We need to have a talk about Nathan Lyon

Coops93

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What's going on with him?

Since Birmingham where he took his last 5-for he's taken 14 wickets at an average 51.42 with a strike rate of 107 through 6 matches (12 innings). England noticeably played him differently after the first test, playing on the back foot as much as possible and very rarely pressing forward. Once they did that he really looked ineffective and he hasn't fared much better vs Pakistan - obviously a few wickets still left to be taken today/tomorrow so he could change that.

Has he been figured out? Does playing back to him basically blunt his attack completely? His biggest asset was always his sharp bounce, and when pressing forward this left batsmen vulnerable, but camping back to him means you can compensate for that bounce. What does he need to change to make this tactic less effective?
 

iluvparis

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In a shocking run of form it seems but deserves the entire summer to see if he can regain it for mine.
 

Coops93

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In a shocking run of form it seems but deserves the entire summer to see if he can regain it for mine.
Definitely, I'm not suggesting he be dropped. He's got oodles of time I think, unless we start losing - then the pressure might start building.
 

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Soups

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Taken two wickets now. Has a good chance to take a few more and find some form. But yes has been poor but who’s going to replace him if he’s dropped? Langer will back him in.
 

Coops93

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I'm not suggesting he be dropped, more asking how he recaptures form, and if the batsmen have figured out a technique to quell his attacks (sitting back to negating his bounce) how does he counter that.
 

tomsimpkin31

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Easy to say after he’s taken 5, but he has earned the right to some down patches. Has been a bloody good off spinner for a long time and is smart enough to work through some down times. unless someone comes from nowhere or he is consistently poor for a long time, the spot is his for another 5 years really.
 

cricketnut14

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Easy to say after he’s taken 5, but he has earned the right to some down patches. Has been a bloody good off spinner for a long time and is smart enough to work through some down times. unless someone comes from nowhere or he is consistently poor for a long time, the spot is his for another 5 years really.
it's also not easy when starc is in a purple patch and prior to that it was cummins.

when you have teams at 6/96, then generally the quicks have done most of the damage.

with 370 wickets from 93 tests he has been more than reliable. he has no serious competition for his place in the side in the near future.
 

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"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others."

Feel a bit the same way about Lyon. Sure he struggles at times for penetration and goes through the odd flat spot... but the others would average 50+ in test cricket if given the chance.

He's not perfect but he's comfortably the best we have.
 

Caesar

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Since Birmingham where he took his last 5-for he's taken 14 wickets at an average 51.42 with a strike rate of 107 through 6 matches (12 innings).
To a certain extent, you really need to look at those stats in the context of how well our quicks have been bowling over the same period. In a match where someone like Starc or Cummins is hoovering up the wickets, Lyon doesn't get thrown the ball in key moments and he gets less focused spells. It's hard to do well if you're bowling most of your overs to spin out the old ball or give the quicks a short rest.

It's certainly true that he didn't have a great series in England, particularly on a couple of occasions when we really needed him to step up... but it IS England. Far better spinners than Lyon have endured rough tours there.

If he's still struggling at the end of the summer, we can have a chat - but I'd be shocked if he doesn't take his fair share of wickets over the summer.
 

cricketnut14

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i aint his greatest fan, but credit where credit is due.

he's earnt the right to don the baggy green 100 times.

he should comfortably get 7 more tests.

he's a certainty for the next 3, then 2 in bang in our winter as we will take 2 spinners and not a hope in hell 2 spinners leapfrog him in that time, then 1st test next summer v afgh and then 1st test v india. so he gets to 100 caps this time next year and in worse case scenario by the end of next summer.

that may also see him with 400 wkts from 100 tests which would be one hell of an effort. (considering hazlewood is going great guns with 194 wkts from 50) - same rate.
 

frankrizzo

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Before the ashes i think the statline was 22 dropped catches(cant recall exact number it was around 20) off lyon in 2 years he then had stokes dropped multiple times and even in this test when people were whinging he had several dropped off his bowling, one series maybe it's no big deal and it evens out but it is something that has to be mentioned as the fielding off him is woeful and has been for a long time now, smith and warner in particular are awful close in catchers for the spinners.
 

Coops93

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Before the ashes i think the statline was 22 dropped catches(cant recall exact number it was around 20) off lyon in 2 years he then had stokes dropped multiple times and even in this test when people were whinging he had several dropped off his bowling, one series maybe it's no big deal and it evens out but it is something that has to be mentioned as the fielding off him is woeful and has been for a long time now, smith and warner in particular are awful close in catchers for the spinners.
That's an interesting stat, I didn't know that. Add to that the couple dropped by Lasagne last test as well.

Also in the Ashes Siddle had several catches dropped off him - around 5 iirc. His series looks a bit different if you add those wickets to his column.
 

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