread of misinformation is also against the rules. This is taken very seriously by moderation, and you will be asked to support your opinion from time to time. If you cannot satisfy this, you will be provided an opportunity to retract your post; if you do not, you will receive an infraction and a threadban on that basis.

This is a forum for adults, and I'd appreciate you all treating each other appropriately.

 

[Zidane98]

Suvorov:
Russia claims there are defence bases here. Locals say that is horseshit.


Bakhmut:
Russia claims there are defence bases here. Locals say that is horseshit.

(in the video, 'okhuyet' means 'crikey'. Well, 'afiget' is more like 'crikey'. 'Okhuyet' is more like 'ducken crikey')

A photo of a poster from Stakhanov (aka Kadiivka):
In Stakhanov, the people are rising from their knees. Stakhanov, a city in the Luhansk region that has been occupied by Russian-sponsored militants since 2014.

The text of the poster is as follows:
Stakhanov is Ukraine
Occupiers, leave Stakhanov and Donbass! We didn't need you and we don't need you. Your country has intervened in the affairs of a sovereign, democratic state and driven us into poverty and civil war. You deceived the residents of Donbass. You USE the mobilized like cannon fodder, covering up the bloody war with fabrications about fighting the Nazis. You only bring suffering and destruction. You are Nazis!

Sounds like the residents of Donbass are turning on the occupiers which is a good thing.

 

[Zidane98]

Russian observers/commentators were unanimously surprised at the action taken on the 24th of Feb.
There is no history of Russia making a pre-emptive strike into any country. Whilst, many were aware of the conditions on the ground in the Donbass area since 2014, they were not aware of the escalation of troops and artillery fire from the Ukraine Forces into the Donbass in the days leading up to the 24th of Feb.

Well, that's at least the story. Russia was left with the option of either watching the Russian Donbass Area invaded and bombed by the AFU - accepting the million or so Russian speaking refugees into its border and preserving the peace or initiate the SMO. Rock and a hard place.

They have the option of leaving Ukraine alone and letting the 2 million residents of Donbass who have been displaed elsewhere in Ukraine (only to be attacked again) return home and live in peace. It isn't difficult for the few die hard Russia lovers to move to Russia if they are that desperate to live under Russian rule. It's literally a 1 hour drive away.

Instead they chose the option of a military occupation and support a rag tag government of human rights abusers who have no regard for the residents of the area. They do this solely with the intention of undermining Ukrainian sovereignty. The lives of Donbass mean nothing to Russian invaders.

 

[Saint]

Talk that Russia's top level military brass believe the war in Ukraine is lost. Wonder if this is the start of a coup.

If you're Russian top brass and you want to let the President know that you want the war to stop. The only way to do this is to leak to the foreign press.

You can tell your Commanders, that will get you blamed, then demoted and/or locked up/heart-attacked/thrown yourself out of a building.
If you're senior enough you could tell Putin, same result.
You could tell local press, who would report you to Putin, same result.

The only leaks from Russia during this war will be to the western press.

 

[footyfan1978]

And from Severodonetsk / East TG there is now also a walkthrough of the Seversky Donets River crossing insanity :

As the "second army of the world" wanted to cross the Seversky Donets River. To do this, the orcs used a tank regiment. But it did not happen as expected: the Ukrainian infantry destroyed 30 units of equipment, the rest was finished by artillery.



I yoiked it to YT for those without TG access:

Thanks for uploading video.
Wow, what carnage and senseless loss of thousands of Russki lives.
Moronic Putin.

 

[Jbudds]

Putin deteriorating fast. With luck he will be dead by Christmas

Dazed Vladimir Putin splutters and retches in meeting amid chemotherapy rumours

Vladimir Putin, 69, looked dazed and bloated as he sat across from defence giant Sergey Chemezov, whose company Rostec builds an array of military hardware

www.mirror.co.uk

I have no idea whether to believe this stuff or not.

 

[Upstart Swan]

In the very same piece, he also states:



A reasonable question would thus be: Given that his analysis here was shown—by Russia’s invasion just a fortnight later—to be tragically and utterly wrong, what justification is there for believing any of the broader claims that he presents?

