Toast We have improved!!

[rp84]

In the end it came down to a 5 minute stretch of footy that we lost but matched the "Best" for the other 115 minutes. We even came out after half time and kicked the first 2 after attacking for the first 5 mins and really should have kicked more (Judd missed from directly in front that he should have kicked, Betts dropped a mark he should have gobbled and kicked another, then we get a holding the ball decision plucked from nowhere, is it any wonder Simmo abused the tool that plucked it to give away the 50m and a little later they do it again to Gibbs after he has a head high tackle applied but they dont see that) to halve their lead and if not for some poor decisions against us in our fwd 50 could have got even closer.

What that tells me is we are within 5% of the best. They had a full strength team on the park with only 1 injured player (Nathan Brown) unavailable. We had just the 1 player injured and unavailable, Kruezer (you cant count players like BowWow or Hendo or Mclean that are running around with Preston) so we have to say we were close to full strength too. Maybe there is a case to say Irish and Hoops are also injured but to be fair, we gave it all, they gave it all, both full strength and we came up 5 minutes short.

I was pretty annoyed by some umpiring decisions but the result was a fair indication of the difference between where we are and where they are. I will take that. I think we saw signs tonight of why we are now a genuine top 4 team. Signs. But as I keep saying, I will be fully convinced in 2 weeks time if we are 4/1. Then after beating sides we should be beating we can say we are where we should be. So far so good. Pretty happy with where we are so long as they bring it in the next 2 weeks and on from there and dont drop away again. Losing to the best is not a sign we are not good enough. Collingwood did not go through undefeated. But you dont see top teams lose to bottom teams often. Thats what we have to fix. So all of this agro and hatred for players that made mistakes really annoys me, these same players got us within 5 minutes of the best and but for a few poor umpiring decisions and a missed goal and dropped mark by our players we could have been right back in it and who knows what might have happened.

I just love what I am seeing from the club at the moment. In the past flags came thick and fast, one every 3 years. But seeing us build this next flag in this new socialist paradigm is quite satisfying.

This is f'ing circle jerk rubbish. We are 40 games behind them on exp and nearly 2 years on average.

In two years, we will destroy this team ( I think), but at the moment, the are a 6-10 goal better side.

We are heading in the right direction, no doubt. To think we are close to this team, is rubbish.....

 

[TNBT]

We may not be as close as some of us would like to think, rp84, but we're not as far away as you seem to think either. Yes, we played scared and made some poor decisions. Yes, the Pies out-played us. However, you take into consideration that we lost by 28 after losing by double that last year, whilst also having a handful of best 22 players out injured, not to mention that some horrendous umpires decisions virtually cost us the game in the end, and you should be able to see why the rest of us are looking at the positives to come from this game.

 

[The_Wookie]

I'd think we'd all be pretty happy with a 5 goal deficit against the pies given:

- no henderson, kreuzer or bower (and thats three important KP players there)
- an inexperienced and undersized backline, against a very strong forward line
- it was the reigning premiers at close to full strength

Have we improved? Given our performances last year resulted in two floggings, maybe.

 

[Dramoth]

This is f'ing circle jerk rubbish. We are 40 games behind them on exp and nearly 2 years on average.

In two years, we will destroy this team ( I think), but at the moment, the are a 6-10 goal better side.

We are heading in the right direction, no doubt. To think we are close to this team, is rubbish.....

they only beat us this year by 28 points... last year, it was an average if around 57 or something similar.

We are, are you say, heading in the right direction. We are a lot closer to them than you think.

 

[Abaddon]

pointless thread
the test of whether Carlton has improved will come in the next month against Essendon, Adelaide, Sydney & St Kilda. If they have improved a minimum of 3 of these next 4 games will be wins.

 

[40yearBLUE]

This is f'ing circle jerk rubbish. We are 40 games behind them on exp and nearly 2 years on average.

In two years, we will destroy this team ( I think), but at the moment, the are a 6-10 goal better side.

