Strength Weight Training: Anything and Everything II

Aug 11, 2006
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How necessary are they, though? AFL training isn't powerlifting, so I don't see why they couldn't use SSB squats, single-leg movements, and trap-bar deadlifts as alternatives. I don't think they're easy movements to learn, and they aren't necessary to develop a good base of fitness and strength, which would be the most logical answer to my question of why you wouldn't do them that I can think of.
Eagles gym doesnt have any trap bar in sight. I think if some jerkoff is going to go start deadlifting with no supervision yeah the trapbar could probably force them into better form, every club has a professional trainer for every gym session so I dont think there is much risk of athletes hurting themselves just doing regular squats
 

Drumroe

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Eagles gym doesnt have any trap bar in sight. I think if some jerkoff is going to go start deadlifting with no supervision yeah the trapbar could probably force them into better form, every club has a professional trainer for every gym session so I dont think there is much risk of athletes hurting themselves just doing regular squats
Eagles gym 100% has Trap bars.... Don't know where you're getting that from.

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Coolangatta

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I still don't buy the argument that trap bars are as dangerous. You aren't going to be "flapping about in the wind" with them unless, as you say, you're ego lifting - you'd have to be tremendously reckless to screw them up.

The consensus is that it's easier to teach and perform trap-bar deadlifts than conventional deadlifts. Although you could strongly argue they aren't better, they are a perfectly viable alternative for non-competitive lifters to conventional as far as I can tell.

As for the SSB bar, some argue that not only is it fine for non-competitors, but even professionals could use them 90% of the time.



You can still get crazy stupid strength using a trap-bar and SSB bar, I'd wager.
 
Jun 27, 2013
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I still don't buy the argument that trap bars are as dangerous. You aren't going to be "flapping about in the wind" with them unless, as you say, you're ego lifting - you'd have to be tremendously reckless to screw them up.

The consensus is that it's easier to teach and perform trap-bar deadlifts than conventional deadlifts. Although you could strongly argue they aren't better, they are a perfectly viable alternative for non-competitive lifters to conventional as far as I can tell.

As for the SSB bar, some argue that not only is it fine for non-competitors, but even professionals could use them 90% of the time.



You can still get crazy stupid strength using a trap-bar and SSB bar, I'd wager.

Apparently the Swiss bar helps people with dodgy shoulders bench without discomfort also, so in ways it has similarities with a SSB in helping the shoulders out. Though my shoulders are ok on bench, it would be a good alternative to use instead of hitting dumbbells.

Tbf all 3 of a swiss bar, SSB and trap bar is high on my buy list over summer, swiss and trap bars due to versatility, SSB because my shoulder flexibility stinks and will take months to loosen up with physio, but it'll be easier to do split squats and good mornings with (haven't bothered as my current squat rack is too low to back squat, so only front squatted in it with light weight, though will be buying a new rack over the weekend, so will need to start stretching the shoulders out properly again)
 
Oct 6, 2005
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on a journey through time and space
I still don't buy the argument that trap bars are as dangerous. You aren't going to be "flapping about in the wind" with them unless, as you say, you're ego lifting - you'd have to be tremendously reckless to screw them up.

The consensus is that it's easier to teach and perform trap-bar deadlifts than conventional deadlifts. Although you could strongly argue they aren't better, they are a perfectly viable alternative for non-competitive lifters to conventional as far as I can tell.

As for the SSB bar, some argue that not only is it fine for non-competitors, but even professionals could use them 90% of the time.



You can still get crazy stupid strength using a trap-bar and SSB bar, I'd wager.


This all started because you made the following claim

Yeah, I'm not surprised AFL clubs probably steer clear of conventional squats and deadlifts because of the increased risk of injury.

With the amount of professional oversight AFL players receive in a weights room. This is patently false statement. There is no greater risk of injury when performing a properly executed deadlift with a barbell than with a trapbar, same goes for SSB.