Well I can't answer if any of his other claims in that article are wrong, but in other articles I've read he has made some "interesting" claims about benevolent Chinese socialism, ie the Bank of China only lends money for real estate ventures "by deciding, where do we need to have investment in real estate to provide housing for the population at as low a price as we can make it?" (Interview with Michael Hudson in Monthly Review). Far removed from the reality, I would have thought.
What I don't understand is why so many left-wingers (Michael Hudson as well as being a Research Professor at University of Missouri is also a Professor at the School of Marxist Studies at Peking University) are so pro-Putin, pro-Russia in this war. Go to websites like Monthly Review, World Socialist Web Site and there's a lot of cheerleading for the Russians.
Do they sincerely believe that Putin's "bandit capitalism" is a superior model to what we have in the West?

 

[Mobbs]

I'm only halfway through ... * you telegram. But all these seemed worth mentioning so I compiled it into a quick shorthand. If anyone can't see or translate something that interests them, just yell out and I'll go get it.

Russian troops have to shell out for their own body armour, bulletproof vests, shoes - [Moscow Times via DOXA]

Prosecutor asks for life imprisonment for Russian soldier Shishimarin accused of killing Ukrainian civilian. [Vot Tak TG Video during trial]. The accused himself admits guilt and suggests capital punishment would not be unfair. [Meduza]

18-y/o Krasnoyarsk man accused of "rehabilitating nazism" and "adherence to Ukrainian nationalism" for burning a St George ribbon as a protest. [Krasnoyarsk Investigative Department].

McDonalds will sell 25 stores which were under its ownership to one of the franchisees Alexander Govor, who intends to reopen them under a new brand and model. [Novaya Gazeta], [BBC Russia]

This reference to the Siverskiy Donets River "uncrossing" adds one interesting point. The tank/armoured vehicle losses are comparable to "the battle of Prokhorovka in July 1942, {where} the Nazis also lost about 70 tanks and self-propelled guns (Wikipedia says 60-80). It was one of the greatest tank battles in history." [Ukraine in Shock] (The 1942 battle referenced happened just outside of Ukraine, south of Kursk)

Captured Russian soldier tells how their command ran and abandoned them, and later that “We came here as invaders and occupiers. It turns out that we are fascists.” (of course he is being interviewed so for full clarity he might be trying to please those who speaks with) [Trukha Ukraina]

Vilnius has a march/protest by Ukrainians today. It's a national day in Ukraine. [SOTA]

Of the 203 pre-trial detention centres in Russia, approx 50 are now overcrowded (the suggestion is that they are bursting with "I want peace" nazis). [Novaya Gazeta] - The numbers mentioned are an increase of 4%, and a new population of ~205k so ~8k increase.

RuTube is still down 10 days after it went under. Efforts continue to restore it. The original claim is that all content was irrevocably lost, however RuTube denies this is true. [TASS] [Original incident report via The Village]

Reportedly the devastation of what used to be Ribizhne. I don't know whether to call this a Mariupoling or just a Russianing. Gulp-inducing video from drone footage. Population was 60k. [Ukraine in Shock]

Australia will additionally send 20 more Bushmaster armored vehicles and 14 M113 armored personnel carriers, as well as protective equipment for soldiers, to Ukraine. - [Ukraine in Shock]

Two Russians on trial admit guilt to shelling Kharkiv - Alexander Bobykin & Alexander Ivanov. Face potentially as much as 12 years prison. [Trukha Ukraina]

 

[footyfan1978]

I have no idea whether to believe this stuff or not.

I let that stuff thru to keeper.

 

[owen87]

Russian observers/commentators were unanimously surprised at the action taken on the 24th of Feb.
There is no history of Russia making a pre-emptive strike into any country. Whilst, many were aware of the conditions on the ground in the Donbass area since 2014, they were not aware of the escalation of troops and artillery fire from the Ukraine Forces into the Donbass in the days leading up to the 24th of Feb.

Well, that's at least the story. Russia was left with the option of either watching the Russian Donbass Area invaded and bombed by the AFU - accepting the million or so Russian speaking refugees into its border and preserving the peace or initiate the SMO. Rock and a hard place.

Yeah.

Nah.

You've swallowed Putin's propaganda.

What a terrible freethinker you are.

 

[The Ghost of the KPF]

Im seeing indications of a major breakthrough by Ru forces West of Popasna. The Severodonetsk salient may be close to encirclement. Not good.

