Toast WELCOME BACK: Grant Thomas

Aug 9, 2006
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GT actually built his own list. Before him we had made the 97 grand final only to start to free fall. He managed to build a list that Lyon inherited and wasn't added to in any significant way once he left. Once GTs generation of stars went we had nothing coming up underneath and so find ourselves where we are with a list made out of the bins of other sides.

My criticism of him is that he wasn't an elite coach. He admitted himself that he wasn't a strategic match day coach. I don't doubt that he did some good things, but he fell down in that key area, IMO.
 
GT built a list on the back of a bucketload of early picks (including priority picks when the AFL was semi-serious about an equal competition). It can also be argued that GT wrecked the chances of that list winning multiple flags after overuling the Judd/Ball decision and a scant regard to injury prevention (like employing Starcevich who totally stuffed up one preseason).

The list that Lyon inherited was nowhere near as talented as the one GT had IMO. We had lost some fantastic players to retirement or injury and thanks to GT's theory of paying 80% of the cap to 'his boys', couldn't afford to replace them with any thing but role players.

Lyon may have had prime career Roo, Lenny, etc but the bottom 6 of that team were nowhere near the quality of what GT had at his disposal.

IMO of course.


As opposed to how Lyon left the list. Even the scant years under GT we still got guys like Fisher, Gilbert and Armo. Under Lyon we hardly found a player that was up to standard. Lyon also retired a lot of those talented guys who were injured under GT. He preferred role players like Zac Dawson to injury prone older guys like Goose and Maxy H.
 
My criticism of him is that he wasn't an elite coach. He admitted himself that he wasn't a strategic match day coach. I don't doubt that he did some good things, but he fell down in that key area, IMO.


As oppsed to all the premierships we won with strategic coach. GT was unlucky with injury and still took us to prelims. He handed over a battle hardened experienced side with a heap of good kids all peaking.

GT was old school in a less refined era. You could literally still buy more ammo and win a shoot out in those days. GT era Saints were the best Saints side to watch in my time. It was pure footy with backs playing on forwards and your star forwards winning a shoot out getting you wins.
 
It is widely recognised that GT was not a great tactical coach but was very good at inspiring the players. putting that aside, I still believe that if GT hadn't let his ego get in the way of his coaching by trying to micromanage the club we would have at least two additional flags today. What he left as a legacy was no additional flags, a broken relationship with Tasmania, that the Hawks exploited to win three flags, and allowing the next administration an opportunity to take over bringing the the dark days of a move away from Moorabin and the installation of the worst recruitment team in living memory. Greatness is built on legacy, and I am not convinced that GT can be proud of what he left behind after the time when he was effectively in control of thye club.


Tasmania didn't win any games for the Hawks but cashed them up. The Hawks also timed it well to coincide with the expansion sides coming in and making them hard to catch up to. We were in the Brisbane dominance era but in any other time we probably would have had a few premierships with that list.
 
Dec 4, 2000
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As oppsed to all the premierships we won with strategic coach. GT was unlucky with injury and still took us to prelims. He handed over a battle hardened experienced side with a heap of good kids all peaking.

GT was old school in a less refined era. You could literally still buy more ammo and win a shoot out in those days. GT era Saints were the best Saints side to watch in my time. It was pure footy with backs playing on forwards and your star forwards winning a shoot out getting you wins.
Not unlucky with injury, incompetence on his part and he 'training services'. Took Lyon a full two preseasons to put some 'meat and potatoes' as he put it, aka basic conditioning into the list. Injury plagued in 07, started to come good in 08, top 4, hit their straps in 09, five years of premiership window stuffed by Thomas and his pitiful conditioning of the players.
 
Not unlucky with injury, incompetence on his part and he 'training services'. Took Lyon a full two preseasons to put some 'meat and potatoes' as he put it, aka basic conditioning into the list. Injury plagued in 07, started to come good in 08, top 4, hit their straps in 09, five years of premiership window stuffed by Thomas and his pitiful conditioning of the players.


And you know this how? Or is it opinion?
 
2005-2009 saw radical changes in how sides line up, Hell our club was at the forefront of tactics back then.

Guns blazing attacking footy died, But pressing from the front and using defence as an attacking option became in vouge.


I think it was Roos that really introduced the press game to AFL and Lyon brought it in at the Saints. What's funny is that Lyon got hammered for boring low scoring footy back then but in comparison to today it was high scoring.
 
Aug 9, 2006
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I think it was Roos that really introduced the press game to AFL and Lyon brought it in at the Saints. What's funny is that Lyon got hammered for boring low scoring footy back then but in comparison to today it was high scoring.

The scoring thing is part myth, part circumstantial. Our average points against was very low in our heyday, but our scoring was actually pretty high.
  • We were insanely high scoring in 2009 - we averaged 97.4 points!
  • Then we averaged 119.5 points in the first two rounds of 2010
Then Roo did his hammy and we went defensive to survive, but we still scored pretty well. Hit the ton three times after Roo came back late in the season.
 

Yawkey way

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And you know this how? Or is it opinion?
Thomas was hated at head office and hammered by the press yet knowing that we’re expected to swallow every story whole without question, yep if it went wrong thomo did it. When ross Lyon was appointed a former teammate of his in the industry that I was friendly with told me you’ll love him and you’ll see what a real coach can do with that side.

I think both former players, both with coaching experience one at old Xavier and warrnambool running the show the other as an assistant coach at various clubs. Both with strong personalities and opinions on the game, Thomas almost won us to a flag and may have won us one while Lyon couldn’t have come closer.

It seems ridiculous to me that thomas can’t have an opinion or any input into the club without this constant negativity from some. I know this much I loved the saints under both of them and wish we had it so bad today.
 