We are heading in the right direction, no doubt. To think we are close to this team, is rubbish.....

To think we are 6-10 goals worse when we just got beat by 4? Some of us are glass half full kind of fans, but some of us go out of our way to be glass half empties. See it any way you like mate. I am happy with where we are at. We are very very close and will finish top 4. Just finishing top 4 will get us closer to them. Get them that close in a GF and you have no idea what that pressure will do to to them. So instead of beat us by 10-15 goals in a GF as you said to another poster, which btw shows your posts to be emotional claptrap rather than considered opinions, the result might be very different. Have a feeling we might just get to find out. Enjoy your miserable season mate, the rest of us will enjoy watching us steadily improve.

 

[40yearBLUE]

pointless thread
the test of whether Carlton has improved will come in the next month against Essendon, Adelaide, Sydney & St Kilda. If they have improved a minimum of 3 of these next 4 games will be wins.

not a pointless thread, but you are bang on with the rest.

Adelaide are OK but we should knock them off at Jihad, Sydney will be tough because its at the postage stamp SCG but they dont have the list to beat us on paper so I expect us to grind out a win there, Essendon think they have the list but if Hille is out again next week I will be most disappointed if we dont beat them by at least 5 goals more like 10. So of that group, only the Saints ought to be considered able to beat us on paper. But with Hayes out, provided we dont suffer any major injuries in the next few weeks we should be able to beat them.

You are right to say this is where we will see if we have improved because if we go back over the past 2 seasons and take a look at the games we won and lost and see if the lost games were not all not only winnable that day but the losses were to teams most consider to be behind us. Put those games into the win column and see where we would have finished the last 2 seasons.

Both years would have been top 4 finishes. These are the games that decide top 4 not the heavy weight fights, we win some of those and lose some as all top 4 sides do except the very top class teams that only drop 2 games or less for the season usually against the second best side or someone else in the top 4 that caught them with injury issues or won a close one, like the Saints and Cats the past couple of years and Pies last year, but they invariably find ways to win against the sides outside the 8 or pushing into the bottom of the 8. We dont. Or at least havent.

When we do, and start finishing top 4, we will give ourselves a much better chance of finals success and from that comes the confidence in the players to take the game on. We have the ingredients all in place now, there are not too many holes in the list any more, its now just a matter of putting the final piece of the puzzle into play, intent. The rest is in the head. We will fiddle here and there, bring Kruze in and Hendo in or Bowser, or Lucas, or Ellard, or or or there are a dozen players on the fringe of the team that are capable. But until we bring the kind of intensity we had last night to every game against the lesser opponents we will not have arrived.

Next 4 weeks will see. I think we will win all 4 of them, in fact I think we will turn at half way at about 9/2 or 8/3. Very happy with the way we are travelling. Cant wait to see Kruze back in the team. This is gonna be a big season for us. I have no doubt we will finally crack a top 4 berth and win a home final. Who knows from there.

 

[The Coach]

We have improved (how can we get rid of the crazy ****s who unfortunately are free to support us )

Garlett - loved the arrogance. You could see that he believes he is as good as anyone going around

Yarran - proved he will be a star (yep, until tonight I still needed convincing )

New mindset (Garlett like ) was typified by the new attacking Jammo

We had the audacity/stupidity/injuries to play one KF (I cannot ever see Hammer being even as useful as their Brown) and one KD short (sacrificed Watson for experience? In the end they were capitalizing on this by deliberately lobbing the ball up) and this against a full strength in form premier and we still pretty much held our own (with only one forward on top)

Not improved - Juddy kicking for goal. He needs to see a Psych - definitely a mental problem there

I would not be surprised if there was a reason other than good opposition for Murph's falling away after Q time because his first Q was SOGOOD. Mind you he (and Juddy) only double figure contested possessions and he topped our clearances and pressure acts

 

[Azul]

Not improved - Juddy kicking for goal. He needs to see a Psych - definitely a mental problem there

I dunno, his kicking actually has improved this year. I think he's getting an extra 5-10m in distance and has cut down the clangers that balloon or spray.

