Was Gary Ablett a good captain at the Gold Coast?

[ABSOLUTE MADMAN]

Right now he remains one of their greatest captains.

 

[JVseven]

He was no Richmond.

 

[Pali23]

There is more to being a good leader than simply being a good player. He failed in nearly every other attribute, other than being a good role model for off field preparation. Rivals Griff for his 'leadership'.....

I'm interested in how anyone outside the group can make that assumption.

 

[99cents]

Best Captain they've ever had-


led them to their highest ever ladder position, won several B&F's

got them a lot of media attention



Edit- didn't see MADMAN's post above

 

[Giant Pete]

As I’ve said before: great player, terrible captain.

 

[Power Raid]

No

I'm a big fan of Gazza but he wasn't a great captain. In fact, I would go as far to say he was a terrible captain that caused division.

The club was divided between professionals and drug fkd party boys. It's hard to unite these two groups but that is exactly what a good leader does. A great leader has the ability to take the hard edge off the extreme professionals and allows them to smile and enjoy themselves. Whilst at the same time he can bring discipline and focus to the party boys.

Nathan Buckley and Mark Choco Williams were extreme professionals that although leaders, struggled with anyone not putting in 10,000%. As a result they struggled at times fitting in the squads. So Gazza in no orphan here.

I'm thinking Gazza's return to the cats, as just a player will refresh his career and enthusiasm for footy.

 

[99cents]

Side note- is it time for the AFL to introduce the Captain's armband, that we've seen in soccer?

 

[juss]

Side note- is it time for the AFL to introduce the Captain's armband, that we've seen in soccer?

If its not broken why fix it?

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Fantastic player but from the little I know of the inner workings at the Suns, probably not a great captain - though perhaps the environment and other staff around him didn't help matters either.

Seems like there was a lot of division and lack of cohesion with the players and IMO, the captain is partly responsible for bringing his teammates together. Definitely carried the team on his shoulders in many a game but brilliance as a player doesn't necessarily equate to team success. Not to mention that as a role model and mentor, I'm not sure how influential he was as developing some of the high draft picks they had. Can think of a few successes but GWS seem to have developed their crop of elite young players better than GCS which might be an indicator of GAJ's leadership also.

 

[Sir_Loin]

Firstly, a little history how Ablett got the captaincy. This wasn't your standard captaincy appointment. He got it by signing with the Suns.

You see, the captaincy was put in his contract as an incentive to leave Geelong and join the Suns, that the millions of dollars the AFL threw at him.

He was sold the lie that he would be the captain of a team, at that time, who were guaranteed premierships galore. Remember, everyone and his dog was saying that Gold Coast would win multiple flags. Who wouldn't want to be a captain of a young team of supposed champions who were on the path to glory?

Secondly, he was the "face" of the club, the marquee player. He would be the one who would be used with sponsors or sell memberships.

I saw on TV Gold Coast's first game. In the pre-match coverage, they showed the outside of the Gold Coast headquarters. There were pictures of Gazza everywhere. It was like Gold Coast had one player. Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket.

So, he got the captaincy as a token, whether he was right for it or not.

Also, if players didn't listen to him, that's their fault. It's the chain of command, and the players didn't want to be lead, by anyone. Ablett was smart enough not to do the drugs or get drunk, and some probably resented him for that. He set an example, and some refused to follow it. Now, do you force people to obey you? In the end, if some of the players would rather piss their life and career away on their own lifestyles, that is their choice, and no-one can stop them if they don't want to stop.

Also, Gold Coast have copped it in the press, so Ablett as captain have copped it. He hasn't been winning Brownlows or being All-Australian, so the press forget how good he is.

Also, if Ablett isn't a good captain, then who would do better?

I believe a captain leads on the field. I remember in 2015, Ablett was out for 12 weeks with an injury. Not one player stepped up and filled the leadership breach, in his absence. Tom Lynch was just starting out, so he wasn't ready for it, and none of the other leadership group stood up, and GC lost every game in Ablett's absence.

But then Ablett returned, against North Melbourne. Now, North made the PF in 2015, so they were a quality team that year. Yet Gold Coast thrashed them by 75 points, Ablett was best-on-ground, and every other Sun lifted and played their best game to that point that year. It is like his presence and example lifted the other players, and made them better too. A captain does that. A leader does that to a group. He led and they followed.

I think Ablett has got a bad rap, especially on "Footy Classified" where Garry Lyon, in particular, has an axe to grind against him, maybe because his dad hit Garry back in '89, and Garry has never got over it. I have heard Lyon talk about captaincy on his radio show, how great he was as a captain, and he measures all captains against himself, and he feels that Gazza falls short (yet his mate, Luke Hodge, measures up, despite drink driving a week before the 2015 finals, something Ablett never did). This coming from Garry Lyon, who failed as a "captain" of the Footy Show, by screwing Brownless's wife.

