Player Watch Jordan Dawson - Our New Captain!

[1970crow]

you think they haven’t realised how bad they already look? I reckon they’ve finally woken up to how few people agree with them

Still, it's a ballsy lie to throw in their face. Perhaps their restraint is not responding by saying they weren't interested in signing him for 2 years on huge overs and then losing him to free agency and they were working on a long term offer at the time.

 

[Crow till I die]

exactly

look at how support for Manchester City has changed, since the money and then the players started flooding in

Newcastle United are in the market for players now the Saudis have taken over.

the first thing clubs with money do is upgrade the players knowing it leads to more fans, merchandise, sponsorship and TV share

I lived in Heaton in the city of Newcastle some years back and I can tell you that St James park was the hardest ground in the country to get tickets into as they are always extremely well supported. Nearly every second person in a pub and plenty in the high street, Newmarket area etc wears a Newcastle United top. They have always been one of the most passionate supporter bases of the lot - lower socioeconomic area. Geordies are fantastic people and I am very happy for them from a footballing perspective that the Mike Ashley days are done and they have owners that really will invest in the squad and wider club

 

[Murray2503]

I lived in Heaton in the city of Newcastle some years back and I can tell you that St James park was the hardest ground in the country to get tickets into as they are always extremely well supported. Nearly every second person in a pub and plenty in the high street, Newmarket area etc wears a Newcastle United top. They have always been one of the most passionate supporter bases of the lot - lower socioeconomic area. Geordies are fantastic people and I am very happy for them from a footballing perspective that the Mike Ashley days are done and they have owners that really will invest in the squad and wider club

Agree. My old man's Newcastle business associate spent inordinate amounts at Newcastle football club to have prime corporate seats and use of the club dining room. The old man told me the place was rocking when Shearer and the boys were challenging.

 

[Crow till I die]

Agree. My old man's Newcastle business associate spent inordinate amounts at Newcastle football club to have prime corporate seats and use of the club dining room. The old man told me the place was rocking when Shearer and the boys were challenging.

The sign of clubs that are well supported is what is the support like when they are playing poorly. A while back Newcastle were in the Championship but were still filling St James park week in week out. It was like the mighty Glasgow Rangers - they went into administration and got dropped to the 4th tier of Scottish football. They played sides like queens park, abroath etc that would be lucky to get 1000 supporters. To make a point, Rangers fans turned out in their droves to support these clubs when Rangers played them (but not those clubs that voted to turf rangers down the divisions!!). But I remember one game where 50K supporters turned up for a 4th div match - unbelievable

check out the home attendance figures for Newcastle in their 2016/2017 championship season where they were champions and got promoted

2016-2017 Newcastle United Stats, Championship | FBref.com

Check out Newcastle United's latest scores, goals, shooting, passing, defense, possession stats and more for the 2016-2017 Championship.

fbref.com

 

[GameofSloanes]

City's support hasnt changed that much. Were averaging nearly 30k in third tier. Often dont get anywhere near selling out 50k stadium now. Still probably behind United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, Newcastle in fan support as they always were. Maybe risen above Everton but that's about it. Chelsea similar.

Small clubs with money

 

[Crow till I die]

Small clubs with money

we call them johhny come lately's

 

[BRL121]

Another derailed thread! Let's leave this one for the Messiah Dawson.
@Deaneus : sick them.

 

[GrommoT]

Not like there's that much to talk about currently.

 

[flashcrow]

 

[Sanders]

City's support hasnt changed that much. Were averaging nearly 30k in third tier. Often dont get anywhere near selling out 50k stadium now. Still probably behind United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, Newcastle in fan support as they always were. Maybe risen above Everton but that's about it. Chelsea similar.

their crowds are significant up
Sponsorship is massively up so is merchandising etc

by any measure their support is through the roof

 

[Slippery Pete]

Richmond have the ultimate winning culture, everyone buys in.

yet their culture ebbs and flows on Dusty. They go as he goes.

before his rise they were forever ninthmond.