Accuracy obviously still a problem.

 

[AndyWalkersGirl]

We have improved I think, it'd be a major concern if we hadn't. Ed Curnow is just impressing each week so far, fast becoming a favourite. Courageous, strong, gutsy, lays tackles that stick, throws the ball out, runs all night, leads by example.

Everyone talks about midfield depth, but we still don't have it that much I would have thought. Look at Gibbs' role last night - he was defensive and no one was there it stand up in his attacking role. Can't wait for the day where Ratten starts playing Gibbs and letting the other team worry about him, instead of using him to hold down players... let him be the one held down. We don't really have the depth to do that yet clearly...

I think this year will be a better one for us, knowing that Kruezer, Bower and Hendo are going to come back into the side will make us much better than we were last night. Jamo and Bower down back will settle us. Hendo will at least hold marks and kick goals up compared to Hampson's past three weeks. For how long do we perservere with him?

Those M.I.A players from last night, Waite, Betts, Murphy to an extent, Walker - they're our 'leaders' in terms of experience yet they go AWOL Too often. Not good enough, as soon as they get a kick up the bottom, we'll be better.

 

[Lukesta63]

What a pointless thread. It is round 3. It is very early to jump to such nonsensical conclusions at this stage.

You don't know how St Kilda, Freo and the Bulldogs are going to fare against Collingwood.

And also, how can you say we have improved if we were to miss the finals, or lose in the first week of the finals again...

I agree mate!!

Let's get excited that we lost to the Filth!!!!!!
I dont care what the margin was ,we still lost.A FF and a bit more experience in defense and maybe we would've wiped the smirk of their toothless faces!!

And f#ck me if they dont carry on like they're the only team to win a flag!!

My hatred of this virus is at an all time high,I'm old school people ,I dont have to admire the filth ,no matter how many flags they win.

Remember Hitler had agreat army as well!!!

 

[Korn]

I don't think we have improved at all. We are playing better than the performance we had in the 2nd half of the season. But no way we have improved. We played our best football last year against St Kilda and Geelong. How we played last night is no where near the intensity and speed we were capable of when we beat those 2 teams.

And don't say it's because Kruezer, Henderson and Bower are missing. I am referring to individual performance. A lot of players have either gone backwards or have peaked and will not show anymore improvment. I don't think Gibbs and Murphy have improved, they are still good, but they played the same way as they have been playing for the last 2 years.

 

[blues4flag]

I don't think we have improved at all. We are playing better than the performance we had in the 2nd half of the season. But no way we have improved. We played our best football last year against St Kilda and Geelong. How we played last night is no where near the intensity and speed we were capable of when we beat those 2 teams.

And don't say it's because Kruezer, Henderson and Bower are missing. I am referring to individual performance. A lot of players have either gone backwards or have peaked and will not show anymore improvment. I don't think Gibbs and Murphy have improved, they are still good, but they played the same way as they have been playing for the last 2 years.

Both Gibbs and Murph (in particular) were far better in 09 than they were last year.

If Murph recaptures his 09 form he'll be AA this season.

 

[Silvagnis]

I don't think we have improved at all. We are playing better than the performance we had in the 2nd half of the season. But no way we have improved. We played our best football last year against St Kilda and Geelong. How we played last night is no where near the intensity and speed we were capable of when we beat those 2 teams.

And don't say it's because Kruezer, Henderson and Bower are missing. I am referring to individual performance. A lot of players have either gone backwards or have peaked and will not show anymore improvment. I don't think Gibbs and Murphy have improved, they are still good, but they played the same way as they have been playing for the last 2 years.

So we should just send Yarran, Gibbs, Warnock, Henderson, Watson, Lucas, Garlett and Robinson off to GWS for what we can get?