GAJ should sue:

Garry Lyon
The AFL
Gold Coast and
Every single one of his Gold Coast team mates

It’s dispicable what they did to him

 

[JG22]

Yes he couldn't really have done anymore.

People just want to go after him no matter what.

The guy would literally get 45 touches a game and get bagged for getting 'too much' of the ball.

 

[master bate]

Ablett was a poor captain but the job was almost impossible. Look at the other senior players, then remember they had a first time coach, poor facilities and no real identity.

Rischitelli was the only reliable senior player up there and he had a lot of injuries.
Brennan - disaster
Campbell Brown - ok for a while then punched a bloke and got the sack
Bock - don't even start
Harbrow - ok but got caught DUI on the way to training!
Matty Warnock, Josh Fraser, Daniel Harris, Danny Stanley - not up to it
Nathan Krakouer!
Nathan Ablett!
Andrew McQualter, Greg Broughton, Tom Murphy - yikes

They might've finally gotten some right with Barlow (great clubman), Witts (decent player) and Jarryd Lyons and Lynch and May are old enough to grow in to the role now.

Poor Gaz didn't stand a chance and his brilliant play was a big part of them running towards finals when the club itself could barely walk and eventually collapsed in to a mess.

GWS' strategy of signing the right cultural guys like Chad Cornes, Luke Power and James McDonald as well as only Davis, Ward, Scully and Palmer really as mature age types let them tank 3 years and come out the other side. Helped that Uncle Sheeds took all the media and deflected from the performance of the team whilst Choc Williams and then Leon Cameron could coach up the young players.

If Gaz was the inaugural co captain of the Giants with Davis then I think he'd still be in that role today and would be viewed as very successful. The extra concessions, list build model and more than anything the culture that was set up at the Giants was chalk and cheese compared to the Suns.

 

[Hamingja]

It's funny because Geelong fans always said he was never leadership material, when he was up there carrying the side on his back all opposition supporters were saying how wrong those calls were and now when he is back at Geelong again opposition supporters are like Ablett was always a terrible captain

 

[RUNVS]

There is more to being a good leader than simply being a good player. He failed in nearly every other attribute, other than being a good role model for off field preparation. Rivals Griff for his 'leadership'.....

I am not even sure if he was that, as he was teaching young players that they did not need to play well if they were injured, as he simply refused to play when he was carrying an injury.

 

[Luv_our_club]

more than once he resolved controversies about his playing future by selling his story to media outlets like the footy show. not good.

i still love him as a player!

 

[TedDougChris]

I am not even sure if he was that, as he was teaching young players that they did not need to play well if they were injured, as he simply refused to play when he was carrying an injury.

I think he was for a while, but do agree to some extent with what you have said.

 

[TedDougChris]

I'm interested in how anyone outside the group can make that assumption.

Will reply a bit later, too hard to type a lengthy response on the phone....

 

[JackFlash]

Ablett jr succeeded in every way at Gold Coast, in every attribute. He cannot be blamed because he was sold a "pup".
Sacked coaches, drug scandals, over paid players from other codes, top 10 draft picks leaving in droves, no finals and in the end they left him holding the can...
He gave his all, he was a good Captain trying to lead by example under insurmountable odds, how could he teach anyone anything at all if the majority of the list didn't want to be there? It got to him eventually and his last two seasons were going through the motions, but i doubt we have ever seen a player dominate the competition like he did from 2011-2014 in a s**t team!
It was a huge mistake going up there in the first place, but Ablett jr is not the blame for the Gold Coast disaster.

 

[RUNVS]

It's funny because Geelong fans always said he was never leadership material, when he was up there carrying the side on his back all opposition supporters were saying how wrong those calls were and now when he is back at Geelong again opposition supporters are like Ablett was always a terrible captain

and yet it is Geelong supporters mostly defending him in this thread.

 

[Catters 070911]

I am not even sure if he was that, as he was teaching young players that they did not need to play well if they were injured, as he simply refused to play when he was carrying an injury.

People bag him for not playing with injury.

Isn't the saying that you can't use injury as an excuse once you have crossed the white line.

So if he played injured and didn't play a 30+ possession game, he would be criticised.

If he doesn't play while injured, he gets criticized.

He can't win.

How about every other player carrying injuries also keep playing? If someone has an ACL, why don't they still take to the field, or they are letting their side down? Why is it wrong for Gazza to get injured, but okay when any other player does?

