The "We must get Tom Lynch at all costs...or maybe not" Thread

[TheWoodsOf72]

The Judd trade netted WC Kennedy, Masten and Notte. That's hardly mortgaging the farm, with Kennedy being the only one who hurts (see Fev discussion). Carlton were and have been rubbish for the past 20 years, bar a couple of Judd years. Even if they didn't do the deal, history shows that they would have cocked up their rebuild as they always do.

We aren't anywhere near the diabolical situation Carlton were in at the time. It's all opinion but I think we are closer to Geelong the year before they got Dangerfield.

Your right in comparing ourselves to Geelong and not the scum. Their club seems to be doing the right thing most of the time. No more key recruits until we have a key game plan and defense.

 

[Football God]

Get Ben brown next year

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Yep, a key forward and a key back of the future.

But neither have shown the goods as it were, that's still to play out.

Treloar we are talking about, he's a bone fide elite player.
He's worth everything we paid and some.

(Ofcourse had we kept the picks, we don't know really know who we would have picked at the time anyway, eg last year maybe McLarty was on the radar anyway. We just don't know, mere conjecture)

 

[MISFITS]

The Judd trade netted WC Kennedy, Masten and Notte. That's hardly mortgaging the farm, with Kennedy being the only one who hurts (see Fev discussion). Carlton were and have been rubbish for the past 20 years, bar a couple of Judd years. Even if they didn't do the deal, history shows that they would have cocked up their rebuild as they always do.

We aren't anywhere near the diabolical situation Carlton were in at the time. It's all opinion but I think we are closer to Geelong the year before they got Dangerfield.

Do you want to know something Jasper?

For once I am jealous of Carlton.

They identified cultural problems on the list.
Shipped Out deadwood.
Went to the draft with a plan.
(How Many rising stars did they have this year?6)

Above all else they cleaned up the boys club management.
The matesclub(are you listening Eddy?)
Brown, Kernahan. Ratten.
And the worst most inbreed recruiting department.
SOS is doing great.

They have a plan for the future and
Are Not trying to do Judd like quick fix deals.

 

[Vicky Park]

Yeah, that's not actually what happened. The years before Judd came to Carlton they finished last, last and second last. The year Judd arrived, they finished 11th then played finals for the next 3 years.

"But they gave up Kennedy!" you say. At the time, they had a dominant Fev in his mid 20's who won a couple of Colemans and came runner up on 99 goals. They would have expected him to be their KPF for a lot longer than he was and at the time Kennedy was surplus.

Apart from Judd and Fev, the Carlton list was horrendous and you could argue that if anything, Judd got a team into consecutive finals when it had no purpose being there.

I now need to take a bath and throw up in my mouth a little.

You just spent way too much time in 'Carlton'.

 

[GoalSneak07]

Do you want to know something Jasper?

For once I am man jealous of Carlton.

They identified cultural problems in the list.
Shipped Out deadwood.
Went to the draft with a plan.
(How Many rising stars did they have this year?6)

Above all else they cleaned up the boys club management.
The matesclub(are you listening Eddy?)
Brown, Kernahan. Ratten.
And the worst most inveeed recruiting department.

They have a plan for the future and
Are Not tying to do Judd like quick fix deals.

I think we're going to see more and more of these deals in the future though. Think about it, the competition is that even, clubs are gonna "think they're in a premiership window quicker than in the past. Development of your own players now becomes a real threat with the amount of coin being thrown around these days. If you have top end talent be prepared to lose it more so than ever. It sucks but that's where we're at with AFL football at the moment. Look at Lever, McGovern, Schache, Hopper.. the list goes on. Clubs 8 or 9 years ago very rarely went after guys in their first or second seasons.

Carlton had every right to go after Judd as he was a star, even though their list was horrible bringing in a player of his calibur no doubt helped the Gibbs, Murphys etc. Have a look at the Tigers this season, this time last season they were a rabble but they traded in Prestia, lets Lids go and grabbed Caddy and now they have a double chance in this years finals series.

I look at us "potentially" being in the same boat next season with a couple of "quick fix deals".

 

[Unknown Identity]

Given Gil's comments on the couch urging him to remain at the Suns, he must have got wind of Lynch potentially entertaining offers.

Then there was Jay Clark's article about us having a crack at him before free agency.

Where there's smoke there's fire.

Would be the biggest recruit for us since Buckley crossing from the Bears.

 

[Dynamics]

Given Gil's comments on the couch urging him to remain at the Suns, he must have got wind of Lynch potentially entertaining offers.

Then there was Jay Clark's article about us having a crack at him before free agency.

Where there's smoke there's fire.

Would be the biggest recruit for us since Buckley crossing from the Bears.

I would say there's a fair chance meetings have taken place. As you say, Gil wouldn't be so public about it unless he had good reason.

