Review We need to stop the bleeding

[Cap]

Lever was actually pretty decent tonight, especially with the amount of ball coming his way. He is very good at riding a tackle from someone and getting a handball or kick off. A little sloppy at times, but gotta remember he hasn't even played 20 games yet.

Sorry the turnovers part was in relation to the whole team.

I rate Lever too. But as you say. Rookie!

 

[pjcrows]

Well that's just a massive overreaction. All teams are conceding big scores this year, it just seems to be the way the game is being played. Once we start playing the likes of Carlton, Brisbane, GC etc our defensive stats will improve.

Our forward line alone could win us the flag this year, it is that damn good.

We've scored 100 points against three Top 4 teams - and lost. That is not a formula to win a flag in any year.

 

[GreyCrow]

Our forward line are saving our season but I also think our defenders are generally holding up well against the wave of inside 50s.

We need to stop the ball entering our forward line. Had they kicked straight we would have lost by at least 5 goals. Remember they kicked 6 goals last week against NorthZ

And if Douglas kicked his 2 points and the next miss after that we are even.

 

[BACCS]

I'd give us a 20% chance of finishing Top 4 now. You're going to need 17 or 18 wins this year. Can't lose three times in a row to other Top 4 aspirants and expect to make it. They're 8-point games.

We must win our next 3 - Cats, Suns, GWS - to be any chance.

I know we must win our next 3. If we win our next 3 I'm fairly certain we will be sitting in the top 4.

This is how I see our season panning out from here...

Geelong at home - An absolute must win, and from what I've seen so far a game we should win.
GC away - Will be a thrashing
GWS at home - Another absolute must win, and the Giants definitely aren't invisible away from home. A game we should win.
Saints at home - Will be a comfortable win
WC away - Probably a loss as we are terrible in WA, but again a game we can win.
North at home - Should win this, I still think their ladder position is massively inflating how good they actually are.
Melbourne away - Tough game, will be close
Carlton away - Should win, but Carlton are looking better. Really should be a comfortable win if we want top 4 though.
Collingwood at home - Thrashing
Geelong away - Probably a loss
Essendon at home - Thrashing
Brisbane at home - Thrashing
Fremantle away - (just a side note, we travel twice to Perth and also go to Geelong in the same season?! Yeah, balanced fixture...) - hopefully Freo are tanking by now
Port at home - Always a tough game to pick, will depend on how Port's season goes
Eagles at home - Should be a win, but will be tough.

It's possible to win 13 of those, 10-11 at worst. I think we will finish anywhere from 14-17 wins.

 

[pjcrows]

I know we must win our next 3. If we win our next 3 I'm fairly certain we will be sitting in the top 4.

This is how I see our season panning out from here...

Geelong at home - An absolute must win, and from what I've seen so far a game we should win.
GC away - Will be a thrashing
GWS at home - Another absolute must win, and the Giants definitely aren't invisible away from home. A game we should win.
Saints at home - Will be a comfortable win
WC away - Probably a loss as we are terrible in WA, but again a game we can win.
North at home - Should win this, I still think their ladder position is massively inflating how good they actually are.
Melbourne away - Tough game, will be close
Carlton away - Should win, but Carlton are looking better. Really should be a comfortable win if we want top 4 though.
Collingwood at home - Thrashing
Geelong away - Probably a loss
Essendon at home - Thrashing
Brisbane at home - Thrashing
Fremantle away - (just a side note, we travel twice to Perth and also go to Geelong in the same season?! Yeah, balanced fixture...) - hopefully Freo are tanking by now
Port at home - Always a tough game to pick, will depend on how Port's season goes
Eagles at home - Should be a win, but will be tough.

It's possible to win 13 of those, 10-11 at worst. I think we will finish anywhere from 14-17 wins.

I won't argue with that at all. You're probably spot on.

You suggested a small tinker with our defensive action and we could win a flag this year. I'm suggesting it's more significant than a bit of a tinker. We have glaring deficiencies and won't win a flag from, say, 6th.

 

[BACCS]

We've scored 100 points against three Top 4 teams - and lost. That is not a formula to win a flag in any year.

I'm sorry, but have you been watching other teams this season?