 

[Catters 070911]

Ablett was a poor captain but the job was almost impossible. Look at the other senior players, then remember they had a first time coach, poor facilities and no real identity.

Rischitelli was the only reliable senior player up there and he had a lot of injuries.
Brennan - disaster
Campbell Brown - ok for a while then punched a bloke and got the sack
Bock - don't even start
Harbrow - ok but got caught DUI on the way to training!
Matty Warnock, Josh Fraser, Daniel Harris, Danny Stanley - not up to it
Nathan Krakouer!
Nathan Ablett!
Andrew McQualter, Greg Broughton, Tom Murphy - yikes

They might've finally gotten some right with Barlow (great clubman), Witts (decent player) and Jarryd Lyons and Lynch and May are old enough to grow in to the role now.

Poor Gaz didn't stand a chance and his brilliant play was a big part of them running towards finals when the club itself could barely walk and eventually collapsed in to a mess.

GWS' strategy of signing the right cultural guys like Chad Cornes, Luke Power and James McDonald as well as only Davis, Ward, Scully and Palmer really as mature age types let them tank 3 years and come out the other side. Helped that Uncle Sheeds took all the media and deflected from the performance of the team whilst Choc Williams and then Leon Cameron could coach up the young players.

If Gaz was the inaugural co captain of the Giants with Davis then I think he'd still be in that role today and would be viewed as very successful. The extra concessions, list build model and more than anything the culture that was set up at the Giants was chalk and cheese compared to the Suns.

I think GWS are getting a good run too, but their time is coming, and I think they might hit the wall too in a few years. They can't keep losing players to other clubs every season and keep making finals.

Look at them so far. They were supposed to have won a few flags by now, but they can't even get into a Grand Final yet.

I think GWS were benefitted by having an extra draft to pick up heaps of recruits. They had two drafts to get 20 of the first 25 players in, Gold Coast only had one.

 

[RUNVS]

People bag him for not playing with injury.

Isn't the saying that you can't use injury as an excuse once you have crossed the white line.

So if he played injured and didn't play a 30+ possession game, he would be criticised.

If he doesn't play while injured, he gets criticized.

He can't win.

How about every other player carrying injuries also keep playing? If someone has an ACL, why don't they still take to the field, or they are letting their side down? Why is it wrong for Gazza to get injured, but okay when any other player does?

The problem is that players need to play with injury. By the finals a good portion of all lists would have players playing with injuries. If all players in a team said "nope, we are not playing unless we are 100% fit" like Ablett did then that club would not have a chance in hell of winning the flag. Playing with injuries, playing through the injuries is an important part of being an AFL player.

 

[Catters 070911]

GAJ should sue:

Garry Lyon
The AFL
Gold Coast and
Every single one of his Gold Coast team mates

It’s dispicable what they did to him

No, he shouldn't sue them.

But Garry Lyon needs to be knocked off his high horse where he acts like he has all the answers, when his own private life and morality is questionable. At least Ablett doesn't cheat with a mate's wife.

Not every single one of his Gold Coast teammates either, but some of the younger ones needed to pull their heads in. Also, the other members of the leadership group needed to get behind Gary and tell the other players to get behind him too. It is chain of command, and any player who doesn't want to follow a captain can go elsewhere.

 

[Catters 070911]

The problem is that players need to play with injury. By the finals a good portion of all lists would have players playing with injuries. If all players in a team said "nope, we are not playing unless we are 100% fit" like Ablett did then that club would not have a chance in hell of winning the flag. Playing with injuries, playing through the injuries is an important part of being an AFL player.

I repeat, so are you saying that if a player has an ACL, for example, that they still need to play, because otherwise they are letting the team down?

The biggest thing in this is that the medical staff at Gold Coast's integrity is being questioned, since they are the ones who know if Ablett is legit injured or not, so either they are lying and he is faking, or he has a real injury which he needs time off for.

On your theory, then no player should ever not play because of injury ever again, since anyone who does is letting the team down. I mean, how dare a player cop an injury, and affect their team's flag chances. How selfish to take time off because of injury. Come on, those players with knee injuries, for being big wimps who can't play on one leg.

You do realise, don't you, that Ablett isn't taking time off for some niggles. He had a shoulder injury, where the shoulder bone kept coming out. Rest is needed to get it right. Just because there is a leadership vacuum at Gold Coast without him, isn't his fault, but others who have failed to step up in his absence.

 

[Catters 070911]

and yet it is Geelong supporters mostly defending him in this thread.

Because most opposition supporters are jealous that they have never had a player as incredible as Gary Ablett.... and his dad too.