 

[Apples]

This is a misnomer. How many players has it landed us in the past? At a stretch maybe a 20 year old Buckley in the early/mid 90s. Treloar perhaps but whether he came because of Buckley, the perceived list quality (at least that was his stated reason), the salary offer or the profile of Collingwood is debatable Have North landed any les big names than Collingwood?

Father/sons aside, players do not come to Collingwood because we are Collingwood.

Treloar came to Collingwood for a number of reasons and playing under Buckley was the most publicised of them. He chose Collingwood over Richmond for the 'stated' reason that he thought our list was superior.
I don't think that was the real reason he chose us though; it was probably a combination of playing under Bucks, playing for the biggest club in town and playing in front of large crowds in marquee games.

I'm not really sure about his footy judgement if he thought our list was superior to Richmond's; our list is ordinary, but with an outstanding development team we can begin to turn that around from now. That's where we should be throwing the money.

 

[MISFITS]

I think we're going to see more and more of these deals in the future though. Think about it, the competition is that even, clubs are gonna "think they're in a premiership window quicker than in the past. Development of your own players now becomes a real threat with the amount of coin being thrown around these days. If you have top end talent be prepared to lose it more so than ever. It sucks but that's where we're at with AFL football at the moment. Look at Lever, McGovern, Schache, Hopper.. the list goes on. Clubs 8 or 9 years ago very rarely went after guys in their first or second seasons.

Carlton had every right to go after Judd as he was a star, even though their list was horrible bringing in a player of his calibur no doubt helped the Gibbs, Murphys etc. Have a look at the Tigers this season, this time last season they were a rabble but they traded in Prestia, lets Lids go and grabbed Caddy and now they have a double chance in this years finals series.

I look at us "potentially" being in the same boat next season with a couple of "quick fix deals".

Why are we so bad at it.
Trading pics and sallery cap space for established stars can be diamonds or rocks.
There is players of rare quality who bring leadership and lead by example.
There is a backlash when there is an unevenness of payment on the list.
Mercenaries are rewarded.
Loyalty players less so.

So in my view, if I can borrrow a quote from dean Laidley.
There is no point going forward unless you get the culture right.

Treloar came to Collingwood for a number of reasons and playing under Buckley was the most publicised of them. He chose Collingwood over Richmond for the 'stated' reason that he thought our list was superior.
I don't think that was the real reason he chose us though; it was probably a combination of playing under Bucks, playing for the biggest club in town and playing in front of large crowds in marquee games.

I'm not really sure about his footy judgement if he thought our list was superior to Richmond's; our list is ordinary, but with an outstanding development team we can begin to turn that around from now. That's where we should be throwing the money.

i wish that I shared your view.
I feel that we are plugging holes in the hull of a ship with our fingers but we simply don't have enough fingers.

We dismantled a young premiership team and we never really redeveloped our list.
Our drafts were either expansion club comprised or spudded up.
Hence the wasted top 10 picks on Scharonberg. Freeman.
(DeGoey is winning me over)

What we need is a plan.
Hit the draft for a couple of years.
Recruit a core group of the same age demographic.
A bunch of talented kids who come through the system together.
Forget the culture club B/S.
Start a new Ratpack.
Use the confidence of youth, show some loyalty rather than continually chopping our list.
watch a young list fight for each other.
Trading is expensive.
We waste top end picks which stymie our future growth .
What does one player get us?
How many spots will Lynch make us rise.
1 or 2??
Not a premiership.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

Dolphines?
Ah...you spent to much time over there.

I believe they are the female of the species.

 

[ThexderX]

OP = AFL won't let it happen.

The AFL can manipulate whatever outcome they want and he will not leave the Suns....unless he goes to Sydney or GWS, that can be arranged.

 

[peter moore]

Why are we so bad at it.
Trading pics and sallery cap space for established stars can be diamonds or rocks.
There is players of rare quality who bring leadership and lead by example.
There is a backlash when there is an unevenness of payment on the list.
Mercenaries are rewarded.
Loyalty players less so.

So in my view, if I can borrrow a quote from dean Laidley.
There is no point going forward unless you get the culture right.

i wish that I shared your view.
I feel that we are plugging holes in the hull of a ship with our fingers but we simply don't have enough fingers.

We dismantled a young premiership team and we never really redeveloped our list.
Our drafts were either expansion club comprised or spudded up.
Hence the wasted top 10 picks on Scharonberg. Freeman.
(DeGoey is winning me over)

What we need is a plan.
Hit the draft for a couple of years.
Recruit a core group of the same age demographic.
A bunch of talented kids who come through the system together.
Forget the culture club B/S.
Start a new Ratpack.
Use the confidence of youth, show some loyalty rather than continually chopping our list.
watch a young list fight for each other.
Trading is expensive.
We waste top end picks which stymie our future growth .
What does one player get us?
How many spots will Lynch make us rise.
1 or 2??
Not a premiership.