Too much negativity in your post.

We didn't spread as well as we did in the wins against the Cats and Saints, but our midfield and forward half pressure was better than last year.

Our backline hasn't been settled for a long time.

 

[blue gunslinger]

Both Gibbs and Murph (in particular) were far better in 09 than they were last year.

If Murph recaptures his 09 form he'll be AA this season.

murph had chronic OP and should never had played a game
source-poo physio

 

[AndyWalkersGirl]

on the radio today for the Suns match, they were talking about Carlton with serious concerns or question marks about Gibbs.

They were basically saying that he doesn't seem to push himself like the great players of Collingwood and other teams do, he doesn't exaust himself on theground, he just does what he has to do and coasts along . he doesn't seem to run off the ground absolutely stuffed, and something about how he only runs around the centre square and doesn't seem to push hard at either end unless he thinks he can get a possession out of it.

They said he has a touch of the Mark Waughs, and asked how many Mark Waughs led Aus to a final win. All of the commentators seemed to just say what a few of us on here have been thinking, that Bryce Gibbs needs to learn to push himself harder and stand up and be a leader.

 

[chaser1]

I agree entirely about Gibbs, he seems to Coast for a player of his ability. Next 4 weeks will tell if we have improved or not. 3 out four as a minimum.

 

[Sin City]

Blues bridging gap to the top

Carlton coach Brett Ratten later lamented ''softer goals'' kicked by the opposition, but said his side worked ''extremely hard'' to stay in the contest after half-time.

''We had a few opportunities to really bridge the margin … we probably just fell away in the last five or six minutes of the third,'' Ratten said.

''At times we lacked a little bit of composure, but other times we really rolled our sleeves up and fought the fight.

''We didn't get as much free ball as they did, they had a bit more spread and a little bit more freedom in their disposal - especially through the middle of the ground when they got that quick rebound from marks in our forward 50.''

Collingwood's 14-point lead six minutes into the third term was out to 27 at three-quarter-time when Blair kicked his fifth goal. After the break, Chris Dawes slotted his second major to stretch the margin.

''At the end of the day you reflect and think, 'Did we earn respect?','' Ratten said. ''I don't think we lost respect, but I don't know how much we earned.

''We made inroads in our approach to the game, but at the end of the day it's a 28-point loss to a very good opposition [and] there were things to like and things not to like as well.''

Blues bridging gap to the top

I'm glad they're looking at areas for improvement straight away.

Still Kreuzer, Bower, Henderson, McLean, Lucas, Houlihan to come in and strengthen the team up.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Blues bridging gap to the top



Blues bridging gap to the top

I'm glad they're looking at areas for improvement straight away.

Still Kreuzer, Bower, Henderson, McLean, Lucas, Houlihan to come in and strengthen the team up.

The key and decisive Ratts quote was:


''We didn't get as much free ball as they did, they had a bit more spread and a little bit more freedom in their disposal - especially through the middle of the ground when they got that quick rebound from marks in our forward 50.''

We need Hendo as a marking target in or around 50m OR, send Bower to replace Watson in our back half and have Watson as our CHF. The kid can take a mark and we all see that he can kick. The only issue is does he have the motor. Even if he does not have enough tank to go the entire game, it could work for a half. Hammer isnt dangerous if he isnt marking AND converting. He aint doin either at the moment but is needed as a back up ruck. Maybe having him as the sub is the go with Hendo, Waite, Watson as marking forwards (with Hendo taking ruck work in the forward half and for a few minutes to spell Knockers), Eddie, Garlett the crumbers and Walker the floater. And maybe give Eddie a run on the ball from time to time and have one of the mids resting forward (Jeff already seems to have license to run as far as the back flanks and is playing that role perfectly, especially when he takes off on a run, and we also have Yarran playing that way but starting from HB, no need to mess with that, its working well).

