Roast 6 from 17. Despite Momentum We are REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY s**t - Warning includes club criticisms

[LoBu]

I haven't seen too many people blaming our 2020 and 2021 drafts for us being really s**t. Pedlar is the only pick that looks a bit dodgy at this stage.

I would think not many have either.

But even though these are the 2 drafts under Nick's direction (and since the review so can include CEO etc), 73% of voters on the poll on this thread think Nicks will be fired with at least a year remaining on his contract.

I believe the club can distinguish between the pre-Nick and Nicks era and will see the contract out, possible extending (but way too early to tell), I'm just putting it to this thread that same proposition to counter the thought that Nicks should be fired.

Also I'm saying drafts but the original post includes trades.

 

[George Kramer]

I would think not many have either.

But even though these are the 2 drafts under Nick's direction (and since the review so can include CEO etc), 73% of voters on the poll on this thread think Nicks will be fired with at least a year remaining on his contract.

I believe the club can distinguish between the pre-Nick and Nicks era and will see the contract out, possible extending (but way too early to tell), I'm just putting it to this thread that same proposition to counter the thought that Nicks should be fired.

Also I'm saying drafts but the original post includes trades.

You concluded your original post with:

“Coaching, well that’s a different issue”

Nicks is the coach. No one is having a crack at Nicks because of our drafting during 20/21. Our drafting has been s**t for awhile, yes it’s been much better than previous years, but overall it’s been poor, just look at our midfield.

Now when you made that comment about coaching who were you talking about? If you think coaching is an issue why would Nicks be safe? What Nicks gets criticised for is game plan, selection and playing players out of position. Are you happy with these elements of his coaching? If not, what issues do you see that you were referring to in your initial post?

 

[LoBu]

You concluded your original post with:

“Coaching, well that’s a different issue”

Nicks is the coach. No one is having a crack at Nicks because of our drafting during 20/21. Our drafting has been s**t for awhile, yes it’s been much better than previous years, but overall it’s been poor, just look at our midfield.

Now when you made that comment about coaching who were you talking about? If you think coaching is an issue why would Nicks be safe? What Nicks gets criticised for is game plan, selection and playing players out of position. Are you happy with these elements of his coaching? If not, what issues do you see that you were referring to in your initial post?

Well the coaching I just believed needed to be separated, and many of the recruiting complaints were going back to Galluci, McHenry and Jones, etc. I just think we need to draw a line with the rebuild, and it's with Nicks, and that's what I've put forth.

The coaching is complicated by the fact that we are the youngest team and most of our recruitment has been poor with exceptions. So the coach only has what is in front of him, and the fact picked most of the players he has recruited points to this, and that he wanted his own type of players. If Nicks says he loves a player he didn't recruit, remember he said he wanted Brad Crouch at the club. But he didn't.

I believe the coaches are trying to instill the right style of playing, which we hear every day is our DNA. Not bad, if you keep saying it everyone (at the club) will believe it, and we can see our pressure acts are usually elite standard for much of every game. I think that's a tick.

This is stage one, get the style of footy suitable for the playing group. If we have Gold Coasts' cattle, we'd probably be trying to play a little classier. But we don't.

My problem with the coaching is that I think Nicks has been thinking its going to come together a bit quicker than everyone else sees it, and for that reason is trying to win games by playing the so called best 22. This is why he started with Sloane, Laird, Crouch (when fit) and Keays. He thought it would click.

So my problem is more with match selection than with coaching.

However, with Sloane out and Crouch out, I'm liking our balance much better, and think we are agreeing that we are too slow, one dimensional and ineffective from the midfield.

So was Gold Coast beating us a sign that we aren't going to click (just by kicking straight), but actually need plan B, which is longer term.

I believe we just need to get games into the right players. If they are playing hard footy, that might get them through the next 2 years, when they will hopefully be able to play a more skilful brand of footy.

Where will we be in 2024? No Sloane, no Walker, no Seedsman, possible no Smith, Laird on the way out, no Brown, can't think of the others.

We will need another 7-10 first 22 players in the next 3 years. So by then, we'd better get those playing right now to 75 games or we are going to be rubbish. That's not coaching, that's match selection.

