We need our reputation back Mr Fagan

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We had a reputation as a strong professional club , but due to Mr Trigg etc actions that ended up badly hurting and tarnishing our name . But with everything the club did on and off the field last year with our unified handling of the loss of Phil and playing again in finals we starting getting back on track .
But we still need some positives about direction of club and some strong decisions coming from club.
A review of some of our coaching staff and football management side need to be reviewed as too many been there too long with no great results to show for and sometimes to keep moving forward friendships have to be bypassed.
Our ruck coach and mid field coach are two that I see need to be looked at.
But without doubt where we must restore our reputation as a club is the almost drastic need to stop this flow of key players from our club .
The signing of Josh Jenkins quickly and professionally is not only most required for our clubs reputation but give faith to supporters that our club is strong and supportive , but even as important to any future recruits etc that we are a strong unified club .
Also this would shut Mr Rucci up and have nothing to write about .
The longer he is not signed then the vulture clubs will circle as tall scoring forwards do not grow on trees .
NOTE
To Josh as I don't know you I would like to remind you of the club that gave you a opportunity and nurtured you over the last few years to finally getting reward for their support.
 

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StonesThrow

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#3
Why the midfield coach? Because we were beaten on the weekend? What about when they looked a million bucks most other weeks.

Campo also did well last year under the most difficult circumstances. I don't know why everyone has gone off him all of a sudden.

As to the Jenkins 'note', he can go wherever he likes. The club can axe him whenever they like. They don't owe each other anything.
 
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While I agree with parts of this post, not sure we need a coaching review at this point in time. At the end of the season, sure...
Yes Hellboy sorry I obviously meant end of season for coaches review and replacing even if have contracts as there are others like Harper etc as well that need to get some fresh ideas in . Think the work and expertise of Walsh and current coach covers lack of ability of current mid and ruck coach which gets caught out like Sat. Getting Lade out of richmond on surface looks good idea to replace Clark .
But the are minor to keeping key players after $ippett and Sookunston and Homingerfield leaving.
 

Crowked

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#5
I think the club is on the right track. We have professional, intelligent and influential people in the right places off field, and the football department has us going pretty well on field considering we basically have the toughest draw of any club this season. We need to be patient. We are only 7 games in to another new coaches era. We've been more than competitive, we could have won all of them. I believe.

We have a very good list that is young and developing. No doubt we have areas to improve, but our list management people can cover off these areas in the next draft and trade week. Every list/team has some faults anyway, even Hawthorn, Sydney and WCE.

2 years ago, I thought we were miles off. Now I think the window is wide open. IMO we are as likely as anyone to win premierships in any of the next 5 years.
 
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Hey Crowked good post as your points correct with the only point like to highlight is we are already down a 2 nd round draft pick for next year, but guess where I am coming from is first of all sort out the Jenkins contract ASAP as if lose him not only puts us backwards playing wise again but will damage us long term due to a seemingly regular exodus .
The club has made some top decisions like the appointment of our last 2 senior coaches that have reinvigorated our club as you pointed out , but believe that on and off the field we are not quite there and taking the club out of comfort zone by shaking the coaching tree season end think important to keep moving forward.
And like many others think that both mid and ruck coaches are not strengths of our team and covered up by the strengths of last 2 senior coaches but caught out under pressure .

We can only be proud of what achieved this season so far , but now up against it a bit to make top 4 and 2017 looking like more our premiership window but Pyke might still do a Blighty .
Lets face it we don't want to do a Power failure like those down the road winning premierships in the off season.
 

mattymac

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#9
For all the song and dance we're still a side that can't win big games in Melbourne and are sitting dead level with the power who have been roundly proclaimed as shit. Tough draw, sure, but we need to move beyond excuses as a club.

Results are the only thing that matter a toss at the end of the day. Closing out games and pocketing the 4 points. Made me ill to see the "Brave crows lose again bla bla" headline in the paper on Sunday. Sick of being brave. That's code for being talented enough to win but mentally weak, choking, not as committed to the contest as your opponent etc.

Agree strongly our midfield needs looking at. Its very much a one trick pony. Generally wins clearances well but has been a lazy defensive outfit for as long as I care to remember now. The storm of I50s we make our back six face is frightening. New kids coming through like Mrouch and Lyons have already learned bad habits defensively.

Tex also needs to be a leader like he was last year or is he struggling with the pressure of captaincy? These questions need to be asked. I don't buy the "he's just getting back into it after a sore foot" stuff for a second. All those tentative dropped marks just pawing indecisively at the ball and doubting himself are very uncharacteristic. Even started to see some throwing back of the head and other silly nonsense trying to get soft frees creeping into his game. What gives?

