Wayne Carey Says He Is Indigenous (or might be and might look into it one day)

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Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2009
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I never said they are getting a leg up unfairly, you just assumed that because you wanted to be outraged about something.
I'm not outraged, but statements about gaining advantage is a common enough complaint. But if it wasn't meant that way fine, better things to talk about..
 

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Malifice

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Totally false? You are what your lineage is, whether you acknowledge that or think it unimportant.
That's not the case. Race is a social construct, like gender (as opposed to biological sex). You cant be 'half' of an ethnic group. You're either a member of that ethnic group, or you're not.

You're using a really old fashioned and simple definition of ethnicity.
 

Malifice

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The fact is if you have two people with identical backgrounds but one is white and the other is aboriginal
How is that even possible? How can a white person have the same background, experiences of racism (both current, and entrenched from that background) and so forth as an Aboriginal person?
 

Kappa

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How is that even possible? How can a white person have the same background, experiences of racism (both current, and entrenched from that background) and so forth as an Aboriginal person?
It's called a hypothetical to explain a point...
 

Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
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That's not the case. Race is a social construct, like gender (as opposed to biological sex). You cant be 'half' of an ethnic group. You're either a member of that ethnic group, or you're not.

You're using a really old fashioned and simple definition of ethnicity.
I'm pretty sure I told you that I clumsily used an old fashioned definition and that I agreed with you that it was old fashioned.
How is gender a social construct? Elements of but male and female and those inbetween are born that way essentially.
Race is part of your DNA surely.
You can easily be half an ethnic group, you used Sedanta yourself as an example.
You think people belong to only one ethnicity, 3/4 of Australians belong to more than one ethnicity, feeling part of both.
You've lost me.
 

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Power Raid

TheBrownDog
Oct 15, 2004
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Do those provide an advantage? The provide an opportunity, but there are many, many ways to gain entrance to university. A scholarship or program to encourage indigenous students isn't necessarily an advantage in practice.

Similarly: indigenous employment programs exist. Does that mean it is actually easier, in practice to be employed? Not necessarily. It may just encourage and support more people to apply in the first place.

To give an example in a slightly different context: a friend I know ran a company that employed warehouse staff. They had almost 100% male applicants for positions, even though there was no gender advantage in the role at all. They advertised a position for women only, and now employ essentially 50% of each, entirely on merit. It was simply the case that for a variety of reasons, women would ONLY apply for the role when tagged as such.

Women don't have an advantage in employment there... it just encouraged them to actually apply (presumably because they had been discouraged from applying previously for a range of cultural and personal reasons)
corporate Australia is doing the right thing, with positive discrimination, actively seeking and employing aborigines

it should be seen as a hand up rather than a hand out.
 

Ishmael_

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I actually listened to the interview and thought it was fairly nuanced, especially for Triple M and Wayne Carey.

He also elaborated on the fact that he was considered culturally Indigenous by his peers and social group as a kid, his uncle and cousins are considered indigenous, amongst other interesting points.

Quite an interesting story and not nearly as a reductive as the headlines or the posts in this thread would lead you to believe.
 

CKW86

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Jun 8, 2021
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Ohhh look another group of non-Indigenous people thinking they can decide who or who isn’t Aboriginal. The coloniser blood runs deep doesn’t it. Why do you mob think you are entitled to pick apart someone’s identity? It’s none of your business and you have absolutely no say it in. White male opinions have been canceled today thanks. To the 2 blokes; 1 who can’t get across Aboriginal deaths in custody and the other who thinks women have equal opportunities- you are dumb and reading your posts made me 10% dumber. If you don’t talk or post people won’t know how dumb you are. Balu
 

north_lad

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Oct 26, 2003
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Ohhh look another group of non-Indigenous people thinking they can decide who or who isn’t Aboriginal. The coloniser blood runs deep doesn’t it. Why do you mob think you are entitled to pick apart someone’s identity? It’s none of your business and you have absolutely no say it in. White male opinions have been canceled today thanks. To the 2 blokes; 1 who can’t get across Aboriginal deaths in custody and the other who thinks women have equal opportunities- you are dumb and reading your posts made me 10% dumber. If you don’t talk or post people won’t know how dumb you are. Balu
Strong first post. Pretty good points too
 

HairyO

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Ohhh look another group of non-Indigenous people thinking they can decide who or who isn’t Aboriginal. The coloniser blood runs deep doesn’t it. Why do you mob think you are entitled to pick apart someone’s identity? It’s none of your business and you have absolutely no say it in. White male opinions have been canceled today thanks. To the 2 blokes; 1 who can’t get across Aboriginal deaths in custody and the other who thinks women have equal opportunities- you are dumb and reading your posts made me 10% dumber. If you don’t talk or post people won’t know how dumb you are. Balu
As a % of prison population less Aborigines die than the overall % dying. Also, look at the causes of death.

If you want to focus on something, focus on the rate of incarceration.
 

Malifice

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Oct 2, 2007
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Reality hey? Don't more females graduate uni than males?
They do. But then they encounter the glass ceiling, wind up having to make decisions about having kids/ taking time off work that men don't and wind up falling far behind (as a collective).