A lift being “easier to teach” newbies, means very little when put in the context of a strength and conditioning program of an AFL player.

As I said previously I can think of plenty of reasons why AFL players wouldn’t be using barbells to squat and deadlift but “the increased risk of injury” is most definitely not one of them.
 

Coolangatta

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Yeah, I understand, it wouldn't make a difference for AFL players and other professional athletes, but for the general population, I think it would because I doubt most people are lifting with great form, myself included. Maybe it wouldn't matter much for the SSB bar, but your lifts would have to be pretty *ing bad to get injured with the trap bar, but I don't think conventional DLs are "easy" to do.
 

Drumroe

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Could just simplify it to this:

For athletes the goal of the deadlift is to produce speed, force and power and the trap bar allows for greater outputs, so why would you use a straight bar? I really see very minimal need for athletes to do straight bar deads.

Essentially the last couple points in this article.





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Coolangatta

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Does that also apply to professional fighting? I mean, would it be advantageous to train for brute strength over athleticism, or would fighters be better off using the trap-bar instead? I only ask not because I'm a professional fighter but because my main motivation for lifting is not making myself an easy target for being attacked in public. It's not the only thing you can do or the best thing, but it surely helps. Is someone who can straight bar deadlift 220kg automatically going to have a combative advantage over someone who can straight bar deadlift 170kg, or is there a certain cut-off point for how useful raw strength is for defending yourself?
 
Jun 27, 2013
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When you buy a new power rack (a huge upgrade on what you used previously), follow tracking information on expected delivery date, the day before expected delivery you dissemble the old rack, rearrange the mats, give garage a vacuum etc.

Then come delivery day, the delivery guy doesn't rock up until after four ******* thirty in the arvo after waiting around for him all day, takes an hour to unbox everything and bin most of the waste (have to save room until next weeks bin), look over the manual and hardware, get an idea what to do, inspect the steel and working parts, all looks in good nick and looks to be of pretty decent quality, start putting it together by yourself, aside from being a little awkward it is pretty straightforward to assemble, then when it gets to putting up the rear stabiliser that weighs like 20kgs, you can only put 1 bolt in strongarming it and can't go any further because everyone is asleep...

Thanks delivery driver you absolute flog for having me near the end of your run, won't have this done until like Friday if these wrenches I bought don't fit
 
Jun 27, 2013
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Ok, elevated myself and was able to fluke it in place

20210928_210439.jpg
 
Jun 27, 2013
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Ok, calling it a night

20210928_222159.jpg




Halfway done tightening it, thankfully the 24mm socket and wrench I bought last week fit the M16 hardware perfectly (biggest bolts/nuts I've used so far, most of my other equipment is M12 or M10). Done most of the base which was the hardest to tighten and only a couple up top, but should hold overnight unless another earthquake occurs

Got out of there at 1015, was getting a bit late with my ratchet socket grinding away tightening stuff up, probably annoyed the neighbours, but eh, delivery driver should've came earlier, haven't had tea yet and don't know if I will, but I need a lie down.

Wasted like an hour putting up that Rugged R crossmember, but anyways, on the home stretch, wont take long to tighten the rest tomorrow, will bench in it tomorrow and deadlift on Thursday :) might whack my high pulley on it too and do some triceps, actually good to have 2 different chin up bars on it for my high pulley and they're about 10-12 inches difference in height, can vary the heights for different exercises

Looking forward to utilising the westside spacing, will be able to find the perfect safety height so I can smash out bench properly instead of staying well within limits like I did on my old rack for nearly a year because it only had 3 inch spacings which was either too high or too low (only hit 120kgs on old rack twice and was when I had a spot available)


This rack has a couple of well priced attachments which I'll look to get around Xmas time should they be in stock, lat pulldown, dip attachment, weight storage pegs all on the radar. Will probably grab the matching flat bench as it looks rock solid too, then I'll save up for specialty barbells in 2022 for training variation.