I agree with you and your comments above about recruiting for the future and build a list adding to Moore, DeGoey, Grundy, Maynard, Scharenburg, Elliott, Adams, etc
My worry is with Buckleys reappointment and no changes to assistant coaches or recruiting staff that they will go after short term success to save their backsides.

 

[Carringbush2010]

We have a dozen or more players that other clubs would not want. How is that great?

IMO opinion there's probably less than half a dozen in our best 22 that don't have potential, even then there's possibility for improvement. Sure you could argue no one wants them but that's speculation but allow me to back speculate - every team apart from GWS has players that no one wants

 

[Carringbush2010]

Treloar costs us:
Pick 9 in 2015 was Sam Weiderman (GWS gave that to Melbourne as part of a separate trade)
Pick 8 in 2016 was Griffin Logue (GWS gave that to Fremantle as part of a separate trade)

2 years later it's an interesting debate...

IMO think we played our cards right with Treloar looking back

 

[unplugged]

Just give up two first rounders and be done with it. If we have to.

 

[Carringbush2010]

With all due respect, players such as Moore, McLarty, McCarthy, Lynch (Coll), Tomlinson or even U18 kids such as Balta or Brander are not in Tom Lynch's league.

Disagree, IMO Lynch has been better developed where as Moore has been hampered as a result of shitty service from upfield and probably poorly developed in a coaching sense which goes for our whole list really - in short he has not been able to "flourish" just like the team in a sense. IF we clean up our development we'll be a lot better. Would also add their team seems more "balanced" and that would no doubt help Lynch

 

[Carringbush2010]

They have a plan for the future and
Are Not trying to do Judd like quick fix deals.

Agreed, and what a we doing? We've just had a massive review and only 1 assistant so far has gone, Pert and Davoren - hardly a "blueprint" for the future and kept the head coach which I'm tipping was against solid advice. I think it's come down to hoping in utter desperation that by some miracle it's all gonna turn around from Ed & Nathan. I am very very confident that Walshy advised that Nathan should step aside and Ed wasn't gonna have that.

It's so frustrating watching us basket case a list with so much potential

 

[partypie]

Question should be;
Who is better at attracting quality players.
And I give you .....Mayne.

Mark my words - Mayne will come out and kick 40-50 goals next year.
Might very well be in the VFL seconds (if they still exist?) but it's how many you kick, not where you kick them that counts isn't it?!?!?

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Agreed, and what a we doing? We've just had a massive review and only 1 assistant so far has gone, Pert and Davoren - hardly a "blueprint" for the future and kept the head coach which I'm tipping was against solid advice. I think it's come down to hoping in utter desperation that by some miracle it's all gonna turn around from Ed & Nathan. I am very very confident that Walshy advised that Nathan should step aside and Ed wasn't gonna have that.

It's so frustrating watching us basket case a list with so much potential

Do you think that Earthquake in Mexico today was Ed's fault too?

 

[Carringbush2010]

Do you think that Earthquake in Mexico today was Ed's fault too?

Earthquake? Think you're on the wrong forum friend.

Seriously though I didn't say this was Ed's "fault" what I did say that it looks to me that Ed is hoping like hell bent that the succession plan just all of a sudden turns around to be fruitful and am speculating that the Club received advice and Ed went a against it. Whether or not that's how it went down we may never know but to me from an external view point it looks that way

To suggest I'm blaming Eddie sounds a little reactionary and defensive, to me he's like the kid who wants the orange icy pole and only the range one but won't accept the lemonade one even though it may be better

 

[magpie_marty]

Disagree, IMO Lynch has been better developed where as Moore has been hampered as a result of shitty service from upfield and probably poorly developed in a coaching sense which goes for our whole list really - in short he has not been able to "flourish" just like the team in a sense. IF we clean up our development we'll be a lot better. Would also add their team seems more "balanced" and that would no doubt help Lynch

I agree the service into the forward line was poor all year as per previous years,I just wonder if Moore is a better CHB than CHF.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Just a side note - the dogs are looking for a small forward and we're looking for a KPF. Jake Stringer...................

Probably more gettable than Lynch

 

[jmac70]

IMO opinion there's probably less than half a dozen in our best 22 that don't have potential, even then there's possibility for improvement. Sure you could argue no one wants them but that's speculation but allow me to back speculate - every team apart from GWS has players that no one wants

The following players are not up to the standard required:
Blair
Dunn
Mayne
Greenwood
Phillips
Keeffe
Thomas
Kirby
Sinclair
Ramsay
Wills
Sier
Crocker
Smith
Schade
Mackie

That's 16 players I am confident no other AFL club would have any interest in.

 

[legendstatus]

We need Lynch & Alir Alir, Pies if you are fair dinkum you'd get this done !


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