Our other leaders need to stand up too. Too often its just one of them standing up. Thommo one week, Sloane the next. They need to stand up as a unit and lift up the young side around them in those clutch moments. The good successful sides do this. Not be content to sit back and let someone else do the heavy lifting. We are a good side but not successful.

Generally we're doing ok. About as ok as a 6-8 side. But our midfield needs to learn about defense and we need leadership in the big moments. Now is the time to sort this out if we're serious about next year otherwise 2017 will turn into 2018, 2019...then 2025...
 

Iron

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#10
For all the song and dance we're still a side that can't win big games in Melbourne and are sitting dead level with the power who have been roundly proclaimed as shit. Tough draw, sure, but we need to move beyond excuses as a club.

Results are the only thing that matter a toss at the end of the day. Closing out games and pocketing the 4 points. Made me ill to see the "Brave crows lose again bla bla" headline in the paper on Sunday. Sick of being brave. That's code for being talented enough to win but mentally weak, choking, not as committed to the contest as your opponent etc.

Agree strongly our midfield needs looking at. Its very much a one trick pony. Generally wins clearances well but has been a lazy defensive outfit for as long as I care to remember now. The storm of I50s we make our back six face is frightening. New kids coming through like Mrouch and Lyons have already learned bad habits defensively.

Tex also needs to be a leader like he was last year or is he struggling with the pressure of captaincy? These questions need to be asked. I don't buy the "he's just getting back into it after a sore foot" stuff for a second. All those tentative dropped marks just pawing indecisively at the ball and doubting himself are very uncharacteristic. Even started to see some throwing back of the head and other silly nonsense trying to get soft frees creeping into his game. What gives?

Our other leaders need to stand up too. Too often its just one of them standing up. Thommo one week, Sloane the next. They need to stand up as a unit and lift up the young side around them in those clutch moments. The good successful sides do this. Not be content to sit back and let someone else do the heavy lifting. We are a good side but not successful.

Generally we're doing ok. About as ok as a 6-8 side. But our midfield needs to learn about defense and we need leadership in the big moments. Now is the time to sort this out if we're serious about next year otherwise 2017 will turn into 2018, 2019...then 2025...
Yes. Or alternatively we have been beaten by sides that are better than or equal to us who have the advantage of playing on their home ground.

If we had lost to the bulldogs last year on the MCG in an elimination final, I'd agree. Don't try to say that wasn't big enough either... But signs are better than they have been in years.

You have to be good enough to win big games. It's possible that we just haven't been. Likely, in fact. Why does it have to be a trend that undermines the clubs culture and direction?
 

mattymac

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#11
Yes. Or alternatively we have been beaten by sides that are better than or equal to us who have the advantage of playing on their home ground.

If we had lost to the bulldogs last year on the MCG in an elimination final, I'd agree. Don't try to say that wasn't big enough either... But signs are better than they have been in years.

You have to be good enough to win big games. It's possible that we just haven't been. Likely, in fact. Why does it have to be a trend that undermines the clubs culture and direction?
Closing out close games is mental.

If you're within a kick or two at the death you are good enough. At that point it is about who can hold their nerve and execute under pressure. Who will stand up and lead in the clutch moment.

You bring up the prelim win. That is exactly what I alluded to when I said Tex is struggling to lead this year. In the prelim he stood up and led in the clutch moment and we won. This year he hasn't and we've lost three close ones interstate.

If you sit back and say "yeah we were 3 goals up with 5 minutes to go and lost by 3 points... but its ok they were just a better side... and to say otherwise is to undermine the club's culture" is defeatist loser talk.

Our previous slow starts were mental. These things can be turned around but you have to address them not bury your head in the sand.

Saying we need to improve in certain areas has nothing to do with undermining the club's culture and its frankly weird that you make that connection.
 

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Iron

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#13
Closing out close games is mental.

If you're within a kick or two at the death you are good enough. At that point it is about who can hold their nerve and execute under pressure. Who will stand up and lead in the clutch moment.

You bring up the prelim win. That is exactly what I alluded to when I said Tex is struggling to lead this year. In the prelim he stood up and led in the clutch moment and we won. This year he hasn't and we've lost three close ones interstate.

If you sit back and say "yeah we were 3 goals up with 5 minutes to go and lost by 3 points... but its ok they were just a better side... and to say otherwise is to undermine the club's culture" is defeatist loser talk.

Our previous slow starts were mental. These things can be turned around but you have to address them not bury your head in the sand.