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Dec 4, 2000
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And you know this how? Or is it opinion?
Multiple soft tissue injury under Thomas for years, Lyon coming out saying the whole list needed conditioning and still had multiple soft tissue injuries in 07. Only after Lyon's second pre season did the soft tissue injuries become manageable.

Not opinion but absolute irrefutable fact.
 
Dec 4, 2000
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Thomas was hated at head office and hammered by the press yet knowing that we’re expected to swallow every story whole without question, yep if it went wrong thomo did it. When ross Lyon was appointed a former teammate of his in the industry that I was friendly with told me you’ll love him and you’ll see what a real coach can do with that side.

I think both former players, both with coaching experience one at old Xavier and warrnambool running the show the other as an assistant coach at various clubs. Both with strong personalities and opinions on the game, Thomas almost won us to a flag and may have won us one while Lyon couldn’t have come closer.

It seems ridiculous to me that thomas can’t have an opinion or any input into the club without this constant negativity from some. I know this much I loved the saints under both of them and wish we had it so bad today.
So it was the AFL's fault that we had constant soft tissue injuries, ok.

And why can't Thomas be critisised? He wrecked our best ever list by incompetent conditioning, and never got us near a flag.
Sued the club for more money, yep great club man.
I suppose the Thomas cultists will block their ears to these truths though.
 

#gosaintas

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So it was the AFL's fault that we had constant soft tissue injuries, ok.

And why can't Thomas be critisised? He wrecked our best ever list by incompetent conditioning, and never got us near a flag.
Sued the club for more money, yep great club man.
I suppose the Thomas cultists will block their ears to these truths though.
I can't stand Thomas but in spite of his shitness he did get us near a flag. I was at the Adelaide oval that night, not on the ground when the 100th was kicked, but that smother in the goal square cost us a premiership I reckon. The smother, the bounce and the toe poke. Only StKilda.
 

Yawkey way

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May 8, 2017
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So it was the AFL's fault that we had constant soft tissue injuries, ok.

And why can't Thomas be critisised? He wrecked our best ever list by incompetent conditioning, and never got us near a flag.
Sued the club for more money, yep great club man.
I suppose the Thomas cultists will block their ears to these truths though.
Does ratten run the fitness and conditioning, of course he doesn’t but of course that would be all thomas. We were close enough but you‘re right he didn’t win a flag. He sued after being dispatched by his good mate the druggie and his board. Did he win, was he entitled to it, do you leave money you’re owed on the table, if not why should he.

Bye the way how was our injury list last year, bloody ratten what a s**t show.
 
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Multiple soft tissue injury under Thomas for years, Lyon coming out saying the whole list needed conditioning and still had multiple soft tissue injuries in 07. Only after Lyon's second pre season did the soft tissue injuries become manageable.

Not opinion but absolute irrefutable fact.


Ross sacked guys with long term injury histories. Thommo got sports scientists in before it was the fashion but couldn't get on top of them, Matt Rendall said that it took 2 years for the conditioning staff to get the Saints up to AFL level fitness because they couldn't push them any harder without breaking them down when Thommo took over.
 
Sep 14, 2008
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Does ratten run the fitness and conditioning, of course he doesn’t but of course that would be all thomas. We were close enough but your right he didn’t win a flag. He sued after being dispatched by his good mate the druggie and his board. Did he win, was he entitled to it, do you leave money you’re owed on the table, if not why should he.

Bye the way how was our injury list last year, bloody ratten what a sh*t show.

GT ran the whole footy department.

Rats doesn't
 
Sep 14, 2008
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Ross sacked guys with long term injury histories. Thommo got sports scientists in before it was the fashion but couldn't get on top of them, Matt Rendall said that it took 2 years for the conditioning staff to get the Saints up to AFL level fitness because they couldn't push them any harder without breaking them down when Thommo took over.

Think you're getting your wires crossed. It was Lyon who brought Misson in & changed the whole S&C/medical department.
 
May 10, 2013
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GT brought to the club a bit of the old school style things to the football club, not exactly pie nights, but I believe he used to have the team around to his place once a week for dinner. IMO this helped the players to bond as mates & it showed on the field as they trusted & played for each other. Unfortunately for him the club was run more professionally than old style, hence he couldn’t be coach or CEO, treasurer & orange boy all at the same time.
 
May 29, 2013
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I can't stand Thomas but in spite of his shitness he did get us near a flag. I was at the Adelaide oval that night, not on the ground when the 100th was kicked, but that smother in the goal square cost us a premiership I reckon. The smother, the bounce and the toe poke. Only StKilda.

Yet you are forgetting the team we would have played in the 2004 GF (Brisbane) smacked us by 80pts in the QF and 8 goals in one of the last H&A rounds

2005 season was a bigger tragedy
 

Teflon

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GT actually built his own list. Before him we had made the 97 grand final only to start to free fall. He managed to build a list that Lyon inherited and wasn't added to in any significant way once he left. Once GTs generation of stars went we had nothing coming up underneath and so find ourselves where we are with a list made out of the bins of other sides.

One might argue Tim Watson built the list and Riewoldt fell in our lap
Still shoulda added Judd but GT knew better... anyhoo history has a funny way of embellishments
 

Teflon

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Not unlucky with injury, incompetence on his part and he 'training services'. Took Lyon a full two preseasons to put some 'meat and potatoes' as he put it, aka basic conditioning into the list. Injury plagued in 07, started to come good in 08, top 4, hit their straps in 09, five years of premiership window stuffed by Thomas and his pitiful conditioning of the players.
Spot on this “Thomas just unlucky” is nonsense
Spend the $ on training services to remove soft tissue injury challenges as opposed to movie nights at Grants and we might’ve been closer to that flag..
 
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