I have more confidence that our ability to trade and recruit quality players is there than I have for years, even with the same recruitment team. I'm happy with the aggressive style of football we are playing, and hope to see more and more players showing their skills (Fogarty getting it together, Soligo, Dawson, Berry, Parnell, etc).

I just think we need to stick with Nicks, understand the issue of having to clean out the squad and have the youngest team week in week out. Play tough footy because we can't play skillful footy. Try things, and when we can't execute, simplify. Keep at it, build games, build culture, loyalty, and the squad.

What happened last week with the public pressure on the selection resulting on dropping Crouch was sensational, it was like Nicks was saying, "see, we have no choice but to slow down the rebuild and play the youth".

 

[adelaidecrows]

Well the coaching I just believed needed to be separated, and many of the recruiting complaints were going back to Galluci, McHenry and Jones, etc. I just think we need to draw a line with the rebuild, and it's with Nicks, and that's what I've put forth.

The coaching is complicated by the fact that we are the youngest team and most of our recruitment has been poor with exceptions. So the coach only has what is in front of him, and the fact picked most of the players he has recruited points to this, and that he wanted his own type of players. If Nicks says he loves a player he didn't recruit, remember he said he wanted Brad Crouch at the club. But he didn't.

I believe the coaches are trying to instill the right style of playing, which we hear every day is our DNA. Not bad, if you keep saying it everyone (at the club) will believe it, and we can see our pressure acts are usually elite standard for much of every game. I think that's a tick.

This is stage one, get the style of footy suitable for the playing group. If we have Gold Coasts' cattle, we'd probably be trying to play a little classier. But we don't.

My problem with the coaching is that I think Nicks has been thinking its going to come together a bit quicker than everyone else sees it, and for that reason is trying to win games by playing the so called best 22. This is why he started with Sloane, Laird, Crouch (when fit) and Keays. He thought it would click.

So my problem is more with match selection than with coaching.

However, with Sloane out and Crouch out, I'm liking our balance much better, and think we are agreeing that we are too slow, one dimensional and ineffective from the midfield.

So was Gold Coast beating us a sign that we aren't going to click (just by kicking straight), but actually need plan B, which is longer term.

I believe we just need to get games into the right players. If they are playing hard footy, that might get them through the next 2 years, when they will hopefully be able to play a more skilful brand of footy.

Where will we be in 2024? No Sloane, no Walker, no Seedsman, possible no Smith, Laird on the way out, no Brown, can't think of the others.

We will need another 7-10 first 22 players in the next 3 years. So by then, we'd better get those playing right now to 75 games or we are going to be rubbish. That's not coaching, that's match selection.

I have more confidence that our ability to trade and recruit quality players is there than I have for years, even with the same recruitment team. I'm happy with the aggressive style of football we are playing, and hope to see more and more players showing their skills (Fogarty getting it together, Soligo, Dawson, Berry, Parnell, etc).

I just think we need to stick with Nicks, understand the issue of having to clean out the squad and have the youngest team week in week out. Play tough footy because we can't play skillful footy. Try things, and when we can't execute, simplify. Keep at it, build games, build culture, loyalty, and the squad.

What happened last week with the public pressure on the selection resulting on dropping Crouch was sensational, it was like Nicks was saying, "see, we have no choice but to slow down the rebuild and play the youth".

The problem with Nicks is he can't coach. Out of the blue on Sunday, even the footy commentators pointed to Nicks being under pressure to remain coach if he lost the game. They don't just randomly say it. To me that suggest within the industry, there isn't a lot of love for Nicks and what he is doing. He has no idea and it shows. That game against North would have seen us lose by 50 points to most sides. We were crap, North are just a basket case. I dont think its even the players. Its all Nicks. We are seeing the result of 3 years of Nicks.

 

[LoBu]

The problem with Nicks is he can't coach. Out of the blue on Sunday, even the footy commentators pointed to Nicks being under pressure to remain coach if he lost the game. They don't just randomly say it. To me that suggest within the industry, there isn't a lot of love for Nicks and what he is doing. He has no idea and it shows. That game against North would have seen us lose by 50 points to most sides. We were crap, North are just a basket case. I dont think its even the players. Its all Nicks. We are seeing the result of 3 years of Nicks.