 

[Visions]

Talk that Russia's top level military brass believe the war in Ukraine is lost. Wonder if this is the start of a coup.

Any links to this. Doing some searching and can't find anything.

Im seeing indications of a major breakthrough by Ru forces West of Popasna. The Severodonetsk salient may be close to encirclement. Not good.

Worrying that they're gaining west of Popasna. However to close it off they need to head north which is still holding. If they break through there, then yes the UAF is in trouble.

 

[Mobbs]

Ok here's the second half. Again, I know my stuff gets tiresome for some people so I just made summary points of everything that I thought might be worthwhile. For anyone who can't access the TG links, or can't sort out how to translate the text within them, yell out and I'll help.

Current occupation head of Kherson says the town will become part of Russia. [DOXA]. Can imagine the conversation between this guy and his grandchildren in 20 years: "This town will become a part of Russia one day!" "Grandpa ... what's Russia?"

May 17-19, the Educational Marathon "New Horizons of Russian society: Knowledge" was broadcast. Folks like Peskov and Solovyov gave lectures on how Bucha was fake, and our role is to pick up a machine gun. Kadyrov also was represented. 70 million viewers. [BB CNTV & 4mins of youtube from Novaya Gazeta]

Extended dive into the current Azovstal situation. RF claims 1700 defenders left, usual semantics about evacuation vs surrender. [Meduza]. Still unknown whether there are defenders still there, although this bit of video claims there is: [Denys Davydov] (edit: also found clearer version of the video on Ukraine in Shock but only Denys offers a translation)
Another transcription of the video from Azovstal : "Deputy commander of the Azov regiment Svyatoslav Palamar said that he did not leave the Azovstal plant. “A certain operation is going on, the details of which I will not announce. Thanks to the whole world, thanks to Ukraine. See you," Palamar said. [Meduza].

A vehicular accident (confirmed not hostilities) resulted in a couple Russian vehicles lost before they got there (heading out from Crimea). Reportedly there was 1 death and 1 injured. [Ukraine in Shock]

In Ukraine, a radio station previously known as "Radio Russia" changed name officially to "Radio Bayraktar". [Trukha Ukraina]

Brother of Oleg Tsarev arrested on suspicion of arranging sabotage in Dnipro region. Oleg was a part of the Yanokovych / Party Of Regions infiltrators. Oleg claims (from where he now lives in Russia) that he hasn't spoken to his brother in ages. [BBC Russia]

While on Yanykovych cronies: Holodomor-denier ex-president Yanukovych sprung sneaking other criminals from Ukraine to Russia. [Trukha Ukraina]

Extended description (alleged) of what Ukrainian prisoners of war can expect on Russian territory. This is an allegation, I don't know this Gulagu source from a bar of soap. [Gulagu.net]

USA apparently intends to send Harpoon missiles to the Ukrainian defenders, which are for knocking over seafaring targets and have a 300km range. They talk of modifying them so they can be launched from coastal locations.[Novaya Gazeta via Reuters]

Some photos of the Kharkiv metro stations still in use as bomb shelters. There are hopes to get the metro rail system back up and running soon. [Meduza]

Reported as Vasylivka, south of Zaphorizhe (not occupied), north of the frontline. East (I think, or 50/50) and definitely west (Enerhodar) is occupied. Russia blocked the way for evacuating residents to proceed, so they are stuck. Considering the recent past history of Russian treatment of civilians in Ukraine, I could imagine their terror. [Ukraine in Shock]

"60 days underground at Azovstal with 2 children" - interview with Katerina, wife of an Azovstal defencer. [BBC Russia]

According to the UN, some morbid stats about civilian casualties. I summarise here with comparisons between 2022, and 2014-21 period (all numbers are approximates or 'at leasts', my sources are UN in both cases):
Civilians killed: 3811 (3350 from 2014-21)
Civilians injured: 4278 (i don't have a 2014-21 number)
Children killed: 255 (142 from 2014-21)
[Novaya Gazeta]

Google Maps has added panorama imagery of Bucha, Irpin, Borodyanka, Gostomel, Gorenka with recent devastation, browsable via the site. Probably good for exposing the horror to the world, but not my cup tea. I'm already aware this happened and my stomach isn't up to it. [Ukraine in Shock]

New song from Zemfira protesting the war. The imagery says everything. [BBC Russia] Illustrations are by her partner Renata Litvinova. Can't find lyrics yet, sorry. Zemfira previously known for such as Iskala and a very cool cover of Kukushka.