Will need an extra pair of J cups if someone trains with me and some safety spotter arms too as it only came with pin pipes and while they'll do the job and the pipes are beefy as, they're quite noisy and could damage the barbell if I'm failing alot, the spotter arms will provide better padding/shock absorption and be easier to use/setup, though I'll probably use the pin pipes for squats still as it'll give full rack coverage (spotter arms for bench/rack pulls)

All in all it looks pretty decent for something made in China, really nice powder coat on it (American brand though, part of the Body-Solid range). A huge upgrade on what I was using over the last year, only $220 more on the base price too (will sell the old rack for a $200-250 loss later in the year after lockdown, but eh, looks like I've well and truly thumped the problem out of the park, wish I found these guys last year, but better now than never).



*took me a good half hour writing this :(
 
Sep 3, 2002
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Does that also apply to professional fighting? I mean, would it be advantageous to train for brute strength over athleticism, or would fighters be better off using the trap-bar instead? I only ask not because I'm a professional fighter but because my main motivation for lifting is not making myself an easy target for being attacked in public. It's not the only thing you can do or the best thing, but it surely helps. Is someone who can straight bar deadlift 220kg automatically going to have a combative advantage over someone who can straight bar deadlift 170kg, or is there a certain cut-off point for how useful raw strength is for defending yourself?
Fighters want Power rather than Strength. They need a reasonable strength base, but if it's starting to slow you down / make you less flexible then it's not really any help. You're also unlikely to look greatly different in clothes with a 220kg vs 170kg deadlift. Really if being able to defend yourself is a key aim then picking a martial art / MMA and getting to a decent level in that is going to help you s**t loads more than 50kg on your deadlift, if some drunk dickhead decides you've looked at him wrongly.
 
Jun 27, 2013
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IMG-20210929-WA0022.jpeg


3,2,3 at 110kg and 2 + 2 at 115kg

Did my last push session on the old rack on Saturday morning, so only a 4 and a bit day turnover to today, but wanted to test the new rack out. Probably had a few more reps in me if I had a day or 2 extra rest, but good to feel safe with the westside spacing and know I can bail out instead of keeping within limits, probably go up to 120kg, maybe 125kg for singles next week (haven't gone over 120kg for bench since 2010)

Will do some sort of squat in it tomorrow

Old rack chin up height was around 208-209cm, new one has one at the front and one at the back so working at 221cm at the front and 195cm at the back, gives a bit of versatility for my high pulley to flip between the two, might be able to do seated rows on my bench using the lower one, while the higher one gives me better leverage angles for triceps ropes and full range pulldowns on the floor.
 
Jun 27, 2013
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Best way to stop slaughtering my hands with the deadlifts? started using chalk but my trainer showed me this ******* weird thumb over hold which is gross.
Like stopping the calluses and tearing your hands?

Change ya grip apparently, according to Rip

I only ever had issues in my teens, seemed like I built a natural immunity eventually (nek minnut I'll rip my hands deadlifting tomorrow)

 
Jun 27, 2013
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Also I occasionally hook grip deadlift (probably what your trainer showed you), depends how my grip strength is or if my hands are slippery that particular day as I'm unlikely to change back to an underhand/overhand grip

I think using thicker barbells helps with grip strength too, deadlift bars are normally around 27mm shafts, though most power bars are 28-29mm shafts, found a 30mm bar though from the same supplier I bought my new rack from, interested.
 

Jugada

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there really shouldn't be a significant strength disparity between what you can deadlift, row, shrug, etc. and your grip strength

Rubbish. If you are lifting heavy then naturally your forearms are going to fatigue if you are exerting them on every pull exercise. As soon as you are struggling to hold the bar then it makes no sense what so ever to not use straps because you're grip and forearms will be giving out before the muscle you're actually trying to exercise. All you are doing is holding yourself back from putting the muscle you are actually trying to grow under enough stress.

Nothing but gym bro stuff thinking you should lift without straps
 
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