Was Jock McHale the 1930 Premiership coach?

GOALden Hawk

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Just wondering how the AFL determines whether a coach actually coached a team?

In AFL 2002 McHale is credited with 8 premierships - yet in 1930 he wasn't actually at the ground, he was sick with influenza and Robert Rush took over.

Rush is credited with coaching 1 game for 1 win in 1930, yet McHale gets the premiership.

Even more confusing, Peter Schwab is credited with coaching all 25 games in 2001. This seems wrong to me, because Chris Connolly was the coach for the Carlton game in Round 17 when Schwabby fell ill.

Yet Connolly isn't credited with coaching a game. However previous instances of this occurring (ie when Darryl Baldock fell ill coaching St. Kilda) have credited his fill in??

What are your thoughts? Had Chris Connolly actually coached a game before he took the Freo job? And did McHale actually coach the 1930 premiership team to victory?
 

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manmountain

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FWIW I'd credit the flag to Jock - a premiership takes a year to build, McHale did most of the work, just couldn't be there on the day.

As for the other one, just a discrepancy. Scwab will coach plenty of games so it won't matter in the grand scheme of things, but gee you'd be dirty if you only filled in once and it wasn't credited.
 

cjwalkley

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I disagree. Ask Derek Kickett if he regards himself as a Premiership player. Players don't have the luxury of missing the GF through sickness, yet still be premiership players, so McHale wasn't the 1930 Premiership Coach, rush was.
 

GOALden Hawk

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Originally posted by cjwalkley
I disagree. Ask Derek Kickett if he regards himself as a Premiership player. Players don't have the luxury of missing the GF through sickness, yet still be premiership players, so McHale wasn't the 1930 Premiership Coach, rush was.
That's the view I take as well - if he wasn't even at the ground I can't see how he can be credited as been the coach.

And I reckon Connolly was definitely coach Round 17 last year, it's silly to give it to Schwab. That makes Connolly the most successful Hawthorn coach in history (100% record!)
 

Dan26

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Originally posted by cjwalkley
I disagree. Ask Derek Kickett if he regards himself as a Premiership player. Players don't have the luxury of missing the GF through sickness, yet still be premiership players, so McHale wasn't the 1930 Premiership Coach, rush was.
If CEO of the AFL Wayne Jackson calls in sick on the last day of the financial year, and Andrew Demetious takes his place for one day and someone asks on the 30 June , "Who was the CEO of the AFL for the year just passed?", is the answer Andrew Demetriou? No, of course not.

Rush can't take credit for a premiership on the back of one game. That's stupid. McHale was the head coach. There is more to a premiership than just the last game of the year.

As far as I'm concerend Derek Kickett, ws just as much part of Essendon's 1993 flag as any of the 20 players on Grand Final day. So, what if he didn't play in the last game? That doesn't mean he didn't contribute to the premiership team over the year. He played a vital role in the team that would go on to win the flag.

Anyone who plays at leats one match for the year should be awarded a premiership medal, because they have contributed to the premiership team, and been a part of it, during the year in which they won the flag.
 

GOALden Hawk

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That's what they do everywhere else. In the English Premier League I think you have to have made 10 appearances however, while in the NBA even if you didn't make it onto the court once you get it!

I reckon a senior game should be enough to qualify you.
 

Captain Sensible

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He may not have been there but...

The story goes though that at 1/2 time when Collingwood were behind and looked like losing the game Rush told the players that McHale was at home listening on the radio and that he would know that the players were not putting in. The players pulled their finger out and won the game



So even though he wasnt at the ground his presence was writ large over the win.
 

GOALden Hawk

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Re: He may not have been there but...

Originally posted by localyokel
The story goes though that at 1/2 time when Collingwood were behind and looked like losing the game Rush told the players that McHale was at home listening on the radio and that he would know that the players were not putting in. The players pulled their finger out and won the game



So even though he wasnt at the ground his presence was writ large over the win.
That sounds like an old wives tale to me - I'm pretty sure radio broadcasts of football matches didn't start until 1932! Could be wrong though.
 

Handsome.B.Wonderful

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Bump.

Read a tweet by Rhett Bartlett about the AFL deducting 4 games from Jack Dyer’s record of 226 games, so it now stands at 222. Hardwick equals that this week.

A subsequent tweet reveals that Jock McHale was not at the ground in 1930 when Collingwood won the premiership. Is it right that the AFL continues to honour this, seemingly just to protect McHale’s record of 8 Premierships?
 

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Occidental

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Who was the coach that year? Who coached all year? Who had the title of ‘coach’ for the year? Who coached them to the Grand Final?
But someone 80 years later thinks it needs a look at, irrespective that people at the time knew who the coach was.
Let’s ignore what the people of the time did, knew and acknowledged.
We obviously know better now than they all did.
 

Dazzler10

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Who was the coach that year? Who coached all year? Who had the title of ‘coach’ for the year? Who coached them to the Grand Final?
But someone 80 years later thinks it needs a look at, irrespective that people at the time knew who the coach was.
Let’s ignore what the people of the time did, knew and acknowledged.
We obviously know better now than they all did.
The counter argument is 'But who made the moves on game day?'

I see both sides of this argument. It was obviously Jock McHale's side, so he deserves the bulk of the credit. But players who play all season but miss the granny aren't considered premiership players. Should we apply this logic to coaching as well? I don't have an answer.
 

Professor Knowall

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... I see both sides of this argument. It was obviously Jock McHale's side, so he deserves the bulk of the credit. But players who play all season but miss the granny aren't considered premiership players. Should we apply this logic to coaching as well? I don't have an answer.
My answer is this that we should apply logic so that players who played most of the season, thus contributing in a major way to the team getting to the GF, but missed a winning GF due only to injury should be given a premiership medal.
 

Handsome.B.Wonderful

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My answer is this that we should apply logic so that players who played most of the season, thus contributing in a major way to the team getting to the GF, but missed a winning GF due only to injury should be given a premiership medal.
Do you believe they should be credited with playing a game even if they were not at the ground?

That is what we are talking about here, Jock McHale was at home in bed, he was not the coach on that day.
 

Occidental

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Should've been a Geelong flag and all challenge rule flags removed from the tally
What if the rules change sometime in the future and say we move to having conferences.
Should all pre-conference flags then be removed as they don’t match the new system?
 
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