Roast 6 from 17. Despite Momentum We are REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY s**t - Warning includes club criticisms

[Sanders]

I doubt many of the modern callers sit down and watch every game and do the research a guy like Bruce McAvaney does.

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Any actual basis for this speculation?

 

[Sanders]

Based on (a) their inability to identify players or (b) rabbiting on about a players' qualities despite the fact said player has not been showing those qualities for some time or (c) not really knowing anything about us - I reckon it's a foregone conclusion that they absolutely DON'T watch our games unless they are assigned to commentate on them.

I can’t identify half our players sometimes, and for my sins I certainly watch us more than we merit.

Qualities are the sort of subjectivity that isn’t a hill for anyone to plant their flag too deep

Not knowing anything about us, is only 1 step removed from [insert here] is biased/dislikes/ignorant against us

 

[Sanders]

If a win against North has changed anyones mind, those people are idiots.

Well quite.

It’s one thing to enjoy a win (and really I think everyone did), and something quite different to them draw meaningful conclusions from that win

 

[woofsson]

Ok, a little offensive but I now know that you don't watch many games of AFL or the crows for that matter, and could not be overly aware of how the rebuild is going. I'm comfortable to save my time by assuming you have very little idea of how we are progressing beyond the win loss column.

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I hadn't seen them play this year but I thought Scorpus might have been exaggerating when he said Noble is one of the worst coaches of all time. Sure enough, that is the worst team I've seen in recent memory. Even worse than the Crows 2020 side.

how Bad/good was Noble at the Bays? Asking for an interstate friend.

 

[Sanders]

how Bad/good was Noble at the Bays? Asking for an interstate friend.

s**t

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Mod comment

A bit too many personal back-and-forths going on in here, put downs, lurk likes/laughs etc

Passion is great but just tone things down a bit please

 

[Slippery Pete]

Is it my imagination or did someone amend the title of this thread?

I remember it being “s**t” but now it seems we’ve progressed to “REALLY s**t.”

 

[LeftyLuke]

Well the coaching I just believed needed to be separated, and many of the recruiting complaints were going back to Galluci, McHenry and Jones, etc. I just think we need to draw a line with the rebuild, and it's with Nicks, and that's what I've put forth.

The coaching is complicated by the fact that we are the youngest team and most of our recruitment has been poor with exceptions. So the coach only has what is in front of him, and the fact picked most of the players he has recruited points to this, and that he wanted his own type of players. If Nicks says he loves a player he didn't recruit, remember he said he wanted Brad Crouch at the club. But he didn't.

I believe the coaches are trying to instill the right style of playing, which we hear every day is our DNA. Not bad, if you keep saying it everyone (at the club) will believe it, and we can see our pressure acts are usually elite standard for much of every game. I think that's a tick.

This is stage one, get the style of footy suitable for the playing group. If we have Gold Coasts' cattle, we'd probably be trying to play a little classier. But we don't.

My problem with the coaching is that I think Nicks has been thinking its going to come together a bit quicker than everyone else sees it, and for that reason is trying to win games by playing the so called best 22. This is why he started with Sloane, Laird, Crouch (when fit) and Keays. He thought it would click.

So my problem is more with match selection than with coaching.

However, with Sloane out and Crouch out, I'm liking our balance much better, and think we are agreeing that we are too slow, one dimensional and ineffective from the midfield.

So was Gold Coast beating us a sign that we aren't going to click (just by kicking straight), but actually need plan B, which is longer term.

I believe we just need to get games into the right players. If they are playing hard footy, that might get them through the next 2 years, when they will hopefully be able to play a more skilful brand of footy.

Where will we be in 2024? No Sloane, no Walker, no Seedsman, possible no Smith, Laird on the way out, no Brown, can't think of the others.

We will need another 7-10 first 22 players in the next 3 years. So by then, we'd better get those playing right now to 75 games or we are going to be rubbish. That's not coaching, that's match selection.

I have more confidence that our ability to trade and recruit quality players is there than I have for years, even with the same recruitment team. I'm happy with the aggressive style of football we are playing, and hope to see more and more players showing their skills (Fogarty getting it together, Soligo, Dawson, Berry, Parnell, etc).

I just think we need to stick with Nicks, understand the issue of having to clean out the squad and have the youngest team week in week out. Play tough footy because we can't play skillful footy. Try things, and when we can't execute, simplify. Keep at it, build games, build culture, loyalty, and the squad.

What happened last week with the public pressure on the selection resulting on dropping Crouch was sensational, it was like Nicks was saying, "see, we have no choice but to slow down the rebuild and play the youth".

You mentionrd no Walker. Is he leaving the club as he still has at least a year left in him?

 

[Slippery Pete]

They are not employed to know everything about the game.

They are employed to call the game in front of them. And use their general Football expertise to interpret what is happening.


I doubt many of the modern callers sit down and watch every game and do the research a guy like Bruce McAvaney does.

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I remember one game years ago, probably around the Craig era, it was three-quarter time of a game in Melbourne, and Bruce said the Crows in their entire history had only come back to win five times from a three-quarter time deficit away from home.

I‘d never heard that before and thought that was such an amazing stat. Really gave some context around how rare/significant the moment was.

He had such a great feel for commentary.

 

[jenny61_99]

I can’t identify half our players sometimes, and for my sins I certainly watch us more than we merit.

