Strength Weight Training: Anything and Everything II

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go you pups

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I still don't buy the argument that trap bars are as dangerous. You aren't going to be "flapping about in the wind" with them unless, as you say, you're ego lifting - you'd have to be tremendously reckless to screw them up.

The consensus is that it's easier to teach and perform trap-bar deadlifts than conventional deadlifts. Although you could strongly argue they aren't better, they are a perfectly viable alternative for non-competitive lifters to conventional as far as I can tell.

As for the SSB bar, some argue that not only is it fine for non-competitors, but even professionals could use them 90% of the time.


You can still get crazy stupid strength using a trap-bar and SSB bar, I'd wager.
Apparently the Swiss bar helps people with dodgy shoulders bench without discomfort also, so in ways it has similarities with a SSB in helping the shoulders out. Though my shoulders are ok on bench, it would be a good alternative to use instead of hitting dumbbells.

Tbf all 3 of a swiss bar, SSB and trap bar is high on my buy list over summer, swiss and trap bars due to versatility, SSB because my shoulder flexibility stinks and will take months to loosen up with physio, but it'll be easier to do split squats and good mornings with (haven't bothered as my current squat rack is too low to back squat, so only front squatted in it with light weight, though will be buying a new rack over the weekend, so will need to start stretching the shoulders out properly again)
 

showdownhero

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I still don't buy the argument that trap bars are as dangerous. You aren't going to be "flapping about in the wind" with them unless, as you say, you're ego lifting - you'd have to be tremendously reckless to screw them up.

The consensus is that it's easier to teach and perform trap-bar deadlifts than conventional deadlifts. Although you could strongly argue they aren't better, they are a perfectly viable alternative for non-competitive lifters to conventional as far as I can tell.

As for the SSB bar, some argue that not only is it fine for non-competitors, but even professionals could use them 90% of the time.


You can still get crazy stupid strength using a trap-bar and SSB bar, I'd wager.
This all started because you made the following claim

Yeah, I'm not surprised AFL clubs probably steer clear of conventional squats and deadlifts because of the increased risk of injury.
With the amount of professional oversight AFL players receive in a weights room. This is patently false statement. There is no greater risk of injury when performing a properly executed deadlift with a barbell than with a trapbar, same goes for SSB.

A lift being “easier to teach” newbies, means very little when put in the context of a strength and conditioning program of an AFL player.

As I said previously I can think of plenty of reasons why AFL players wouldn’t be using barbells to squat and deadlift but “the increased risk of injury” is most definitely not one of them.
 

Coolangatta

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Yeah, I understand, it wouldn't make a difference for AFL players and other professional athletes, but for the general population, I think it would because I doubt most people are lifting with great form, myself included. Maybe it wouldn't matter much for the SSB bar, but your lifts would have to be pretty f*n bad to get injured with the trap bar, but I don't think conventional DLs are "easy" to do.
 

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Drumroe

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Could just simplify it to this:

For athletes the goal of the deadlift is to produce speed, force and power and the trap bar allows for greater outputs, so why would you use a straight bar? I really see very minimal need for athletes to do straight bar deads.

Essentially the last couple points in this article.




Sent from my CPH1979 using Tapatalk
 

Coolangatta

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Does that also apply to professional fighting? I mean, would it be advantageous to train for brute strength over athleticism, or would fighters be better off using the trap-bar instead? I only ask not because I'm a professional fighter but because my main motivation for lifting is not making myself an easy target for being attacked in public. It's not the only thing you can do or the best thing, but it surely helps. Is someone who can straight bar deadlift 220kg automatically going to have a combative advantage over someone who can straight bar deadlift 170kg, or is there a certain cut-off point for how useful raw strength is for defending yourself?
 

Andre

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Does that also apply to professional fighting? I mean, would it be advantageous to train for brute strength over athleticism, or would fighters be better off using the trap-bar instead? I only ask not because I'm a professional fighter but because my main motivation for lifting is not making myself an easy target for being attacked in public. It's not the only thing you can do or the best thing, but it surely helps. Is someone who can straight bar deadlift 220kg automatically going to have a combative advantage over someone who can straight bar deadlift 170kg, or is there a certain cut-off point for how useful raw strength is for defending yourself?
Fighters want Power rather than Strength. They need a reasonable strength base, but if it's starting to slow you down / make you less flexible then it's not really any help. You're also unlikely to look greatly different in clothes with a 220kg vs 170kg deadlift. Really if being able to defend yourself is a key aim then picking a martial art / MMA and getting to a decent level in that is going to help you sh*t loads more than 50kg on your deadlift, if some drunk dickhead decides you've looked at him wrongly.
 

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IMG-20210929-WA0022.jpeg


3,2,3 at 110kg and 2 + 2 at 115kg

Did my last push session on the old rack on Saturday morning, so only a 4 and a bit day turnover to today, but wanted to test the new rack out. Probably had a few more reps in me if I had a day or 2 extra rest, but good to feel safe with the westside spacing and know I can bail out instead of keeping within limits, probably go up to 120kg, maybe 125kg for singles next week (haven't gone over 120kg for bench since 2010)

Will do some sort of squat in it tomorrow

Old rack chin up height was around 208-209cm, new one has one at the front and one at the back so working at 221cm at the front and 195cm at the back, gives a bit of versatility for my high pulley to flip between the two, might be able to do seated rows on my bench using the lower one, while the higher one gives me better leverage angles for triceps ropes and full range pulldowns on the floor.
 

Upgrayedd

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Best way to stop slaughtering my hands with the deadlifts? started using chalk but my trainer showed me this ******* weird thumb over hold which is gross.
 

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Best way to stop slaughtering my hands with the deadlifts? started using chalk but my trainer showed me this ******* weird thumb over hold which is gross.
Like stopping the calluses and tearing your hands?

