War on drugs

[Frodo]

To the last three posters.

Distorting a persons post may be smartarsed but is not very useful.

I never said that facts weren't relevant or shouldn't be taken into account. I said, if you'd bother to read my post

I will further add that anyone asking for statistical substantiation of anothers opinion is IMO again only trying one upmanship in a poor fashion. One has a right to form an opinion based on many factors without it having to be irrefutable.

So if you believe that the moon is made of cheese then fair enough, you have that right. And if anyone wants to put any statistical reason up or fact up against that belief then that's fair enough too.
But if all anyone can say to your belief is 'give me some facts or statistics to support your belief that the moon is made of cheese' then they neither refute or contribute. They just callously suggest that you have no right to an opinion without being able to produce some sort of justification acceptable to them.

Well life aint like that, people are allowed opinions per se.

 

[Santos L Helper]

Originally posted by Frodo
To the last three posters.

Distorting a persons post may be smartarsed but is not very useful.

I never said that facts weren't relevant or shouldn't be taken into account. I said, if you'd bother to read my post



So if you believe that the moon is made of cheese then fair enough, you have that right. And if anyone wants to put any statistical reason up or fact up against that belief then that's fair enough too.
But if all anyone can say to your belief is 'give me some facts or statistics to support your belief that the moon is made of cheese' then they neither refute or contribute. They just callously suggest that you have no right to an opinion without being able to produce some sort of justification acceptable to them.

Well life aint like that, people are allowed opinions per se.

Frodo's gift to us all. How to behave like gentlemen whilst discussing issues.
I have no problem with people posting an opinion, but if you do then be prepared that someone with a differing opinion to tell you that your incorrect. I welcome other people's opinions which may be different to mine and I'm quite prepared to listen and either agree or disagree. To disagree with my opinion does not mean I try to belittle that person, but I'll stand up for my opinions, just like you do.
I also feel that you, Frodo, take the easy way out by trying to belittle me (and others) by narrowing my arguments down to me trying to be a smartarse. It seems to me that this is a smart arses approach.

 

[Frodo]

Originally posted by Santos L Helper


Frodo's gift to us all. How to behave like gentlemen whilst discussing issues.
I have no problem with people posting an opinion, but if you do then be prepared that someone with a differing opinion to tell you that your incorrect. I welcome other people's opinions which may be different to mine and I'm quite prepared to listen and either agree or disagree. To disagree with my opinion does not mean I try to belittle that person, but I'll stand up for my opinions, just like you do.
I also feel that you, Frodo, take the easy way out by trying to belittle me (and others) by narrowing my arguments down to me trying to be a smartarse. It seems to me that this is a smart arses approach.

I like it........touche

 

[Sydneyfan]

Originally posted by Docker_Brat

Granted, how many people go out of control?

I don't think we need them here, there has to be somewhere left in Australia where there is a haven from the things.

If people need to play them, there is the casino. I personally don't want to see pubs turned into mini casinos and the live music scene destroyed in favour of the 'entertainment' that poker machines are supposed to be.

Alas, unfortunately, that's the situation now in New South Wales. Some Publicans complained how Clubs (RSL, Leagues', Workers' Clubs, etc.) were making big money off pokies. Clubs at least are required to spread some of their profits from pokies back to the community, but pubs can keep the profits for themselves. The NSW Government around 5 years let Pubs get Pokies too, now days pool rooms in pubs have become pokie rooms, there's not as many live bands since pubs have realised that the money is better to just slab 50 pokies in rather than have live bands each week. I think the NSW Government has put a freeze on pokies in pubs now, but it's a little too late really.

I heard a few years ago that the State of NSW has something ridiculous like 10% of the world's poker machines, though it's probably more now!

 

[skilts]

I've just about had enough of you bleeding heart bastards arguing for the legalisation of drugs. What have I ever done to you?
I've had a quite lucrative business in selling drugs over the past thirty years and the last thing I need is some smart A trying to put me out of business. Don't you believe in capitalism and the number one commandment: If it can be demanded it must be supplied? Heresy!
How am I supposed to support my town house in Melbourne, my holiday house in Surfers, my boat, my Benz and the company of beautiful women, if you lefty scum make me irrelevant?
I hope you don't think I'm joking when I say that I know who you are and where you live. It may surprise you to know that I have lots of friends in police forces throughout the world who would be only too happy to help me in this. After all, they have a vested interest too.

 

[gPhonque]

Originally posted by Frodo
But if all anyone can say to your belief is 'give me some facts or statistics to support your belief that the moon is made of cheese' then they neither refute or contribute. They just callously suggest that you have no right to an opinion without being able to produce some sort of justification acceptable to them.