 

[rp84]

To think we are 6-10 goals worse when we just got beat by 4? Some of us are glass half full kind of fans, but some of us go out of our way to be glass half empties. See it any way you like mate. I am happy with where we are at. We are very very close and will finish top 4. Just finishing top 4 will get us closer to them. Get them that close in a GF and you have no idea what that pressure will do to to them. So instead of beat us by 10-15 goals in a GF as you said to another poster, which btw shows your posts to be emotional claptrap rather than considered opinions, the result might be very different. Have a feeling we might just get to find out. Enjoy your miserable season mate, the rest of us will enjoy watching us steadily improve.

Mate, I am a fairly positive supporter of everyone that pulls on our jersey. I was emotional after the loss, but I think the opinion stands. If you read the next post, I agreed we are heading in the right direction. We are doing a lot of good things, working out structure and seeing huge upside in our kids.

I think you would have to be deluded to think we are close to their team though.

Being a 'glass half full' supporter is different from bordering on the ridiculous. To think the pressure in a GF would get to a team that played in two of them last year, and not get to us, is fairly unrealistic. Our MAJOR concern is the inability to win big games. We beat the cats and the saints last year, but neither were in front of 80k people.

I still don't think we are a lock for top 4 yet either. We will know in a month. Considering the form of geelong, coll, then there seem to be about 4 or 5 teams that are quite close (WB, Freo, St kilda, essendon and sydney), we will have to play out of our skin to finish in the top 4. Not saying it is impossible. It is just far less likely than a few people are alluding to on here.

That said, would love us to win the next 4 and set it up. Big inclusions in the next few weeks too. Getting the bombers while they are flying will be a massive test on the big stage.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Mate, I am a fairly positive supporter of everyone that pulls on our jersey. I was emotional after the loss, but I think the opinion stands. If you read the next post, I agreed we are heading in the right direction. We are doing a lot of good things, working out structure and seeing huge upside in our kids.

I think you would have to be deluded to think we are close to their team though.

Being a 'glass half full' supporter is different from bordering on the ridiculous. To think the pressure in a GF would get to a team that played in two of them last year, and not get to us, is fairly unrealistic. Our MAJOR concern is the inability to win big games. We beat the cats and the saints last year, but neither were in front of 80k people.

I still don't think we are a lock for top 4 yet either. We will know in a month. Considering the form of geelong, coll, then there seem to be about 4 or 5 teams that are quite close (WB, Freo, St kilda, essendon and sydney), we will have to play out of our skin to finish in the top 4. Not saying it is impossible. It is just far less likely than a few people are alluding to on here.

That said, would love us to win the next 4 and set it up. Big inclusions in the next few weeks too. Getting the bombers while they are flying will be a massive test on the big stage.

You're kidding arent you? If we made it to a GF just getting there from nowhere is a major win so we go out there with much less pressure on much less expectation on us and once the scores are close who knows what would happen. We kick ahead at quarter time and all of a sudden they are thinking what if they get on top again, what if what if what if.....who knows what could happen.

And yes, from that showing we are only 5 minutes more concentration from 120 minutes of game time off them. Thats it. For the other 115 minutes we matched them step for step. So yes I think we are very very close to them. And I think top 4 is a lock this year. Now that the Saints seem to have fallen away.

 

[rp84]

You're kidding arent you? If we made it to a GF just getting there from nowhere is a major win so we go out there with much less pressure on much less expectation on us and once the scores are close who knows what would happen. We kick ahead at quarter time and all of a sudden they are thinking what if they get on top again, what if what if what if.....who knows what could happen.

And yes, from that showing we are only 5 minutes more concentration from 120 minutes of game time off them. Thats it. For the other 115 minutes we matched them step for step. So yes I think we are very very close to them. And I think top 4 is a lock this year. Now that the Saints seem to have fallen away.

I sincerely appreciate your optimism. However, I think 99% of the people that watch football would call this very premature, based on no real logic.

The saints will still be a top 6 team.