Geelong have played 2 other teams from the top 8 so far, Hawks and WC. Sydney have played WC, us and GWS. North have played us and the Bulldogs. Bulldogs have played Hawks, North and us. GWS have played Sydney, Hawks and Geelong (they are the best team in the comp for mine so far). Hawks have played Geelong, Bulldogs, Eagles and GWS (and so they should, they won the flag). Eagles have played Geelong, Sydney, Hawks and GWS (and so they should, made the GF last year). We have played Sydney, Hawks, Bulldogs and North, and will play Geelong, GWS and the Eagles in the next month.

Our brand of football is capable of winning the flag this year if the team defense can be improved, as I've mentioned a few times the flag race is wide open.

 

[BACCS]

I won't argue with that at all. You're probably spot on.

You suggested a small tinker with our defensive action and we could win a flag this year. I'm suggesting it's more significant than a bit of a tinker. We have glaring deficiencies and won't win a flag from, say, 6th.

I just don't think it is. All teams are getting easy goals over the back these days, you just can't stop them if you turn it over in a bad spot. Our skill errors in costly positions are more of an issue I believe. A lack of composure has been a major problem.

 

[Scorpus]

Part of the issue is having 3-4 players go for the ball at a stoppage when the opposition only has 1-2 going for the ball, leaving another 1-2 on the close outside of the contest. This leads to us conceding clearances even when we get first hands on the ball. Bulldogs tonight had a lot of players in tight packs getting the second or third possession to clear. We were, and have been this entire year, rubbish at that.

The only time we successfully win clearances is when one of the 3-4 that go for the ball get it and clear it outside to our gun outside players like Smith. Or when we can execute a ripping handball well outside the pack. We lack the ability to pass it to another player in the stoppage area effectively.

Clean this up and we start looking a lot better around stoppages, and a lot more defensively accountable.

Then we need to get tighter when there's a spread, preventing easy switches. We're getting better at stopping rubbish over the top goals, but we are still allowing too many inside 50s due to to slack defensive pressure, or a poorly configured press in the center of the ground.

We also need to clean up our disposal. We conceded goals tonight from awful turnovers that were easily preventable. It was a lot like the Crows of 2015 and earlier. If we execute that clearing handball or kick correctly and don't turn it over just outside the opposition's forward 50, we look better and perform better

 

[1970crow]

I think we need to give Campo some more time to settle into the role. You can't exoect to develop a defensive aspect to your midfield group in the mere 5 years he's had. Give him time.

 

[GreyCrow]

Part of the issue is having 3-4 players go for the ball at a stoppage when the opposition only has 1-2 going for the ball, leaving another 1-2 on the close outside of the contest. This leads to us conceding clearances even when we get first hands on the ball. Bulldogs tonight had a lot of players in tight packs getting the second or third possession to clear. We were, and have been this entire year, rubbish at that.

This bugged me as well. I think at one stage Hartigan, Lever and Talia all went up. One tried to mark it , one just wasn't in the contest and the other tried to punch. Ball fell free and Bullies away

The only time we successfully win clearances is when one of the 3-4 that go for the ball get it and clear it outside to our gun outside players like Smith. Or when we can execute a ripping handball well outside the pack. We lack the ability to pass it to another player in the stoppage area effectively.

I felt we were pushed inside too much. We had 4-5 inside the stoppage and Bullies had players outside. We give the little 1 foot handballs and pressure applied and off the Bullies went. So 2013

 

[skittlebrew]

This bugged me as well. I think at one stage Hartigan, Lever and Talia all went up. One tried to mark it , one just wasn't in the contest and the other tried to punch. Ball fell free and Bullies away

I think it relates back to the zone style defence. If you don't know whether you are in or not then you just have to go for it, which happened in that instance. Otherwise no one goes for it and you all look like proper turkeys.
If we were manning up, who should have killed it would have been clearer and it wouldn't have happened.
For the record it seems the zone style of defence is the way to go but it certainly has its weaknesses. Not just in that instance but also when are up against quality opposition - ala cyril in the GF for instance. Need a modified plan in those cases imo. Will take sometime to to perfect to say the least.

On paper I think our defence is pretty solid list wise. Sure Hartigan a weakness and Lever young but otherwise cant complain too much.

 

[Crows I Am]

Our game style relies so much on clean ball movement as we move the ball quickly up the ground, unfortunately when we don't hit targets all of our players are out of position which quite often will result in an easy forward entry to the opposition. When we hit our targets we are nearly unstoppable.