No - you are the one who is contributing nothing to this discussion other than false statements such as:

originally posted by Frodo
"At first Marijuana may bring great stress relief but in time the intensity wears off so a harder drug may be taken...and addiction sets in.
If we were all strong enough to stop at moderate unharmful levels then there would be no problem but most are not that strong."

Since you have refused to provide statistics to back up your comment, i'll do you a favour:

http://www.mpp.org/common_q.html

I could provide another 1000 links if you wanted to but the figures/findings will be exactly the same, give or take a few percent.

So now that we've partly established that you're full of crap, do you have anything contructive to add to this discussion, or will you again choose to dodge the topic? (in true John Howard style?)

 

[skilts]

Ah, our resident expert on theories of communication gets a mention. John Howard, the man who thinks government sponsored injecting rooms send a bad message to our youth. You have to listen because this is a man who is so obviously in tune with our youth. It's not as if he's stuck in a 50s timewarp. No, he's completely up to date. Our man in Washington, of whom we're so proud, as he bestrides the world stage, like a colossus. Makes you so proud to be an Australian. The man whose time should never have come.
His thesis is that government decisions only have one interpretation available for the recipients of that message. That interpretation is, um,er, whatever he says it is. So, if the government gives out heroin, then the only interpretation available is that the government is endorsing heroin. Sorry, I must have missed that meeting. I would have thought that another interpretation was available.
Try this on for size. I am young, the government cares enough about me to make it unneccesary for me to steal from oldies at ATM machines. They care enough to make sure I don't become a criminal at age fifteen. They are not pleased when they see sixteen year old pregnant girls sweating and trembling as they hit up in the streets of Footscray. They don't label everyone as losers who don't have the philosophy that John Howard has.
What is that philosophy? If you haven't worked it out yet, this government is hopeless with anything which doesn't involve a bottom financial line. They are a social disaster.
It could be worse though, we could have Costello. Has it occurred to anyone what a pri(k Howard must be to survive in a cabinet with Reith and Costello baying at his heels?

 

[Santos L Helper]

Skilts, after reading your post I'm pretty sure you want us to bring back Menzies and conscription. That'll sort the kids out.

 

[skilts]

Santos, I think you should re-read my post, if that's really what you think I was saying.
There is no need to resurrect Menzies, we already have John Howard, the man whose time should never have come.
On the other hand, if we can find Menzies' body at Melbourne General Cemetary, it might be rewarding to exhume him. Even at this late stage, he's still probably got more life in him than Howard.

 

[Santos L Helper]

Originally posted by skilts
Santos, I think you should re-read my post, if that's really what you think I was saying.
There is no need to resurrect Menzies, we already have John Howard, the man whose time should never have come.
On the other hand, if we can find Menzies' body at Melbourne General Cemetary, it might be rewarding to exhume him. Even at this late stage, he's still probably got more life in him than Howard.

Sarcasm matey. I understood where you were coming from.

 

[Perrin]

On the other hand, if we can find Menzies' body at Melbourne General Cemetary, it might be rewarding to exhume him. Even at this late stage, he's still probably got more life in him than Howard.

And a lot more vision.

 

[Santos L Helper]

Originally posted by Perrin

And a lot more vision.

This is a joke right? Menzies equalled vision for right wing politics aimed at keeping the 'under-priviliged' just that.

 

[Perrin]

Originally posted by Santos L Helper


This is a joke right? Menzies equalled vision for right wing politics aimed at keeping the 'under-priviliged' just that.

It was a bad joke. Only trying to point out our PM's complete lack of it (for anything other than himself). I was not around for the Menzies era so I don't know a lot about him.

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by Perrin

I believe that with marijuana (In Qld anyway) the answer is simple.

Decrimilalise the possession and growing of small quantities.

I'm not condoning legalisation but certainly take the criminal element out of it. Reasons.

1. Many ordinary people smoke pot (myself not included) and should not be classified as criminals.

Marijuana is a lose/lose situation for people who use/grow it. The law says (in SA anyway) that you are allowed to have 2 plants for personal use....yet if you get caught with two plants you get fined anyway. I mean how does that work?? Something cant be legal and illegal at the same time

 

[Santos L Helper]

Originally posted by Perrin


It was a bad joke. Only trying to point out our PM's complete lack of it (for anything other than himself). I was not around for the Menzies era so I don't know a lot about him.

No worries mate, I see where your coming from. Sorry I missed the point.

 

[Santos L Helper]

Originally posted by Macca19


Marijuana is a lose/lose situation for people who use/grow it. The law says (in SA anyway) that you are allowed to have 2 plants for personal use....yet if you get caught with two plants you get fined anyway. I mean how does that work?? Something cant be legal and illegal at the same time

The word you need to understand is 'decriminalised' rather than 'legal'. Growing any marijuana in SA is not legal, it's just been decriminalised which means you get a fine rather than a conviction.

