WCE peak Judd was better than peak GAJ and peak Dustin Martin

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loki04

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Aug 29, 2005
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Replace Cousins and Kerr with spuds such as Murphy and Gibbs and it's no wonder Judd never got close to another flag with Carlton

WC whole game plan revolved around blocking and holding judds opponents and opening running lanes for Judd. Very well done I might add.

He was a beast in his prime but made to look much better by the head bob at pace, thought he was a pretty average field kick but most people seemed to be to in awe of his sprint out of congestion to care.
 

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JackFlash

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Gary Ablett Jr is the benchmark of every midfielder of the past 20 years. Judd was a good player, but he's behind, Ablett, Martin, Fyfe at their peak and on a par with Swan, Pendlebury and probably Oliver.. He's a top 10 player no doubt it. But Ablett jr at his peak has some daylight between him and the next best.
 

Headless

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Gary Ablett Jr is the benchmark of every midfielder of the past 20 years. Judd was a good player, but he's behind, Ablett, Martin, Fyfe at their peak and on a par with Swan, Pendlebury and probably Oliver.. He's a top 10 player no doubt it. But Ablett jr at his peak has some daylight between him and the next best.
Peak Judd is absolutely not behind those players you've listed. I love Oliver but I'm taking Judd every day.

Think Judd might be the best I've seen.
 

JackFlash

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Peak Judd is absolutely not behind those players you've listed. I love Oliver but I'm taking Judd every day.

Think Judd might be the best I've seen.
It's all subjective. I hate comparing players from different eras, IMO you can't compare players from more than five years ago as rules have changed so much, it's a totally different game. I'll stick to my guns and still say Ablett jr from 2007 -14 is the midfielder benchmark. Judd is among the best of the rest on a long list, but i still have him behind Martin and Fyfe. Then you have those who came before him? Voss, Hird, Black, Buckley, Williams etc? I don't think Judd is the best WCE player ever, but many believe so.
 

the dog's kennel

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I think people confuse "exciting" with "good". Judd was capable of electric moments that very few if any other midfielders could match. But he wasn't doing that all game every game. I think Ablett was more consistently brilliant over 22 weeks. But Judd wasn't far behind.

By the way - a player who never gets mentioned in this conversation is Jason Akermanis. But he had plenty of electric moments himself - and also was consistently brilliant. Personally I think he is just about the most underrated great of the last 2 decades.
 

Scotland

TheBrownDog
May 5, 2006
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Peak Judd reminded me of Robert Harvey with the pace and flair of Peter Matera. He was the best centre bounce midfielder we've ever had, and kicked a goal a game.

When he won his first Brownlow players weren't getting 30 touches a game for fun. Nigel Lappin was the only player to rack up 600 touches in 2004 at 25 a game. When he won his second 15 players had 600 touches for the year and 3 averaged 30 a game. Those 2 Brownlows were only 6 years apart but expectations of what midfielder numbers should look like haven't been the same since.

Statistical best seasons WC vs Carlton with individual vs team total.

2006: clearances 142/866, tackles 112/1306
2011: 159/966, 148/1712

He was +17 clearances and +36 tackles, but his team was +100 clearances and + 406 tackles respectively.

Peak Judd wasn't clearly better than the other mids the way peak Franklin was clearly better than any of the other key forwards of the era, but anyone who thinks he was never at the level of Ablett or Martin or whoever wasn't watching.
 

Freomaniac

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He was a handy steak knives in the Dennis Armfield trade

Sent from my CPH2005 using Tapatalk
Nah west coast won that trade off the back of getting Tony Notte lol.

West coast got Kennedy pic 3 in Chris Masten and pick 20 in Tony Notte lol
 

Freomaniac

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Peak Judd reminded me of Robert Harvey with the pace and flair of Peter Matera. He was the best centre bounce midfielder we've ever had, and kicked a goal a game.

When he won his first Brownlow players weren't getting 30 touches a game for fun. Nigel Lappin was the only player to rack up 600 touches in 2004 at 25 a game. When he won his second 15 players had 600 touches for the year and 3 averaged 30 a game. Those 2 Brownlows were only 6 years apart but expectations of what midfielder numbers should look like haven't been the same since.

Statistical best seasons WC vs Carlton with individual vs team total.

2006: clearances 142/866, tackles 112/1306
2011: 159/966, 148/1712

He was +17 clearances and +36 tackles, but his team was +100 clearances and + 406 tackles respectively.