Qualities are the sort of subjectivity that isn’t a hill for anyone to plant their flag too deep

Not knowing anything about us, is only 1 step removed from [insert here] is biased/dislikes/ignorant against us

Difference is, Sanders, it’s just a hobby for you . But for commentators it’s supposed to be their job. They are paid to know this s**t. We aren’t! As much as Derwayne pisses me off, he clearly does his homework, knowing that Murray’s great grandpa’s, second cousin twice removed, used to play for Port Adelaide for a minute in the 1770s. But at least he actually does his homework.

 

[Sanders]

Difference is, Sanders, it’s just a hobby for you . But for commentators it’s supposed to be their job. They are paid to know this s**t. We aren’t! As much as Derwayne pisses me off, he clearly does his homework, knowing that Murray’s great grandpa’s, second cousin twice removed, used to play for Port Adelaide for a minute in the 1770s. But at least he actually does his homework.

I don’t think they are, and I’d say that trivia is supplied by a junior staffer

 

[Big Crow]

Listen to a few podcasts interviews with AFL commentators - There are plenty around. Most acknowledge they have different strengths, and sit somewhere on a spectrum between information based vs emotion based commentary.

By their own admission some watch every game and pour through the stats, while some watch only the games they are commentating that week and then switch off from footy completely when away from work.

The Bruce McAvaneys and Gerard Whateleys of the AFL landscape are special cases and not common. Dwayne Russell does do his research but then lacks the class to make it useful or enjoyable to listen to, and he lacks the impartiality too.

 

[Ramify]

Any actual basis for this speculation?

What comes out of their mouths is enough,no?

I'm sure most of them have better things to do than watch every game each week.
3-4 tops.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

I love him but Bruce's commentary wasn't great in those last few years.

 

[Gtowncrow]

I love him but Bruce's commentary wasn't great in those last few years.

Bruce and Dennis were the "dream team" for me. I can't believe the direction channel 7 have allowed their commentary to go.

 

[George Kramer]

So I think we can all agree our coaches are s**t. No one can defend Murphy in over Newchurch. Well maybe except for Mego Head and BACCS

 

[Dangerousfield]

So I think we can all agree our coaches are s**t. No one can defend Murphy in over Newchurch. Well maybe except for Mego Head and BACCS

Coaches can, like for like replacement, small forward who doesn't kick goals for a small forward who doesn't kick goals.

Then in the post match presser, lament our inability to convert forward chances.

Club is in no man's land, if we're rebuilding then actually try a few new players in place of ones that you know are of limited ceilings. One thing I know for certain is that McHenry, Murphy and Rowe are not, and will not be, finals standard players, but maybe, just maybe Newchurch could be - if he was given a try!

Last week against the hopeless Norf was a known low pressure game where we could have tried Newchurch, we missed the chance.

 

[George Kramer]

Coaches can, like for like replacement, small forward who doesn't kick goals for a small forward who doesn't kick goals.

Then in the post match presser, lament our inability to convert forward chances.

Club is in no man's land, if we're rebuilding then actually try a few new players in place of ones that you know are of limited ceilings. One thing I know for certain is that McHenry, Murphy and Rowe are not, and will not be, finals standard players, but maybe, just maybe Newchurch could be - if he was given a try!

Last week against the hopeless Norf was a known low pressure game where we could have tried Newchurch, we missed the chance.

I think Rowe is worth persevering with, he's better than Murphy and McHenry and can actually kick a goal

 

[Mr_Moogle]

I think Rowe is worth persevering with, he's better than Murphy and McHenry and can actually kick a goal

Definitely gone ahead of those two for mine. Still not sure about his long term prospects though.

 

[FR0GGY]

Definitely gone ahead of those two for mine. Still not sure about his long term prospects though.

Probaly don’t need to concern ourselves at this stage with players long term prospects when we’ve got players with troublesome short term prospects.

 

[rocket18]

I think Rowe is worth persevering with, he's better than Murphy and McHenry and can actually kick a goal

I think Rowes value/our perception of him is dragged down due to how useless Murph and Ned are, if they were even slightly competent in their forward role then we would see Rowe as OK. All 3 as a group is just a big NO, its like we playing one short each week.

 

[MRB37]

s**t

Tigers had more than a few shitty coaches between 95-05. Tony Symonds, Wayne Stringer, Tony McGuinness, Brenton Honor, Noble and then Peter Simmons who didn't even last a year, all had 35% or worse win percentages.

Wasn't until Mark Mickan came in that they came good and that was then followed with the crappy years of Kris Massie, Nick Stevens and Matthew Lokan.

 

[Ramify]

I think Rowe is worth persevering with, he's better than Murphy and McHenry and can actually kick a goal

Agree 100%. But if they insist, for whatever reason to select Murph and the runt, then flick them around the ground a bit until they find "their" spot ffs. WTF is there to lose...Ever...???

This absolute dearth of creativity and experimentation whilst you have the green light to do so suggests to me that you have no chance of wrestling a close final back onto our terms when needed(in the unlikely event that the opportunity were ever to present itself).

 

[adelaidecrows]

That advert advertising membership is terrible. Did Nick's make it?

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[Golumless]

Definitely gone ahead of those two for mine. Still not sure about his long term prospects though.

Likewise. Had a sneakily solid year for the most part.

I'm not totally convinced about them either, however I'm interested in seeing what another year under Burgo could do to Rowes game. After all, he's got a pretty solid base now and a lot of those offensive stats will increase as the team around him gets better (and it should).