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by RacerX
The dealers get richer yet give back nothing to society.
B]

This is a big misconception in my opinion. Most dealers do not make money. Hell, their arent many dealers per se out there anymore. A large percentage of 'dealers' are simply people you know...your mates. This whole conception that their is this one sneaky guy at every club who pressurizes people into buying and taking these death pills is quite funny (im not saying you think this way btw). The chances are, one person you know is or has been a "dealer" at some time.

Back to my point...most dealers do not make money. To get these drugs, they have to buy these drugs in large quantities first. This means they have to originally pay for them. Most 'dealers' sell these drugs at the same price they buy them, or so that they get a very small profit. I mean...if they jack up the prices of these drugs then noone will buy them as they know that they would be able to get them cheaper somewhere else.

Really the only 'dealers' that make all the money are the "drug lords"....ie. pharmacists from Europe (where the majority of the worlds ecstacy pills originate from) and the like.

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by mantis
Docker Brat there is nothing wrong with pokies as long as people stay in control. I enjoy going to the pokies once or twice a year, I take my $20 & play till I lose it then I leave, or on the few occasions I win over $100, I take my winnings & run.

I am sick of the majority of peope who enjoy things have them taken away because of a minority of irresponsible people.

Ban pokies because some people abuse them, ban drinking because some people abuse it, ban some breeds of dogs because some morons own them, ban cars because some people are lunatics, the list goes on & on.

It is totally unfair that the, sensible law abiding person, has things they enjoy taken away because of a few morons.

ban drugs because some people use them idiotically and end up dead?
Its the same as most things in life.....the minority usually taints it for everyone else so the majority get an unfair label of 'thug' or 'druggie' or 'pokie addict'

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by sabre_ac
Drugs like speed and E's should carry a warning for uses and stricter penalties for dealers.

It takes a lot to become a dealer of ecstacy. From my belief, you cant actually be arrested for being caught with a few pills in your wallet. I believe 20 is the number of pills it is to become arrestable.
I mean...all the police would have to do is go to a rave and arrest the 98% of people there that have pills on them. Easy as that. Yet the police do not do this.

 

[skilts]

Originally posted by Santos L Helper


This is a joke right? Menzies equalled vision for right wing politics aimed at keeping the 'under-priviliged' just that.

Santos, I would agree with you about Menzies in all but two areas.
He was the one who kick-started an emphasis on education in Australia, paving the way for us to be not quite as stupid a country.
He also invested heavily in the development of Canberra. Some would say this was a bad idea, but if we were going to make Canberra the national capital, then we had to do something to prevent us becoming a laughing stock, because it was a country town.
The down side, of course was evidenced by the number of artists and other talented people who felt constrained to leave the country because of the phillistinism fostered by Menzies. What an enigma he was.
Seems not much has changed, judging by the number of people who have had to do the same thing during Howard's reign. He really has achieved his ambition of a return to 50s values.

 

[Frodo]

IMO the development of Canberra as a capital was and is a joke.

The majority of people in the world still believe that Sydney is the capital of Australia and so it should be.

Even Virgin can't justify flying to Canberra.

 

[Briedis]

For my own personal experience of life I do not believe that smoking dope means that you will end up a "hard" drug addict. In fact, I know probably 15-20 people who smoke dope (not every day, but probably a couple of times a week on average) and NONE of them have ever tried any hard drugs.

The only person I know who uses heroin does not smoke dope, smoke cigarettes, drink or take any other drug. He suffered from schizophrenia and apparently heroin stopped a lot of his problems, which is why he started to use it. These days he is on methodone to try and get off it.

I can't see anything wrong with legalising pot. There are far more important things that our police force could and should be doing instead of busting people for smoking pot.

Also, why do we need to test for drugs such as pot and cocaine in AFL players? These are not performance enhancing drugs. If a player wishes to take these drugs it is a personal matter for that player only and should not be made public. Surely, publicising that a young kid's football hero is smoking dope is unnecessary.

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by Briedis

Also, why do we need to test for drugs such as pot and cocaine in AFL players? These are not performance enhancing drugs. If a player wishes to take these drugs it is a personal matter for that player only and should not be made public. Surely, publicising that a young kid's football hero is smoking dope is unnecessary.

Cocaine, Ecstasy and Heroin (a strange one) are on the performance enhancing drugs list.

 

[Briedis]

Originally posted by Macca19


Cocaine, Ecstasy and Heroin (a strange one) are on the performance enhancing drugs list.

Yes...but why? It's not the AFL's job to police illegal substances. They should just check for steriods and other known performance enhacing drugs and that's it.

 

[Hay Billy]

umm, I forget !