 

[Schulzycrow]

Not getting our fair share of clearances and not getting back fast enough in defence. Not spreading enough from the contest.
Sauce isn't the problem.
Hartigan isn't the problem.
Sloane isn't either.
In the past couple of games..
Not getting enough out of Tex, Thommo, Douglas, Mackay, Seed, Cheney, Talia and Mrouch.
We just made too many clangers or gave away dumb frees.
How many times in the past two weeks has Tex been smothered on the mark? How many times has Talia just shanked a kick out of defence?
How many easy goals has Douglas missed?
How many tackles has Mackay broken or stuck?
The fact we have still been in games right to the end in all of our losses means there is light at the end of the tunnel. Hard selections decisions need to be made.

 

[VSTone]

Our game style relies so much on clean ball movement as we move the ball quickly up the ground, unfortunately when we don't hit targets all of our players are out of position which quite often will result in an easy forward entry to the opposition. When we hit our targets we are nearly unstoppable.

if we are going to turn it over it needs to be from deep forward after JJ, Eddie & co. have had a chance to work on it...
the midfield turnovers are killing us...the dinky kick and the in tight hot handball are the main culprits... also our ability to be intercepted by the man on the mark is becoming a trend (this one is an awareness thing)... fix them or eliminate them and we become a much better unit defensively.

 

[VSTone]

I think it relates back to the zone style defence. If you don't know whether you are in or not then you just have to go for it, which happened in that instance. Otherwise no one goes for it and you all look like proper turkeys.
If we were manning up, who should have killed it would have been clearer and it wouldn't have happened.
For the record it seems the zone style of defence is the way to go but it certainly has its weaknesses. Not just in that instance but also when are up against quality opposition - ala cyril in the GF for instance. Need a modified plan in those cases imo. Will take sometime to to perfect to say the least.

On paper I think our defence is pretty solid list wise. Sure Hartigan a weakness and Lever young but otherwise cant complain too much.

is it our onfield communication system that is lacking in the zone defense... ?

 

[VSTone]

the good thing is - we are in this year up to our necks... something a lot of us thought we'd be out of by now given the draw... keep educating the players Don - the tide will eventually turn and if it does by September then by golly strap in folks!

 

[Mike Smyth]

We could have the best list in the competition ( which we dont) but you're not going to win too many games when the free kick count is 11-28.

We need to fix that urgently before it costs us another gf appearance. Victorian scum.

 

[Rotayjay]

Our defence has been highly suspect all year. Pykey needs to make some changes to the plan and structures, and fast. All three of our losses could easily have been wins - our average losing margin is 9.3 points. Cut out a few easy goals to the opposition and we are undefeated.

As the season goes on, it is becoming more apparent we are missing Catrick in the middle. I think losses like last night, and inside-50 counts like last night, highlight our need for one or two A-grade mids. We absolutely must target them in the off-season, and throw in another KPD for good measure.

 

[Elite Crow]

One good thing David King is good at is stats and in our case they paint a good picture of why we are being scored against so heavily:

We are ranked 18th for keeping the ball in our forward 50.
We are ranked 17th for getting the ball out of our defensive 50.
We are conceding 59 inside 50s a game, the premiership teams from 06-15 have averaged 46.
Minus 74 for contested possession in the mid zone.

Some of these stats are surprising.

18th for keeping the ball in our inside 50, are we too top heavy? Or is it because we score so efficiently we don't keep it in there for long? Either way Cameron isn't going anywhere.

17th for getting the ball out of our defensive 50, that is a shock. Are we too heavy, I think most have thought that.

But I put a lot of this on our midfield.

Firstly they are not winning enough contested ball meaning we are losing too many contests which means the opposition is and they are pumping our defenders.

Secondly they aren't winning enough clearances, again our defenders are getting pumped.

Thirdly they are not working hard enough full stop or they are incapable because of the type of players they are. They are not pushing forward enough to keep the ball in our forward line and they are not creating enough options for our defenders to kick to to get out.

Solutions? I have faith in Pykey that he's already working on some but he may not have the cattle to fix it this year.

Ideally Knight and Hampton would be fit and firing by now. Knight for his speed and gut running. Hampton again for his speed.

But we need to improve our contested ball and not with someone who can't run over the ground, can anyone think of a player that suits?

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Solutions? I have faith in Pykey that he's already working on some but he may not have the cattle to fix it this year.

Ideally Knight and Hampton would be fit and firing by now. Knight for his speed and gut running. Hampton again for his speed.

But we need to improve our contested ball and not with someone who can't run over the ground, can anyone think of a player that suits?

This is the vital question if we are going to improve enough to be a challenger come finals time.