Shinboner spirit never the same since Carey boffed Mrs Stevens

equalisation exists because some clubs can’t rise on their own

File under words not heard since high school & making a welcome return

 

[Redleg Crow]

chain points per intercept mark… yeah I use that stat all the time, mostly to work out how much bullshit there is

You know you can just admit you don't understand something

 

[Redleg Crow]

I wonder where Seedsman is on this?

I'm guessing he doesn't get many chain points because he runs and kicks it too far to get involved in a chain of possessions!

I think the lack of intercept marks is the thing against Seeds

 

[Redleg Crow]

Agree, but wtf is a ‘chain point’?

Down the bottom of the graph

"Chain points is points scored from chains of possession beginning with the intercept mark."

So it in effect measures how many of your intercept marks end up with your side keeping possession and scoring. It suggests Dawson takes intercept marks in dangerous positions rather than say full-back, and he then is able to use the ball well such that it leads to scores (rather than say bombing it from half back, which the graph suggests Brodie Smith might be guilty of doing)

 

[Vader]

I think the lack of intercept marks is the thing against Seeds

Or too many intercept marks.

Making it "per intercept mark" penalises players who have multiple intercepts.

It really is the bullshit statistic to end all bullshit statistics.

 

[Vader]

Down the bottom of the graph

"Chain points is points scored from chains of possession beginning with the intercept mark."

So it in effect measures how many of your intercept marks end up with your side keeping possession and scoring. It suggests Dawson takes intercept marks in dangerous positions rather than say full-back, and he then is able to use the ball well such that it leads to scores (rather than say bombing it from half back, which the graph suggests Brodie Smith might be guilty of doing)

No. It's saying that when he makes an intercept, there's a comparatively high chance of a score resulting.

Of course, players like Doedee make a lot more intercepts, which counts against them.

It is quite possibly the dumbest statistic ever created.

 

[Redleg Crow]

Or too many intercept marks.

Making it "per intercept mark" penalises players who have multiple intercepts.

It really is the bullshit statistic to end all bullshit statistics.

It isn't. The reason Seeds is not there is because he has not taken more than 1 intercept mark a game. But oh well, plenty of people still think kicks and handballs is all you need to look at. Each to their own.

 

[Redleg Crow]

No. It's saying that when he makes an intercept, there's a comparatively high chance of a score resulting.

Of course, players like Doedee make a lot more intercepts, which counts against them.

It is quite possibly the dumbest statistic ever created.

It doesn't count against Doedee any more than scoring assists counts against defenders. It is not trying to measure who takes the most intercept marks, but measuring who takes the most intercept marks at positions where they can do damage (yeah it's measuring two things. Intercept marks in defence are not going to lead to many scores, but those in the midfield will - but not many midfielders can do that - Dawson can - better than most.

 

[Sanders]

I’m starting to understand why Sydney were so pissed about only getting Melbourne’s first.

they’re wrong. But the logic is starting to make more sense

they thought uncontracted players like Tim Kelly

11

Tim Kelly

Age

29

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.6

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

10.1

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

4.0

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

19.9

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

7.6

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

4.7

5star

CL

3.6

4star

D

21.6

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

11.2

5star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

3.8

5star

and Jeremy Cameron

5

Jeremy Cameron

Age

31

Ht

196cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.6

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

G

2.0

5star

had set a new standard, reset market value for uncontracted players.

at the respective time both teams were reasonably successful and were therefore out of reach for a PSD manoeuvre

so on that basis, they have assumed that this is the new market value for uncontracted players and the only reason they aren’t getting some of the new super premium trade value is our lowly ladder position

I think there’s 2 problems with this:
1. This is what the PSD is for, and our ability to use it legitimately forms part of Dawson’s value

2: that the Tim Kelly

11

Tim Kelly

Age

29

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.6

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

10.1

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

4.0

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

19.9

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

7.6

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

4.7

5star

CL

3.6

4star

D

21.6

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

11.2

5star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

3.8

5star

& Jeremy Cameron

5

Jeremy Cameron

Age

31

Ht

196cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.6

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

G

2.0

5star

trades were for a much higher calibre player, and were unique in their circumstances

but having seen Kelly go for 14, 24, 37 & a future first, I can see why their eyes must have lit up

problem is they misread the room and refuse to accept their misreading of the marketplace is down to their wide eyed greed, rather than a structural break down of the system

 

[Deaneus!]