Saying we need to improve in certain areas has nothing to do with undermining the club's culture and its frankly weird that you make that connection.
It's weird you would mention being three goals up when we weren't all night. Unless you're still talking about the Hawthorn game? Was last night's game a choke too? Even though we were poor nearly all night (ie not good enough), and almost stole it?
 

mattymac

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It's weird you would mention being three goals up when we weren't all night. Unless you're still talking about the Hawthorn game? Was last night's game a choke too? Even though we were poor nearly all night (ie not good enough), and almost stole it?
Thought it was obvious I was talking about the hawks game since that's the one we were 3 goals up in...

Re: the dogs game, it had nothing to do with them "simply being better". We know we are good enough to beat the dogs, especially given they've lost practically their entire half back line. But we didn't turn up. We were second to the contest all night but were still in it at the death. That indicates we were clearly good enough. If we turned up mentally and committed to the contest like they were, we won.

See, you can say things like "we need to improve our mental toughness to close out big games away from home" without it being an attack on the club or something to be scared of.

That mentality that to highlight areas we are poor in and need to improve is somehow undermining the club is freaking weird and shit
 

Iron

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Thought it was obvious I was talking about the hawks game since that's the one we were 3 goals up in...

Re: the dogs game, it had nothing to do with them "simply being better". We know we are good enough to beat the dogs, especially given they've lost practically their entire half back line. But we didn't turn up. We were second to the contest all night but were still in it at the death. That indicates we were clearly good enough. If we turned up mentally and committed to the contest like they were, we won.

See, you can say things like "we need to improve our mental toughness to close out big games away from home" without it being an attack on the club or something to be scared of.

That mentality that to highlight areas we are poor in and need to improve is somehow undermining the club is freaking weird and shit
None of what you say is wrong, it's just the logic is backwards. It's like saying you have to fix all these sore throats without addressing the flu.

Our results since 2010 that everyone points to three or four times a day have been very average. Can't win big games, only beat up on smaller clubs, mentally weak, etc. But we also can't forget a very simple reason for all this - that we've just been a middle of the road team.

When we start winning the tough ones we'll suddenly say we're competitors. Because duh.

I think it's more of an excuse to say it's mental weakness and not admit that we just aren't good enough yet to beat the bulldogs at Etihad. We should concede we might be better than them anywhere but currently, not there. If we then look for a fix, it'll be about a lot of different things to work on, not just mental weakness, "we're better than them we just need to be switched on" nonsense.

Just my opinion.
 

mattymac

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#17
None of what you say is wrong, it's just the logic is backwards. It's like saying you have to fix all these sore throats without addressing the flu.

Our results since 2010 that everyone points to three or four times a day have been very average. Can't win big games, only beat up on smaller clubs, mentally weak, etc. But we also can't forget a very simple reason for all this - that we've just been a middle of the road team.

When we start winning the tough ones we'll suddenly say we're competitors. Because duh.

I think it's more of an excuse to say it's mental weakness and not admit that we just aren't good enough yet to beat the bulldogs at Etihad. We should concede we might be better than them anywhere but currently, not there. If we then look for a fix, it'll be about a lot of different things to work on, not just mental weakness, "we're better than them we just need to be switched on" nonsense.

Just my opinion.
For mine that's like seeing a leaky tap and trying to fix it by repairing the microwave.

We know we're good enough to beat the dogs. We played way below our best but still there was only 2 points in it with 90 seconds to play.

If we play to our potential we win that game you have to be wantonly blind not to see that.
 

macca23

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#18
We have a very astute group of decision makers in the club now - Don Pyke who apart from his footy nous is a self-made millionaire, Andrew Fagan who is as good as any other CEO in the game and Roo, who is in the same category as Pyke.

IMO they are perfectly capable of assessing whether our support coaches are up to scratch, whether we have the appropriate coaches in place, or whether we have a Voss amongst our midst. They would be constantly assessing in the background and at year end - not after 7 weeks - will make the appropriate decision on our assistant coaches.

The Jenkins one is a genuine issue. He has become as important to our future as any other player in the 22. While I don't think he is thinking of going elsewhere, the longer it takes the more likely that an offer that can't be refused will come from other clubs. FFS - lock him away for 4 years as he wanted and get it done. Justin Reid - show us that your appointment wasn't nepotism and that you have what it takes.

As for our performances, apart from getting slaughtered by the maggots in a couple of our games, we're about where we belong when you consider that we're in the tough half of our draw. We're not far off the best IMO but we aren't quite there either. Our attack is IMO the best in the league, our defence is reasonably good, but we are a bit light in the mid-field. A fit and healthy Brad Crouch would give this area a boost, but IMO to win a flag we need to recruit another quality mid-fielder.