Change ya grip apparently, according to Rip

I only ever had issues in my teens, seemed like I built a natural immunity eventually (nek minnut I'll rip my hands deadlifting tomorrow)

 

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Also I occasionally hook grip deadlift (probably what your trainer showed you), depends how my grip strength is or if my hands are slippery that particular day as I'm unlikely to change back to an underhand/overhand grip

I think using thicker barbells helps with grip strength too, deadlift bars are normally around 27mm shafts, though most power bars are 28-29mm shafts, found a 30mm bar though from the same supplier I bought my new rack from, interested.
 

Upgrayedd

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I usually go one overhand/one underhand but finding whatever im overhanding grip its killing my hands. Yeah the guy showed me the hook grip, may drop some weight and get comfortable with it next monday
 

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showdownhero

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If you want to train forearms then train them. Dont need to try to incorporate them into your lats session or whatever
there really shouldn't be a significant strength disparity between what you can deadlift, row, shrug, etc. and your grip strength
 

Jugada

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there really shouldn't be a significant strength disparity between what you can deadlift, row, shrug, etc. and your grip strength
Rubbish. If you are lifting heavy then naturally your forearms are going to fatigue if you are exerting them on every pull exercise. As soon as you are struggling to hold the bar then it makes no sense what so ever to not use straps because you're grip and forearms will be giving out before the muscle you're actually trying to exercise. All you are doing is holding yourself back from putting the muscle you are actually trying to grow under enough stress.

Nothing but gym bro stuff thinking you should lift without straps
 

phantom13

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Rubbish. If you are lifting heavy then naturally your forearms are going to fatigue if you are exerting them on every pull exercise. As soon as you are struggling to hold the bar then it makes no sense what so ever to not use straps because you're grip and forearms will be giving out before the muscle you're actually trying to exercise. All you are doing is holding yourself back from putting the muscle you are actually trying to grow under enough stress.

Nothing but gym bro stuff thinking you should lift without straps
Use straps cause your forearms are weak and also train forearms.


Got it.
 

showdownhero

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Rubbish. If you are lifting heavy then naturally your forearms are going to fatigue if you are exerting them on every pull exercise. As soon as you are struggling to hold the bar then it makes no sense what so ever to not use straps because you're grip and forearms will be giving out before the muscle you're actually trying to exercise. All you are doing is holding yourself back from putting the muscle you are actually trying to grow under enough stress.

Nothing but gym bro stuff thinking you should lift without straps
Settle pettle, I never said that they should never be used #gymbrocertified

However if a strength gap is identified between the forearms and other muscles the best course of action is to close that gap as opposed to becoming overly reliant on straps.
 

RU_

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Started a new program as 12 weeks from comp, proceeded to start at a second gym that’s closer to home some days and didn’t realise that the new gym has 25kg, 20kg, 15kg and 10kg black plates - only saw the 20kg and 10kg ones and presumed that’s what they all are, proceeded to pull a 200kg rep PB of 6 all the while thinking I have turned weak as piss in a week as I couldn’t lift 162.5kg for 8’s!
 

Upgrayedd

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Started a new program as 12 weeks from comp, proceeded to start at a second gym that’s closer to home some days and didn’t realise that the new gym has 25kg, 20kg, 15kg and 10kg black plates - only saw the 20kg and 10kg ones and presumed that’s what they all are, proceeded to pull a 200kg rep PB of 6 all the while thinking I have turned weak as piss in a week as I couldn’t lift 162.5kg for 8’s!
Today I had a huge day at work and was struggling with some high reps of 110, thinking "I must be spent" last set went fu** it chuck on an extra 10

Turns out completely miscalculated and was going 120 kilo, thought I was at 110, ended on a set of 8 times 130 which explained something.
 

go you pups

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Started a new program as 12 weeks from comp, proceeded to start at a second gym that’s closer to home some days and didn’t realise that the new gym has 25kg, 20kg, 15kg and 10kg black plates - only saw the 20kg and 10kg ones and presumed that’s what they all are, proceeded to pull a 200kg rep PB of 6 all the while thinking I have turned weak as piss in a week as I couldn’t lift 162.5kg for 8’s!
Is your new gym more accommodating for powerlifters?

Nice stuff by the way with those numbers, 200 at 6 surely means you have 250 in ya.

I benched 132.5 and 135kg singles on Wednesday after working my way up with quadruples at 110 and 120 and doubles at 125 and 127.5, heaviest I've gone in my garage set up (though having a new westside spacing rack helps bigtime). Was absolutely rapt with pumping out 4 at 120, 120 has historically been double or triple territory for me, though for some reason, my traps and rhomboids has gone full DOMS too with the pecs (did engage more of a tighter powerlifting type lift here driving through the legs and retracting the scapula, just without the huge lower back arch)
 

RU_

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Is your new gym more accommodating for powerlifters?

Nice stuff by the way with those numbers, 200 at 6 surely means you have 250 in ya.

I benched 132.5 and 135kg singles on Wednesday after working my way up with quadruples at 110 and 120 and doubles at 125 and 127.5, heaviest I've gone in my garage set up (though having a new westside spacing rack helps bigtime). Was absolutely rapt with pumping out 4 at 120, 120 has historically been double or triple territory for me, though for some reason, my traps and rhomboids has gone full DOMS too with the pecs (did engage more of a tighter powerlifting type lift here driving through the legs and retracting the scapula, just without the huge lower back arch)
Yeah the new gym is a lot more accomodating, more of a strongman style gym but has the equipment I need.

I’ve pulled a jackhammer legs 240 in the past. This comp we are prepping for a 200/130/260. Sleeved squat.

If I get anywhere near 130 bench I’ll be cheering.
 

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