A fit Brad Crouch is the best and most obvious answer but beyond that we may struggle...

While not fast, I'm sure Laird would cover the ground much better and try to defend better than our current inside mids but we would have to rob the defence.

Menzel…is he fit enough yet???

CEY…not a racehorse but not a snail either.

Possibly the other one who we could take a punt on is Gore.

Beyond that maybe more cameos from Charlie, Eddie and WMJ to add more pace. These guys are deceptively good in the contested ball stakes as well.

 

[1970crow]

One good thing David King is good at is stats and in our case they paint a good picture of why we are being scored against so heavily:

We are ranked 18th for keeping the ball in our forward 50.
We are ranked 17th for getting the ball out of our defensive 50.
We are conceding 59 inside 50s a game, the premiership teams from 06-15 have averaged 46.
Minus 74 for contested possession in the mid zone.

Some of these stats are surprising.

18th for keeping the ball in our inside 50, are we too top heavy? Or is it because we score so efficiently we don't keep it in there for long? Either way Cameron isn't going anywhere.

17th for getting the ball out of our defensive 50, that is a shock. Are we too heavy, I think most have thought that.

But I put a lot of this on our midfield.

Firstly they are not winning enough contested ball meaning we are losing too many contests which means the opposition is and they are pumping our defenders.

Secondly they aren't winning enough clearances, again our defenders are getting pumped.

Thirdly they are not working hard enough full stop or they are incapable because of the type of players they are. They are not pushing forward enough to keep the ball in our forward line and they are not creating enough options for our defenders to kick to to get out.

Solutions? I have faith in Pykey that he's already working on some but he may not have the cattle to fix it this year.

Ideally Knight and Hampton would be fit and firing by now. Knight for his speed and gut running. Hampton again for his speed.

But we need to improve our contested ball and not with someone who can't run over the ground, can anyone think of a player that suits?

I'm too drunk to know. Working a way to roll back to Adelaide and walk the Bulldogs through the parklands.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Few worries emerging including
*Jacobs struggling in ruck affecting clearances
* defenders trailing in and looking to support other defenders rather than defend their opponent first
* still not enough forward pressure I50. Betts , Cameron and McGovern exceptional but Tex and Jenkins offering nothing in this regard
* not enough numbers going through midfield . We had Thommo M Crouch Sloane B Crouch Douglas Mackay whereas dogs rotated up to 8 through there.
* we have versatile players but are we using their versatility enough ? Smith , Seedsman , Rat , Henderson should have swapped them around a bit more to add some freshness to wings and midfield . Basically we look like we were blowing up out there while the Bulldogs were rotating through and running harder
* that old bug bear - tackling technique !! Horrendous sat
* extra defender - do we need to deploy this more like Walsh favoured ?
* extra mid - do we need to congest the middle at times

Problems with out of form players as well now

Senior players Tex Jacobs and Douglas need to show the way this week

 

[Rotayjay]

Well that's just a massive overreaction. All teams are conceding big scores this year, it just seems to be the way the game is being played. Once we start playing the likes of Carlton, Brisbane, GC etc our defensive stats will improve.

Our forward line alone could win us the flag this year, it is that damn good.

This is the famous CD 'premiership standard' plot with 7 rounds played:

Geelong, Sydney and GWS are scoring almost as much as we are, whilst backing it up with far tighter defences. North are now almost in the magic 'fewer than 86 points against' zone. The Bulldogs and Eagles are in the 'too defensive' zone and Hawthorn are still stuck in the shitty zone.

We need to concede 2-3 goals less per game. I don't think the higher scoring across the league is really relevant. Geelong, Sydney and GWS are conceding far fewer than 86 points per game and we're conceding far more. However, what is relevant is the hard opposition we've played. Our draw is starting to open up and our points for and points against averages might improve markedly.

 

[GreyCrow]

Carlton are the interesting one for me. Not for this year of course. Most new coaches understand that you work on defence first and then introduce an attacking style from year 2.

 

[mistylake]

Getting sucked into the contest in the midfield is our major issue. Our midfield structure is s**t and on top of that our senior players are not performing in the middle. Sloane - invisible, Thompson - invisible tonight, Douglas - invisible the last couple of weeks, Mackay - Mackay. They aren't getting enough of the ball, they are getting sucked into bad positions and they aren't working hard enough into defense. Just shitty football being played in the middle by the Crows at the moment.

We come up against Danger and selwood Friday night