Neale would be handy and is a real possibility. The one I would be throwing the kitchen sink at is Heppell - I acknowledge that the chances of getting him are slim - but add him to our mid-field and IMO you are talking top 4 and a real chance of a flag. the difference between being a 5th or 6th team and winning a flag.

As I said, we're not far off the best.
 

Bicks

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#19
We have a very astute group of decision makers in the club now - Don Pyke who apart from his footy nous is a self-made millionaire, Andrew Fagan who is as good as any other CEO in the game and Roo, who is in the same category as Pyke.

IMO they are perfectly capable of assessing whether our support coaches are up to scratch, whether we have the appropriate coaches in place, or whether we have a Voss amongst our midst. They would be constantly assessing in the background and at year end - not after 7 weeks - will make the appropriate decision on our assistant coaches.

The Jenkins one is a genuine issue. He has become as important to our future as any other player in the 22. While I don't think he is thinking of going elsewhere, the longer it takes the more likely that an offer that can't be refused will come from other clubs. FFS - lock him away for 4 years as he wanted and get it done. Justin Reid - show us that your appointment wasn't nepotism and that you have what it takes.

As for our performances, apart from getting slaughtered by the maggots in a couple of our games, we're about where we belong when you consider that we're in the tough half of our draw. We're not far off the best IMO but we aren't quite there either. Our attack is IMO the best in the league, our defence is reasonably good, but we are a bit light in the mid-field. A fit and healthy Brad Crouch would give this area a boost, but IMO to win a flag we need to recruit another quality mid-fielder.

Neale would be handy and is a real possibility. The one I would be throwing the kitchen sink at is Heppell - I acknowledge that the chances of getting him are slim - but add him to our mid-field and IMO you are talking top 4 and a real chance of a flag. the difference between being a 5th or 6th team and winning a flag.

As I said, we're not far off the best.
Do some research on Jack Steele, he's our boy.....
 

PCORF

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#20
This team has been stuck in the mud since that Collingwood game (Tarrant) in 2003. Probably have dropped more winnable games than any other club. 2nd half of 2015 we started winning big games, had a close finals victory but we have gone back to bad habits in 2016 throwing away two winnable games. There has not been much joy for me for a long time ...... 2013 and 2014 were disasters. Dropping the close ones gets you nowhere and you are always stuck. Huge game Friday, imagine what an upset win over Geelong could for this team ..... we need to win by less than a kick to get the belief back into this team.
 

TheLeftFist8

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#21
This team has been stuck in the mud since that Collingwood game (Tarrant) in 2003. Probably have dropped more winnable games than any other club. 2nd half of 2015 we started winning big games, had a close finals victory but we have gone back to bad habits in 2016 throwing away two winnable games. There has not been much joy for me for a long time ...... 2013 and 2014 were disasters. Dropping the close ones gets you nowhere and you are always stuck. Huge game Friday, imagine what an upset win over Geelong could for this team ..... we need to win by less than a kick to get the belief back into this team.
I'd be happier for a 10 goal win to give some belief!!

For the record, Geelong will win by 5 goals unless our lazy midfield extracts the digit AND the umpires little darling actually has to earn a legitimate free kick.
 
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Why would anyone be calling for a staff review seven rounds into a new season? A season, mind you, that no one saw us being ahead of the ledger come round 7 going in.
If you think clubs are not reviewing their players and coaches in all clubs you are not with it .
Only 2 weeks ago Hooker from Bombers first call was to Ross Lyon who was strongly trying to recruit him and they have Mcarthy is locked away all in the first few weeks. How many clubs do you reckon have spoken to JJ manager already this year.
Look some trying to make this as knee jerk negative about club , but evident that we are not quite there yet and 2017 looks a more viable premiership hope and whilst yes more leg speed in our mids but in our losses we have been smashed at centre clearances and really it is only our massive conversion ratio that keeping us and winning games and obviously to keep moving forward you have to fix your weaknesses . And all I am just putting out there is there are too many in our football department that have been there too long and we probably need a shake up and selected the two coaches I thought overdue to be replaced.
But by far the key to our clubs future and no 1 priority for our CEO is to sign JJ ASAP for reasons already stated and obvious and club.
 

Cap

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#23
This team has been stuck in the mud since that Collingwood game (Tarrant) in 2003. Probably have dropped more winnable games than any other club. 2nd half of 2015 we started winning big games, had a close finals victory but we have gone back to bad habits in 2016 throwing away two winnable games. There has not been much joy for me for a long time ...... 2013 and 2014 were disasters. Dropping the close ones gets you nowhere and you are always stuck. Huge game Friday, imagine what an upset win over Geelong could for this team ..... we need to win by less than a kick to get the belief back into this team.
Shouldn't be an upset win
 
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