I do pray you are correct though.

 

[rp84]

I think he'll be pretty close.

Saints have fallen behind through natural causes and having had the off-season go the way it did hasn't helped, and then to further lose Lenny, you could understand some feeling that this may just not be their year.

Where we may hit a road block would be through injuries as for any other team but it just feels we get them to our "irreplacables"
If and when Kreuzer, Henderson and Bower get back onto the park and stay there we're as good a go for the top four as anyone.
Given half a good run, I'll back 40YB on his call.

By that, do you mean a run of beating a couple respectable teams? Once that happens, and we show CONSISTENCY, I will start to think we a chance.

To call it a lock, is just ridiculously premature.

 

[rp84]

A good run with injuries is what I meant.

We weren't really going to go too deep through the finals last year irrespective of all that, but we can't discount injuries to key personnel at just the wrong time.

Kreuzer: No need for qualification
Bower: In and out like a yo-yo and was never right all year.
Lucas: Just as he had hit his straps we lost him.
Waite and Murphy: Both suffered through early injuries.

We could not settle on our ruck division all year either with constant meddling between Hampson, Jacobs and Warnock.
Since last year, we have bolstered our stocks with the likes of Curnow, Duigan and Laidler already outperforming others who had been there previously.
We virtually started this year without Bower, Kreuzer, Henderson, Houlihan, Jamison and McLean. That's a lot of quality to just discount altogether.

Look at the Premiership side just to see how many they had out all year.
Yes, it may not be cool to blame injuries for form, but given three or four to key players it is just not as easy for the group to adjust to set plays, game plans etc.

Given a better run with injuries, I'd back we'll do a hell of a lot better than last year.

Agree with most of that. We will do a lot better. A jump to 5th or 6th and a win or two in finals is a big improvement. If we made the top 4, it'd be an amazing achievement.

A big part will be how MK goes in his return. This was the year I was hoping for him to dominate. Sadly, it will be a lot more difficult now. Bower and Hendo back, and playing consistent footy make us a hugely improved side.

Lucas, I feel, is the x factor. If he can get a run in our midfield, and play on a flank the rest of the game, he could be a huge difference. Like him rotating though the midfield, while playing half forward while resting. So much time and poise. If he has a breakout year, definitely gives us the depth in the midfield with the addition of Curnow tractors, to be a very competitive team.

 

[40yearBLUE]

By that, do you mean a run of beating a couple respectable teams? Once that happens, and we show CONSISTENCY, I will start to think we a chance.

To call it a lock, is just ridiculously premature.

We have consistently beaten respectable teams already. Do I really need to remind you that last year we beat both the Saints and the Cats, the year before we beat the Cats, Pies and Dogs and pushed the saints to a kick after giving them a 5 goal headstart and just ran out of time to overhaul them. No we already do this on a regular basis.

The thing over the past 2 seasons that has kept us out of the top 4 has not been our ability to match it with the other top 4 teams, it has been our inability to always beat bottom 8 teams. This is what we have to fix. Once we consistently win the games we ought to, we will, as we would have in both of the previous 2 seasons, win enough games to guarantee a top 4 finish.

And of course once we do actually finish top 4 we are as worthy a shot at finals success as any other top 4 team. And just as likely to beat any of the other top 4 teams on our day.

That is why I am so confident we are so close. We have already proved our best is good enough to match it with the other contenders, we just have to improve our ability to bring our best to the rest to finish the job. Its not a stretch at all if you go study the actual results of the past 2 years and not rely on emotion and fear to cloud your vision.

Do you think the MC sit around wondering if we are good enough? And then fretting that we lost a game to Collingwood so clearly we are not? Please. How bout you jump on. Start by going over the losses we had over the past 2 years and see if you dont agree that we should have won most of them. If you come to the same conclusion that I do, that is, that most of those losses were winnable if we had played to form, you might start to be an optimist too.

Very very close now. So close I can smell what we are cooking.