Peak Judd wasn't clearly better than the other mids the way peak Franklin was clearly better than any of the other key forwards of the era, but anyone who thinks he was never at the level of Ablett or Martin or whoever wasn't watching.
I hated Judd mainly because he played for west coast.

Saying that Judd's peak at West coast was around 2004 (his Brownlow medal 🥇 year) to 2007 when he left west coast as a 24 or 25 year old.

Other Eagles miss like Embley, Braun, Kerr and cousins had good seasons in that 2005-7 period. 2005-6 Eagles made grand finals. 2007, Eagles missed out on top 2 by percentage.

I was there in that infamous 2007 qualifying final between port and west coast.

Had west coast beaten port in that qualifying final, they would of beaten north Melbourne in Perth in the preliminary final. Don't know if cousins would of had his hamstring fixed in time but Judd and Kerr leading the midfield would of got the Eagles over the line vs North.
 

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TheRealComptroller

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Jul 27, 2006
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FWIW

He never had a 40 touch game. That is pretty pathetic IMO. FYI IIRC Jack Macrae had one while still a teenager. Joel Selwood had one in his second season.

He kicked 4+ goals only three times.

Never won the AFLCA award.

Never considered the best player of the year by News Ltd. I don’t know if Fairfax ever did.

Judd is not in the top ten for most 30+ touches & 2+ goals, GAJ did this 54 times, Swan had 32, Buckley had 26, Boomer 24, Danger 23, Beams 21, Dusty 19, Barry Mitchell 16, Robert Harvey and Garry Hocking 15. I don’t know how many times Judd managed to do this; that’s where the list stops. Let’s be very generous and say he just missed this list and had 14 games with this output - in that case GAJ did it >3x more often and Swan did it >2x and Buckley and Danger almost 2x.

In a nutshell - Judd didn’t score that much, didn’t get that much of the ball and didn't use it very well; he was certainly no Darren Jarman. He couldn’t kick it very far or reliably kick it straight. I remember being amazed at how high his “critical error” numbers were. I recall him as an Eagle perform many breathtaking moves away from the stoppage but then waste that brilliance by missing the pass to Lynch or Hunter by a considerable distance. People thought his shoulders were the reason he didn’t get picked at #1 in 2001 but his modest kicking skills is apparently the true reason.
 

kreuze_missile

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Three hall of fame legends. Unquestionably.

Dustin Martin often plays like the H&A season doesn't matter but his grand final record speaks for itself. On the biggest stage he's played three of the all-time great grand finals. He is capable of being the most damaging of the three and I rate him #1 for this reason.

GAJ's peak consisted of racking up handballs playing for a perennial wooden spooner. Brilliant career, hall of fame legend for sure, but his legacy gets tainted somewhat for playing so many years up north getting completely flogged every week. IMO GAJ's "peak" can't be properly judged for this reason.

Peak Judd was a gun but overrated and the worst of the three. I do laugh that people claim that Judd's peak was only at WCE.. he won a BROWNLOW MEDAL at Carlton, consinstely carried a rather average Carlton side to many finals campaigns, and was one of (if not THE) best player in the comp while wearing navy.
 

bigboysdontcry

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Absolutely agree with this! Peak West Coast Judd is one of the best players I’ve ever seen! Ablett over longevity was the better player but give me Judd in his early 20’s!
 

Upgrayedd

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Peak Judd? Like your inserting one of those players in the team and getting their best? I'm taking Judd no question.

However we downplay his groin and Shoulder issues which really limited his peak. His years from 19-23 were phenomenal and better then anyone elses Ive seen

He had maybe 7 minutes in a WAFL match where people were like "just take him out now he's ready for AFL
 

Chief Ten Beers

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Judd cannot be considered as an all time great, because of the player he turned out to be.

I don't remember him much to match the "hype" displayed here in West Coast days, but I do remember him to be the eye gouging, mercenary chicken wing tackler of a player he came to be.

Dustin Martin, has been loyal and solid for a much longer period.
 

Corn Cobbers

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Dec 9, 2015
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Judd cannot be considered as an all time great, because of the player he turned out to be.

I don't remember him much to match the "hype" displayed here in West Coast days, but I do remember him to be the eye gouging, mercenary chicken wing tackler of a player he came to be.

Dustin Martin, has been loyal and solid for a much longer period.
You left out the pressure points
 

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