We still have one area of game we need to improve.

[Geoffa32]

Don't agree with this. Our gameplan is all about being incredibly efficient with the ball when we have it.

I hope not.
Won't stack up in real pressure.

 

[Scorpus]

I thought the issue highlighted by the OP might be locking the ball in our forward half and creating repeat I50s.

Not sure on stats, but do feel we are not great at this.

5th in the AFL at scores from front half

 

[Geoffa32]

5th in the AFL at scores from front half

That surprises me given how easy it is is to move the ball out of our F50


Is there a F50 Defensive Pressure stat? Be interesting to see where we sit there.


Also wonder if there is any skewing of these stats against top 8 sides.



Having said that, there has only been one and a half games we have truly been uncompetitive.

Freo game, second half against Geelong.

Every other game we could have won, and lost it in the last 5 minutes.

 

[Scorpus]

That surprises me given how easy it is is to move the ball out of our F50


Is there a F50 Defensive Pressure stat? Be interesting to see where we sit there.


Also wonder if there is any skewing of these stats against top 8 sides.



Having said that, there has only been one and a half games we have truly been uncompetitive.

Freo game, second half against Geelong.

Every other game we could have won, and lost it in the last 5 minutes.

We're actually #1 in the AFL for least opposition scores from our forward half (the opponent's defensive half) and #1 at preventing defensive 50 to forward 50 transition

 

[AFC979810]

I hope our gameplan hasn't been locking it in given how easily we let oppo teams stroll out of defence sometimes.

Where are we for opposition scores from our fwd half?

 

[AFC979810]

We're actually #1 in the AFL for least opposition scores from our forward half (the opponent's defensive half) and #1 at preventing defensive 50 to forward 50 transition

Too many hear a sound bite of us going to tall at the start of the season with 4 talls (Walker, TT, FOG, Curtin) and then carry it through the season.

 

[AFC979810]

Is there a F50 Defensive Pressure stat? Be interesting to see where we sit there.

Would probably be lower than most teams. Thats because we are so damn efficient when we get the ball inside 50 we dont need to have any defensive pressure because we score.

 

[AFC979810]

I hope not.
Won't stack up in real pressure.

Nah - A combination of elite efficiency inside 50 combined with being the #1 contested marking side in the AFL is exactly what stands up under real pressure.

Although your misses in this thread explain a lot about this comment.

 

[spenze]

It generally looks like we set up at CBA behind our opponent.
This makes it difficult to win clearances.
What this enables though is that the opposition cant just run out of the centre square and we are able to tackle and pressure their mids to create turnovers
It's frustrating watching us play from behind in the CBA's but the plan seems to be working

I guess it is less frustrating than seeing us on the inside getting pushed into the ruck contest, AKA the Sloane, Laird, Crouch special

 

[Geoffa32]

We're actually #1 in the AFL for least opposition scores from our forward half (the opponent's defensive half) and #1 at preventing defensive 50 to forward 50 transition

Is that indicative of our forward pressure or how good our defenders are?

I reckon our backline is one of the best in the league.

I guess coupled with the scores from forward half, you could suggest we are good at scoring from the high defensive wall.

We do win the ball a lot between our forward 50 and centre circle.

 

[AFC979810]

Is that indicative of our forward pressure or how good our defenders are?

I reckon our backline is one of the best in the league.

I guess coupled with the scores from forward half, you could suggest we are good at scoring from the high defensive wall.

We do win the ball a lot between our forward 50 and centre circle.

 

[Geoffa32]

Nah - A combination of elite efficiency inside 50 combined with being the #1 contested marking side in the AFL is exactly what stands up under real pressure.

Although your misses in this thread explain a lot about this comment.

What misses.

Yet to see a stat showing defensive pressure inside our f50.


But that stats Scorpus has shown suggests we compensate by our defensive effort up the ground.

Which is important given we do play such a big forward structure.



You are essentially calling us front runners. Relying on clean skills and efficient ball movement.

We are grittier than that.

 

[Eddie Murphy]

Don't agree with this. Our gameplan is all about being incredibly efficient with the ball when we have it.

There is a reason we are 4th for Inside 50's, 2nd for Points Scored and 9th for tackles inside 50.

I think this is the brand we want to play every week, but we change to a territorial battle against good teams slog our ball movement.

 

[Geoffa32]

I think this is the brand we want to play every week, but we change to a territorial battle against good teams slog our ball movement.

That is because you can't play "efficient" football against good teams.


It doesn't stack up in Finals.

 

[Geoffa32]

We rank 6th for clearances overall and rank 2nd in effective first clearance possessions. We also rank 1st for ground ball gets and second for hard ball gets. Second for contested possessions. First for post clearance contested possessions and ground ball gets.

Comfortable we're ok in this area of the game.

A good Blueprint for September.

 

[AFC979810]

What misses.

Yet to see a stat showing defensive pressure inside our f50.


But that stats Scorpus has shown suggests we compensate by our defensive effort up the ground.

Which is important given we do play such a big forward structure.



You are essentially calling us front runners. Relying on clean skills and efficient ball movement.

We are grittier than that.

We are sitting top 3 and have played 15 of the 17 AFL sides. We are the best performing team in a category you raised as an issue.

If you and the OP were to create a list of the issues the club needed to address and then the club was to do the opposite - I would mortgage my house on us winning the flag.

 

[Geoffa32]

We are sitting top 3 and have played 15 of the 17 AFL sides. We are the best performing team in a category you raised as an issue.