I'd argue the fox commentators don't see a lot of the crows, but just see the win loss.

But you have your opinion, and Nicks hasn't yet proven anything, I'd agree with that.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[adelaidecrows]

I'd argue the fox commentators don't see a lot of the crows, but just see the win loss.

But you have your opinion, and Nicks hasn't yet proven anything, I'd agree with that.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Mate, they talk and a lot of those guys would know a lot of people in the AFL community. Remember who one of our primary decision makers is and where he works.

 

[Dangerousfield]

just the proportion of players who are best 22 in this case, which is really high for the last drafts.

Clearly not a science, rating drafts is usually done by games played, brownlow votes, and at this level could be b&f votes or just games again.

There is always room for personal perspective for role players and weighting later draft picks vs expectations of higher draft picks

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I might be missing something but not sure any of those 2019 & 2020 drafts are Best 22 locks yet, still a long way to go for them to prove they are finals standard players!

 

[Sanders]

I'd argue the fox commentators don't see a lot of the crows, but just see the win loss.

You can’t argue that credibly without any basis for something you cant possibly know: in fact you just made it up to suit

 

[WetCrow1991]

The game on the weekend was very boring and we can hang our hat on being slightly better than North Melbourne. Yes, nearly 10 goals is only slightly better in this instance.

 

[LoBu]

Oh mate, Ive said Nicks is s**t for weeks and needs to go. Ive been very consistent.

No I get that, I meant why do you think he can't coach?

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[LoBu]

You can’t argue that credibly without any basis for something you cant possibly know: in fact you just made it up to suit

Well they don't seem to know our players that well, they pretty much only focus on the opposition, and generally dislike Adelaide.

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[Sanders]

No I get that, I meant why do you think he can't coach?

Can David Noble coach? If not, why not?

 

[adelaidecrows]

No I get that, I meant why do you think he can't coach?

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Game plan is terrible, selection is all over the place. the consistent downturn in form of senior players. Development is poor, we seem reliant on natural development over actual development. The putting Dawson behind the ball is staggering and as much as it saves goals, it clearly costs us goals with out inept use of the ball entering our 50. Nicks coaches to save his arse. Trying to stop 50 point losses at the expense of giving us the best chance to win.

 

[Bearded Clam]

I'd argue the fox commentators don't see a lot of the crows, but just see the win loss.

But you have your opinion, and Nicks hasn't yet proven anything, I'd agree with that.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

What?..

Fox commentators dont see a lot of the crows games?..

What do you think their job involves?.. do you think they commentate on 2 to 3 games every weekend and thats it?.. job done.

They are employed to know everything to know about the game.. i’d have my money on it that they would watch every single game they can live and those they cant they would watch the replays of during the week.

These people live and breathe football.. their job doesnt just stop during the week because there arent any games being played.. most also have other footy media committments and most of it requires “researching” the current subject by watching as much *ing football as they can.

 

[Golumless]

The problem with Nicks is he can't coach. Out of the blue on Sunday, even the footy commentators pointed to Nicks being under pressure to remain coach if he lost the game. They don't just randomly say it. To me that suggest within the industry, there isn't a lot of love for Nicks and what he is doing. He has no idea and it shows. That game against North would have seen us lose by 50 points to most sides. We were crap, North are just a basket case. I dont think its even the players. Its all Nicks. We are seeing the result of 3 years of Nicks.

Of course they don't randomly say it. The rebuild tag does not give you much cover outside of the first year, and of course, they're right. North was a must win to keep the wolves at bay seeing they've imploded and Adelaide stalled.

What you've missed though is those things are said because a coach isn't getting wins and doesn't have a record to cover it. An example of this, look how much Adam Simpson has flown under the radar this year. A coach like Noble, Nicks etc doesn't have that history and all it could takes is a poor turn of results for that bubble to burst.

 

[Geoffa32]

What?..

Fox commentators dont see a lot of the crows games?..