You know you can just admit you don't understand something

Amazingly, I can, I have no idea what it is

i‘ve been watching smurfball for 40 years and never heard of it.

i‘m also not interested in finding out what it is, because I suspect it’s another thing dreamed up by the brains trust that keeps Luke Darcy ”informed”

all well done Sanders, I knew you’d find a bandwagon to jump on

 

[Vader]

It doesn't count against Doedee any more than scoring assists counts against defenders. It is not trying to measure who takes the most intercept marks, but measuring who takes the most intercept marks at positions where they can do damage (yeah it's measuring two things. Intercept marks in defence are not going to lead to many scores, but those in the midfield will - but not many midfielders can do that - Dawson can - better than most.

It's simply not a meaningful stat, any way you care to examine it. It's the most bullshit of all bullshit stats ever created.

People were critical of the AFL's "connector" stat, which appeared specifically engineered to make Tom Lynch look good, but which in reality was garbage. This is connector garbage taken to the 20th power.

 

[CutAboveTheRest]

I’m starting to understand why St Kilda were so pissed about only getting Melbourne’s first.

they’re wrong. But the logic is starting to make more sense

they thought uncontracted players like Tim Kelly and Jeremy Cameron had set a new standard, reset market value for uncontracted players.

at the respective time both teams were reasonably successful and were therefore out of reach for a PSD manoeuvre

so on that basis, they have assumed that this is the new market value for uncontracted players and the only reason they aren’t getting some of the new super premium trade value is our lowly ladder position

I think there’s 2 problems with this:
1. This is what the PSD is for, and our ability to use it legitimately forms part of Dawson’s value

2: that the Tim Kelly & Jeremy Cameron trades were for a much higher calibre player, and were unique in their circumstances

but having seen Kelly go for 14, 24, 37 & a future first, I can see why their eyes must have lit up

problem is they misread the room and refuse to accept their misreading of the marketplace is down to their wide eyed greed, rather than a structural break down of the system

Sydney?

 

[MRB37]

I’m starting to understand why St Kilda were so pissed about only getting Melbourne’s first.

they’re wrong. But the logic is starting to make more sense

they thought uncontracted players like Tim Kelly and Jeremy Cameron had set a new standard, reset market value for uncontracted players.

at the respective time both teams were reasonably successful and were therefore out of reach for a PSD manoeuvre

so on that basis, they have assumed that this is the new market value for uncontracted players and the only reason they aren’t getting some of the new super premium trade value is our lowly ladder position

I think there’s 2 problems with this:
1. This is what the PSD is for, and our ability to use it legitimately forms part of Dawson’s value

2: that the Tim Kelly & Jeremy Cameron trades were for a much higher calibre player, and were unique in their circumstances

but having seen Kelly go for 14, 24, 37 & a future first, I can see why their eyes must have lit up

problem is they misread the room and refuse to accept their misreading of the marketplace is down to their wide eyed greed, rather than a structural break down of the system

Tim Kelly was coming off a season he received 25 votes in the Brownlow medal, Jeremy Cameron is a 2-time All Australian and Coleman Medal winner, to think Dawson is worth as much as them just because he's the best available is silly.

On the flipside, we said "Dawson is similar to Ed Langdon, both in age, style and statistically". Demons paid out 22, 79 and a future second-round selection and got 26 and a future 4th rounder back. So basically cost it cost Melbourne a slight downgrade and a 2nd round pick to get Langdon, who is rated at a similar level to Dawson, so Sydney should be pretty happy with getting a 1st rounder in return for him, let alone complaining they should have gotten pick 4 if we were trading fairly.

 

[Sanders]

all well done Sanders, I knew you’d find a bandwagon to jump on

sorry, what?

 

[Sanders]

Sydney?

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