List Mgmt. Welcome Liam Duggan Pick 11 2014 Draft

[tesseract]

I don't think anyone here has said talent doesn't matter, those are entirely your words. All that's been said is that we shouldn't just throw in the towel and treat every game as practice for whoever is youngest in our squad.

I didn't state that Tom Kerrigan said talent doesn't matter, but he did imply that it doesn't mean as much as his listed reasons.

 

[tesseract]

I think your view is a little bit too simplistic. Jack Watts was one of about a dozen top draft picks by Melbourne that failed. They could not possibly have got them all wrong. The reality was that they slaughtered their kids.

Explain how my view is simplistic.

"The reality was that they slaughtered their kids" is passing off your simplistic opinion as though it be fact.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Heeney is a poor mans Duggan.


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[Tom Kerrigan]

I didn't state that Tom Kerrigan said talent doesn't matter, but he did imply that it doesn't mean as much as his listed reasons.

I think your view is a little bit too simplistic. Jack Watts was one of about a dozen top draft picks by Melbourne that failed. They could not possibly have got them all wrong. The reality was that they slaughtered their kids.

I entirely think talent matters. I was more saying that throwing in the towel and playing young players that aren't ready would be more of a detriment to the development of the young guys we already have and to the side's mentality then the 'extra talent' we'd get out of placing 2 or 3 picks higher in the draft - talent needs to be developed as well as simply discovered, and we'll get more development through aiming to win matches and playing players who deserve it.
Johnno22's point was exactly what I meant - there is no denying some of those Melbourne players had the talent of Impey, Neade, Wines but the culture (which Roos was specifically brought in to change) ruined them.
That being said, if the older players are playing shit like they did against Freo today, bring in the younger ones. Colledge is an example of someone who has been earning his spot, so I'd say play him next week - because he deserves it, and it will be positive not detrimental for his development. The 'throw in the towel for season 2015' attitude though is something I can't agree with.

 

[tesseract]

I entirely think talent matters. I was more saying that throwing in the towel and playing young players that aren't ready would be more of a detriment to the development of the young guys we already have and to the side's mentality then the 'extra talent' we'd get out of placing 2 or 3 picks higher in the draft - talent needs to be developed as well as simply discovered, and we'll get more development through aiming to win matches and playing players who deserve it.
Johnno22's point was exactly what I meant - there is no denying some of those Melbourne players had the talent of Impey, Neade, Wines but the culture (which Roos was specifically brought in to change) ruined them.
That being said, if the older players are playing shit like they did against Freo today, bring in the younger ones. Colledge is an example of someone who has been earning his spot, so I'd say play him next week - because he deserves it, and it will be positive not detrimental for his development. The 'throw in the towel for season 2015' attitude though is something I can't agree with.

As I previously stated: "I didn't state that Tom Kerrigan said talent doesn't matter".

What exactly do you mean by throwing in the towel? Throwing in the towel and player development aren't mutually exclusive.

I disagree that the "side's mentality" is more important than extra talent, for the side's mentality will improve when that extra talent comes to the fore and starts winning the club some games. The same applies to winning culture. Did Port's mentality suffer because they spent some years down the tail end of the ladder.? No. So such a concern is unnecessary and unwarranted. Each new season is a fresh start. I don't believe there's carry over form from season to season. 5-6 months is just too long a period for such to take place.
Btw, this isn't about 2-3 spots in the draft, it should be about finishing bottom 4 and bottoming out properly - no half arsed measures. If you want to select from the best, you need the currency. If WC want Harley Bennell, Chad Wingard and Jarrod Picket type talents, WC aren't going to get them finishing mid-table.

The players already play to win. The players don't tank, for football is their livelihood and they want to keep their job and increase their level of pay. That's a reason why talk of aiming to win or else it affects the players development is nonsense. The coaching staff can manipulate so a loss transpires, but the players won't.

Melbourne's players aren't that good, so laying Melbourne's issues solely at the feet of their culture is a convenient to your argument cop-out. Melbourne stunk because they lacked talent through poor drafting. Port were down but came good because while they were down they nailed their draft picks. Talent > Culture. Culture is changed by talent doing as talent does - winning. Winning improves culture. The process starts by acquiring talent, not the other way around.

 

[LordHaart]

I'll put it this way. We were never going to win tonight because we had less talent than Freo. However if we weren't so mentally feeble we might have been able to at least make it a more even contest throughout four quarters instead of getting reamed in the first half and then getting a few low-effort scores at the end to make things look a tiny bit more OK only because Freo basically let us.

In other words, talent is required but culture and experience (particularly experience in hard-won games) are a modifier on top of that talent that can either inflate or reduce its potency.