They're also underrepresented in Corporate CEO's, Executives, Politicians, millionaires, billionaires and so forth.
 

CKW86

Cancelled
Jun 8, 2021
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As a % of prison population less Aborigines die than the overall % dying. Also, look at the causes of death.

If you want to focus on something, focus on the rate of incarceration.
Yep whatever . My mob go to jail for being drunk in public and white pedophile priests get off for years of systemic child abuse. The gaps still not closed and white people still want to argue on footy apps about why we are so advantaged now. Thanks for the big opportunity to get into Uni or a big company (both white systems we never asked to be introduced) I guess that makes up for genocide? Makes up grandparents living on a mission and not being able to work, vote, practice culture or live freely. We are talking not even that long ago. I guess now we’ve totally caught up. Stop talking about Wayne Carey’s Aboriginality - you sound the missions managers and the governors of the ‘Aborigine Welfare Board’ of 1901. By picking this apart you are STILL carrying on the racist attitudes of your white ancestors. Wayne might have 4 generations of white heritage and 6000 generations of Aboriginal heritage. How does that grab ya ? Either way - you have no say in it. You never did , you never will and clearly that makes you all the uncomfortable because white people think they run every bloody thing, even our own mobs heritage.
 

Kram

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They do. But then they encounter the glass ceiling, wind up having to make decisions about having kids/ taking time off work that men don't and wind up falling far behind (as a collective).

They're also underrepresented in Corporate CEO's, Executives, Politicians, millionaires, billionaires and so forth.
Seems to be at least gradually changing over time with a lot of public companies trying to push female representation at board level.
 

HairyO

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Yep whatever . My mob go to jail for being drunk in public and white pedophile priests get off for years of systemic child abuse. The gaps still not closed and white people still want to argue on footy apps about why we are so advantaged now. Thanks for the big opportunity to get into Uni or a big company (both white systems we never asked to be introduced) I guess that makes up for genocide? Makes up grandparents living on a mission and not being able to work, vote, practice culture or live freely. We are talking not even that long ago. I guess now we’ve totally caught up. Stop talking about Wayne Carey’s Aboriginality - you sound the missions managers and the governors of the ‘Aborigine Welfare Board’ of 1901. By picking this apart you are STILL carrying on the racist attitudes of your white ancestors. Wayne might have 4 generations of white heritage and 6000 generations of Aboriginal heritage. How does that grab ya ? Either way - you have no say in it. You never did , you never will and clearly that makes you all the uncomfortable because white people think they run every bloody thing, even our own mobs heritage.
Assuming my skin colour is rather racist of you.

Also, walls of text are very hard to read.
 

Malifice

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How is gender a social construct?
How is it not? Boys wear blue, women wear pink, pants vs heels and dresses. Long hair vs short. Dolls v toy guns 'father v mother' etc. Gender roles and norms are entirely socially constructed.

I'm not talking about biological sex here. I'm talking about gender.

Race is part of your DNA surely.
Not necessarily, but nearly all ethnic groups require a prospective member to (generally) exhibit biological features commonly associated with that ethnic group and/or show a clear line of biological descent.

This is particularly prominent in Korea, where black Koreans (those with a Black parent) are not considered by other Koreans to be Korean. Native Americans use a strict blood ratio (you cant have more than X number of non Indian parents). And so forth.

'Races' are not biologically discreet, immutable things with clear lines of demarcation. I mean your average English descended Aussie has multiple ethnicities in him or her. 'Anglo-Celtic' is the general term for English Aussies, which implies a mix of two different races right there off the bat, plus his or her likely Saxon/ Viking blood, his or her French Norman blood, his or her Italian and Spanish blood (from hundreds of years of Roman rule of the British Isles) and more (and that's before you consider any Semitic or Arab blood from Jewish or Arab ancestors, or the fact we all came from Africa to begin with when we were all Black, and that's just at the start of European colonization).

You cant just walk from the Congo to Norway and see different 'races' stop and other 'races' start. You'll see a gradual lightening of skin as you walk away from the equator, multiple different heights in clusters and so on and so forth. There are no clear biological lines of demarcation between 'races' - the lines we do have to distinguish them are entirely socially constructed (we all agree on what the races are, who gets to be one, and who doesn't).

In many cases (heck, in most of them) we attribute biological traits to these socially constructed races. They're not universal though, even within the same race or ethnic group.

You can easily be half an ethnic group, you used Setanta yourself as an example.
You walk up to him and tell him he's 'half Irish'. I dare you.

It wont end well.

He's of Irish background (and is Irish), and he's of Fijian background. He's both. Not half of either.

You think people belong to only one ethnicity, 3/4 of Australians belong to more than one ethnicity, feeling part of both.
No, people can belong to multiple ethnicities. But not as half of one. You either are one, or you're not.
 

Malifice

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Is this a Rachel Dolezal situation?
She identified as black (and briefly) was accepted as such (until everyone found out she was faking it).

She certainly lacks the elements of decent (including biological decent, which you cant be black unless you have as a general rule) and lacks the shared and personal experiences of a black woman in the USA, and doesnt suffer any of the effects of the entrenched racism that's affected Black Americans either.

So TLDR, she's not black, no matter how much she says she is.
 

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