A home video strolling around while audible is the almost-non-stop shelling of the city of Severodonetsk. They will Mariupol it if it gets them what they want. [Ukraine in Shock]. Zelenskiy himself says "there is hell (in Donbas), without exaggeration" [BBC Russia]. And more images of Severodonetsk here : [Serhiy Gadaij]

Kursk resident fairytale theatre performer Roman Staryvoit again carping on about mortar attacks on irrelevant and strategically nonsensical villages under his jurisdiction. [BBC Russia] I've stopped giving too many *s what this dingbat has to say.

In Kherson, the town name and Ukrainian flags were painted all around today in reverence of a Ukrainian Holiday Vyshyvanka Day - a celebration and preservation of Ukrainian folk traditions. [Ukraine in Shock]. This might also be why Arestovich is looking so pretty today! [Trukha Ukrainia] (literally dunno, sorry if wrong). But its confirmed these newborns got sorted into traditionally embroidered outfits for the occasion: [Trukha Ukraina]

 

[TedDougChris]

Only a moron could think that Finland and Sweden joining NATO is because of the US.

It's because Russia is behaving like an 18th century monarchy hell-bent on expansionism.

The democratic world has coalesced against them because of their behaviour. What we're seeing in Ukraine is the largest the Russian Federation will ever be. It's a continual slide downhill from here.

Anyone that knows a Finn knows they are very stubborn and determined and dont take well to being told what to do....

 

[Aussie in exile]

I have no idea whether to believe this stuff or not.

We can only hope

 

[Aussie in exile]

During my travels the following world (/ex-world) leaders have died

Kim Jong-Il
Nelson Mandela
Fidel Castro

So using my strike rate, I can safely assume that Vladimir Putin will either die between June 26, July 26-August 9 or November 26-December 22

Lets hope your right about him dying this year sometime

 

[Mobbs]

We can only hope

Agree on that bit, just unsure if all these illness reports are valid. But of course, anyway to remove him, would be good.

But I thought of you when I noticed this video this morning!

View attachment зупини.mp4

In the church of Lutsk {north-western Ukraine}, the boy prayed that no one could come up with a cure for Putin's illness.

Nobody in the church said "hey that's a bit harsh for a prayer, young man!"

 

[swingdog]

Anyone that knows a Finn knows they are very stubborn and determined and dont take well to being told what to do....

Mika Hakkinen likes this.

 

[Mobbs]

Apparently Kyiv or near to. Nice installation!

 

[footyfan1978]

Anyone that knows a Finn knows they are very stubborn and determined and dont take well to being told what to do....

I don't know a Finn... ha ha

 

[footyfan1978]

Saw some Aussie Jacobseen or whatever his name is. Think his ancestors from there.
Maybe Who Do You Think You Are episode.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Well I can't answer if any of his other claims in that article are wrong, but in other articles I've read he has made some "interesting" claims about benevolent Chinese socialism, ie the Bank of China only lends money for real estate ventures "by deciding, where do we need to have investment in real estate to provide housing for the population at as low a price as we can make it?" (Interview with Michael Hudson in Monthly Review). Far removed from the reality, I would have thought.
What I don't understand is why so many left-wingers (Michael Hudson as well as being a Research Professor at University of Missouri is also a Professor at the School of Marxist Studies at Peking University) are so pro-Putin, pro-Russia in this war. Go to websites like Monthly Review, World Socialist Web Site and there's a lot of cheerleading for the Russians.
Do they sincerely believe that Putin's "bandit capitalism" is a superior model to what we have in the West?

Maybe it's like a clockface? The more extreme left you go, up past 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock etc you eventually and inadvertently find yourself at 1 o'clock and deep in extremist right territory?

 

[TedDougChris]

I don't know a Finn... ha ha

Plenty on here have demonstrated that they don’t know anyFinn about anyFinn...

 

[oogac]

Putin going under the knife????

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Putin going under the knife????

Implications?

 

[Present Not Past]

Thanks for uploading video.
Wow, what carnage and senseless loss of thousands of Russki lives.
Moronic Putin.

A wonderful example of a combined arms engagement. Destruction of enemy forces using aerial, artillery and ground based forces. Text book.