FWIW, after tonight's insipid performance I'd be thrilled if we dropped all of Masten, McGinnity, Butler, Rosa, Lycett and perhaps a couple more in favor of just about anybody. But that's more because I think that just about anybody would contribute more than those have. If we don't really have a replacement for one of those then I think they stay because I'd rather at least play a side that has a chance of winning than play a bunch of kids who feel like they don't have a chance because they're being brought in because of the failings of others rather than their own merits. And obviously it's not a binary thing, we can make a variable number of changes each week to best suite that balance.

 

[eaglespremiers]

 

[Johnno22]

Liam Duggan to AFL Draftee has been a story widely anticipated in Victoria for a number of years and he might not
be fully appreciated for who he can become outside of the Eastern States but rest assured every AFL club has had him on their radar for a long time.

He has captained all his junior sides and has been a winner wherever he's played, won sporting scholarships , was invited into the AIS/AFL Academy and was awarded the Ben Mitchell Medal , the academy's highest individual honour, voted on by his peers as the player that embodies team values, such as courage, leadership and trust on and off the field.

His coach at Bacchus Marsh, Dougie Hawkins said in Liam there are no negatives and he reminds him of Robbie Flower with outstanding balance, poise and skill, ticking all the boxes. He kicks both sides, has a great vertical leap , exceptionally strong overhead and has the tank of a marathon man.

AFL.Com said Duggan is the player you want with the ball in his hand if you need someone to control a situation. He'll pick the right time to slow things down but also have the nous to be ready to take the game on often dragging his team mates over the line in tight games. He is a game changer who influences results much like Hodge and Joel Selwood.

He left boot has been described as a lethal weapon with which he could shoot the wings off a fly such is his accuracy.

It was suggested that most recruiters thought of Duggan as the 2014 draftee most likely to succeed with no real weaknesses and absolutely no risk, a player every club would love to have.

Bump

 

[SpaceClef]

also have the nous to be ready to take the game on often dragging his team mates over the line in tight games.

god knows we need someone like this

 

[Johnno22]

No. He has everything it takes to have a Hodge/Joel Selwood type of influence on the team.

I suggest you get a piece of paper and wright down your current thoughts on Duggan, put the piece of paper in your Bible ,take it out in 10 years, read it and pray for forgiveness.

Some here are not aware of just how special a player he will be.

BUMP
Made this comment in November last year.
Any body take up my suggestion with the note?

 

[Here2tellyouwhy]

BUMP
Made this comment in November last year.
Any body take up my suggestion with the note?

Sorry I only started praying in March after EMac and Brown went down.

 

[Forward Press]

I think I posted in this thread or somewhere similar that he was the next Dal Santo.

Well, unlike Dal Santo he has a premiership medal.

Underrated contributor this year, and he is still just 21 with 70 games already under his belt. Played 24 of 25 in a flag side.

Future jet.

 

[Candiru]

I think I posted in this thread or somewhere similar that he was the next Dal Santo.

Well, unlike Dal Santo he has a premiership medal.

Underrated contributor this year, and he is still just 21 with 70 games already under his belt. Played 24 of 25 in a flag side.

Future jet.

To the midfield.

 

[avishka5]

I think I posted in this thread or somewhere similar that he was the next Dal Santo.

Well, unlike Dal Santo he has a premiership medal.

Underrated contributor this year, and he is still just 21 with 70 games already under his belt. Played 24 of 25 in a flag side.

Future jet.

Mate he's more Beau Waters than anything, goes in hard and never takes a backward step. backed into a contest and took a big mark with Mason Cox running towards him and then destroys Mayne going for a lose ball. In the next 2 years he'll step up and become that accumulating sort of flanker and potentially become an AA.

 

[mitchzz]

I'm not sure he ever becomes a midfielder or more than a 20+ possession guy but one thing's for sure, he's bloody solid. Rarely loses a contest and never takes a backward step.

 

[FKASC]

I think I posted in this thread or somewhere similar that he was the next Dal Santo.

Well, unlike Dal Santo he has a premiership medal.

Underrated contributor this year, and he is still just 21 with 70 games already under his belt. Played 24 of 25 in a flag side.

Future jet.

Did he only miss one game this year??

Thought he missed more.

Love how tough he is! Just need him to iron out his decision making and skill execution when rebounding from 50 and he’ll be a bloody gun.

 

[FKASC]

 

[ghostbat12]

...less talent than Freo.

RED.CARD.

 

[Goldfish]

Why was that a free kick? Textbook...

 

[FKASC]

Why was that a free kick? Textbook...

Noise of affirmation