What do you think their job involves?.. do you think they commentate on 2 to 3 games every weekend and thats it?.. job done.

They are employed to know everything to know about the game.. i’d have my money on it that they would watch every single game they can live and those they cant they would watch the replays of during the week.

These people live and breathe football.. their job doesnt just stop during the week because there arent any games being played.. most also have other footy media committments and most of it requires “researching” the current subject by watching as much f*n football as they can.

They are not employed to know everything about the game.

They are employed to call the game in front of them. And use their general Football expertise to interpret what is happening.


I doubt many of the modern callers sit down and watch every game and do the research a guy like Bruce McAvaney does.

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[moogerfooger]

They are not employed to know everything about the game.

They are employed to call the game in front of them. And use their general Football expertise to interpret what is happening.

I doubt many of the modern callers sit down and watch every game and do the research a guy like Bruce McAvaney does.

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

It would help if they were actually at the ground instead of in a studio in South Melbourne.

 

[jenny61_99]

You can’t argue that credibly without any basis for something you cant possibly know: in fact you just made it up to suit

Based on (a) their inability to identify players or (b) rabbiting on about a players' qualities despite the fact said player has not been showing those qualities for some time or (c) not really knowing anything about us - I reckon it's a foregone conclusion that they absolutely DON'T watch our games unless they are assigned to commentate on them.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

I changed my mind on how bad North are.
I guess I’m an idiot for not knowing that already though.

I hadn't seen them play this year but I thought Scorpus might have been exaggerating when he said Noble is one of the worst coaches of all time. Sure enough, that is the worst team I've seen in recent memory. Even worse than the Crows 2020 side.

 

[LoBu]

Based on (a) their inability to identify players or (b) rabbiting on about a players' qualities despite the fact said player has not been showing those qualities for some time or (c) not really knowing anything about us - I reckon it's a foregone conclusion that they absolutely DON'T watch our games unless they are assigned to commentate on them.

For the worse match of the round, they tried to generate interest by stating the obvious, that if Adelaide lose we are worse than North, and that would be bad for Nicks.

To take that to mean they don't like what we are doing and have some kind of insight into our rebuild that they won't share is a bit naive, perhaps reinforcing some kind of confirmation bias the poster already has.

Robbo's comment last night that Thilthorpe had been dropped for Fogarty demonstrates this at best passing interest for the crows, and he's a journalist not an ex-footy player with a golden ticket.

Blind Freddy can see the Vic media has switched off Adelaide and will remain so until Adelaide contends again.

 

[Arr0w]

This will be a reverse opinion to this thread title, but I believe you are building some really good young talent/list.

Didn't have you guys as bottom 4 this year (yes, could still happen), as there is much more upside than other sides outside the 8, where many still haven't bottomed out

Depending on the health of your list and some cheap recruiting, think you will start to rise sooner than later

Enjoy

 

[Coopers]

Have I asked you to rate my opinion? I couldn’t give a toss whether you do or not, that would mean I give 2 shits about you.

I find it amusing that you post on here with some bizarre ranking of our drafts as excellent and are using that as a basis that the rebuild is going well. What’s more amusing though is you then cling to a post where I’ve said I haven’t watched an away game in full for awhile, except for 2 weeks ago (plus I watch home games) and rush over here to post it. I must have left a mark on you, “one day I’m going to get that GK, you just wait and see”.

But if you can’t form an opinion without seeing every minuted played, perhaps you need to ask why are you such a slow learner?

I give that a solid 4/10.

 

[George Kramer]

I give that a solid 4/10.

That would be your highest rating ever

 

[Coopers]

That would be your highest rating ever

One time I got a like

 

[LeftyLuke]

This will be a reverse opinion to this thread title, but I believe you are building some really good young talent/list.

Didn't have you guys as bottom 4 this year (yes, could still happen), as there is much more upside than other sides outside the 8, where many still haven't bottomed out

Depending on the health of your list and some cheap recruiting, think you will start to rise sooner than later

Enjoy

Nah, we are ten years off having a decent team which will only occur once they move Riccuito, Ogilvie, Reid, Nicks, Kelly, Olsen out but thanks for the pump up.