If you and the OP were to create a list of the issues the club needed to address and then the club was to do the opposite - I would mortgage my house on us winning the flag.

We are the best in the AFL at keeping the ball inside our F50 through forward defensive pressure?

 

[Golumless]

Is that indicative of our forward pressure or how good our defenders are?

I reckon our backline is one of the best in the league.

I guess coupled with the scores from forward half, you could suggest we are good at scoring from the high defensive wall.

We do win the ball a lot between our forward 50 and centre circle.

Bit of both really, you need good forward pressure to stop transition play as much as you need good defenders, as the easiest way to break a zonal defense is to run at it.

Unfortunately there isn't a publicly available F50 pressure stat, but for the last 10 games (which mostly covers the switch in style from a free-wheeling offense to the meanest defense in the league), we're top 4 for tackles inside 50, and 2nd in tackles inside 50 differential. I think you can assume there is a correlation between tackles and pressure acts for good teams (and not so much for the bad teams).

Defensively, the profile looks sound from the stats we have available, which is reflected in that we have the lowest opposition xscore in the league in this period (68 points). The problem is more offense at the moment, though its hard to rule out a player quality issue, especially with Rankine not quite hitting the heights of the last two years.

 

[Geoffa32]

Bit of both really, you need good forward pressure to stop transition play as much as you need good defenders, as the easiest way to break a zonal defense is to run at it.

Unfortunately there isn't a publicly available F50 pressure stat, but for the last 10 games (which mostly covers the switch in style from a free-wheeling offense to the meanest defense in the league), we're top 4 for tackles inside 50, and 2nd in tackles inside 50 differential. I think you can assume there is a correlation between tackles and pressure acts for good teams (and not so much for the bad teams).

Defensively, the profile looks sound from the stats we have available, which is reflected in that we have the lowest opposition xscore in the league in this period (68 points). The problem is more offense at the moment, though that may simply be a player quality issue with the style we're playing.

Thanks for this.

The data you, Feenix and Scorpus points to a game style that might not be pretty, but has a chance at standing up in September.

 

[maxlilly]

I guess it is less frustrating than seeing us on the inside getting pushed into the ruck contest, AKA the Sloane, Laird, Crouch special

Yep, nothing worse than seeing the opposiiton mids running straight at goal unhindered.
Doesn't give your backman much of a chance

 

[Golumless]

I wonder if this is a Davis mindset change?

Did we previously put a lot of stock in stoppage wins? Crouch midfield numero uno*, push extra numbers (often Murphy) up to each stoppage - sacrificing 1 or even 2 forwards

I don't think we're setting up to lose stoppages now or anything, just not putting all our eggs in the winning stoppages basket.

*I know Crouch is injured now and played at the start of the season but I'll be interested to see if he returns.

Not particularly. We definitely liked extra numbers around the stoppages as a defensive support, however, it looks more like it was as much a way to mitigate a deficiency more than a "this is the way we wanted to play" and an attempt to feed our turnover game.

Generally the 2023 side was pretty potent at scoring off winning the ball via turnover (1st in AFL) and stoppage (3rd in AFL), though we were the 6th worst side at conceding scores from stoppage that year, and good at preventing scores from turnover (5th). Of course, it's worth mentioning there were a lot of stoppages as we won the 2nd most clearances in the league and conceded the 2nd most clearances in the league that year.

 

[spenze]

Yep, nothing worse than seeing the opposiiton mids running straight at goal unhindered.
Doesn't give your backman much of a chance

Yep. This is where I think Butts got a bad rap from supporters from. We had so manny games where the opposition ran unhindered through the middle and hit the full forward with a 30 metre stab pass. Peak Silvagni wouldn't have stopped the FF but it was obviously Butts fault and not the shit job further up ground. Now that we have swapped out Sloane, Laird and Crouch for Dawson, Peatling and Sogs, the opposition get more pressure, resulting in harder kicks to mark, easier to defend and our backs look good.

Bring Crouch back and you'll get to see his man run through the middle like the seas have parted, lacing out passes we could only dream of stopping.

 

[maxlilly]

Yep. This is where I think Butts got a bad rap from supporters from. We had so manny games where the opposition ran unhindered through the middle and hit the full forward with a 30 metre stab pass. Peak Silvagni wouldn't have stopped the FF but it was obviously Butts fault and not the shit job further up ground. Now that we have swapped out Sloane, Laird and Crouch for Dawson, Peatling and Sogs, the opposition get more pressure, resulting in harder kicks to mark, easier to defend and our backs look good.

Bring Crouch back and you'll get to see his man run through the middle like the seas have parted, lacing out passes we could only dream of stopping.

It's nice to see how our midfield has developed and we now have a bit of speed through there
Definately makes it easier to defend when you can put pressure on the opposition mids
I'm pretty sure the Crouch ship has sailed, I cant see him getting back in now

 

[spenze]

It's nice to see how our midfield has developed and we now have a bit of speed through there
Definately makes it easier to defend when you can put pressure on the opposition mids
I'm pretty sure the Crouch ship has sailed, I cant see him getting back in now

I'd like to have your faith but we are already onto the "break glass in emergency" players in Murph and Smithers.

 

[Golumless]

It's nice to see how our midfield has developed and we now have a bit of speed through there
Definately makes it easier to defend when you can put pressure on the opposition mids
I'm pretty sure the Crouch ship has sailed, I cant see him getting back in now

Nowhere near, as a 19.1 disposal/6 ground ball get/4.4 clearance line (which is Berry since he moved from the sub) has left that door wide open.