Toast Welcome pick #9 Chayce Jones!!

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That is my gut feel too. I have already said that if you are both right, then he shouldn't be in the team this year. What if your wrong though? That is why I have bothered to argue this point. Its not that I don't see the decline. But if he manages to get back consistent form at near his best level, do you agree that he will be picked ahead of Jones? And if he does, is that such a bad thing? (assuming that he is playing quality football here).
Even if Douglas gets back to his best, the answer is so what? We're at the point the structural damage posed by playing someone like Douglas who is looking evidently cooked, and slow in a position that requires defence far outweighs the reward of him being able to get back to his best (should a miracle occur).

Especially when you factor that these things tend to be one month of good football and then they really implode.
 
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Shaz2012

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So you don't want Douglas picked on current form
That is not what I said. JLT form doesnt count for much at all. If that is his current level as a 32 year old, then I dont want him picked. But I am not writing him off based on JLT.

you do want him to be picked so we can figure out he is cooked at AFL level.
I am not saying that either. If Pyke has him in his best 22, what is the point of playing him in the SANFL? Over the course of the next 22 games we have to put together a brand of footy that can win a flag. If Dougy is part of that, lets see how it looks. If Dougy isn't part of that, make the call and lets see how it looks with his replacement.
 

jumboprince

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The cliff can come quick.

He's 32 and he's not a superstar like Burgoyne or Mitchell who can carry game changing form.
No doubt the cliff can come quick but instead of this thread being about how good Chayce will be it has become a thread filled with almost Marty like fervour to debate why a senior player is keeping him out of the side, given they aren't even fighting for the same position and it actually hasn't happened. It's the same circular arguments that goes nowhere.

"Senior player keeping junior player out"

"Hang on, they don't even play the same position"

"Yeah but it's like our club not to retire senior players"

Its just ******* whiny wank and it has been that way for ten god damned pages.

He hasn't kept him out of the side, he won't keep him out of the side and when players like Macadam, Greenwood, Gooch and Davis are actually pushing for selection, then Douglas will be out unless he finds form whilst they are getting up to speed. Douglas is in the side at present because the next cab off the rank who is fit is Poholke and Douglas can be out of form and still be a better option than Dylan.

There is way, way too much Henny Pennying going on in this forum
 

John Who

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The point is Douglas can't get back to that form. He's been in a steady decline the last two seasons and he's now cooked.

It's not a matter of "if he just gets back to that form". In 2017 Thommo was never going to be able to get back to his best and it's the same with Douglas now
A few were saying exactly the same with Betts prior to the JLT games. After 2 JLT games, there has been more silence regarding Betts.
Agreed Dougy isn’t likely to get back to his best, but like Betts, no reason why Dougy can’t regain some form after last season’s horror show.

If you’re going on age, then Betts is an older specimen and Gary Ablett Jr is even older at 34. Can’t just call Dougy an automatic discard just yet.
 

Rory Walkerfield

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I feel like I'm missing something with Douglas. He's just not that bad a player as some are suggesting here. There are several I'd take out of the side before him.
People have just moved onto him. Douggie is a solid B grade AFL player. Will never be the star but is reliable and generally does good things (in between slipping over).
 

King Elvis

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Even if Douglas gets back to his best, the answer is so what? We're at the point the structural damage posed by playing someone like Douglas who is looking evidently cooked, and slow in a position that requires defence far outweighs the reward of him being able to get back to his best (should a miracle occur).

Especially when you factor that these things tend to be one month of good football and then they really implode.
Do what we did a couple of years ago; carrying underperforming senior players through the season, and then when they run out of steam and are even worse, or get hit with injuries, we don't have the balls to drop them because we haven't exposed the younger guys to enough games, and lacked the confidence and courage to select them..
 

John Who

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No doubt the cliff can come quick but instead of this thread being about how good Chayce will be it has become a thread filled with almost Marty like fervour to debate why a senior player is keeping him out of the side, given they aren't even fighting for the same position and it actually hasn't happened. It's the same circular arguments that goes nowhere.

"Senior player keeping junior player out"

"Hang on, they don't even play the same position"

"Yeah but it's like our club not to retire senior players"

Its just ******* whiny wank and it has been that way for ten god damned pages.

He hasn't kept him out of the side, he won't keep him out of the side and when players like Macadam, Greenwood, Gooch and Davis are actually pushing for selection, then Douglas will be out unless he finds form whilst they are getting up to speed. Douglas is in the side at present because the next cab off the rank who is fit is Poholke and Douglas can be out of form and still be a better option than Dylan.

There is way, way too much Henny Pennying going on in this forum
Well there isn’t much to talk about when we’re waiting for the season to officially start without a preseason camp and no major injuries for a typical melt to start!
 

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Scorpus

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douglas.png


This is Richard Douglas' form since the start of 2017, up until he was injured in Round 16. A consecutive 39 games played. He is trending down for disposals even though in 2018 he played a significant midfield role with several key players out injured

His early 2017 form indicated he was good for around 23 touches a game. Towards the end of 2018 that had regressed to a 17 touch player

Douglas averages 18.4 touches over his career with a peak during his good years at 21-22 touches per match
 
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70lethal

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The best coach going around made tough calls on much more decorated players than any crow at the moment.

He stated the issue with the older guys in the list was the temptation to play them because of past performances even though you know deep down they will never get back to that level.

Very few are able to turn the clock back unless they have suffered from a banged up body and fund a way to get it fixed.

I don't believe Douglas is in that category.

For balance of side we need more elite 2 way runners more than grunt mids.

Jones tackle pressure will force turnovers and forward half turnovers are gold.
 

1970crow

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Yep. Writing is on the wall. But rightly or wrongly they’ll give him a chance and I wouldn’t bet against him. My guess is he will start the season reasonably well with one or two very good performances. Some, not me, will come on bf laying into those who wrote him off. But sometime after the bye he will drop off again, eventually lose his spot and then the “I told you so,s” will get their revenge :)

My guess anyway.
If he is on his way down the cliff he’ll be pretty poor in the games where the intensity is up and it’ll look they can’t keep carrying him. Then will come a game against the Suns or some other shitful side and he’ll get 25 touches and a couple of goals. That’ll lock him in for another few games where he’s not up to it and then another outlier will come along. All of a sudden we’re at round 15 and heading towards finals where experience and continuity become the 2 most critical factors to success. Same goes for Sauce if his output drops off due to carrying an injury.

Having said that, Dougie got his hands on it early against GWS, but was abysmal with it. If that’s the sample size we’re using then Tex, Gibbs and Harto can head back to the ammos because they were either worse or equally as poor. But the signs aren’t great for Dougie, but it’s still likely to play every game even if we have players who will give us better outcomes.
 

1970crow

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Not when the wet day was seeing everyone slipping and sliding like a kid’s playground.

Anyway, I didn’t use the word ruthless. Why would we want to be ruthless to a person who has been a warrior with us for over 10 years? Let’s stop discussing about Thommo and ruthlessness, as this is a moot point.
It wasn’t even wet, you’re making up rubbish to support a ridiculous belief. We kicked 16.8 to 5.15, disposal efficiencies were excellent, marks were plentiful, you could describe conditions as a bit slippery, but wet it wasn’t.
 

1970crow

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The point is Douglas can't get back to that form. He's been in a steady decline the last two seasons and he's now cooked.

It's not a matter of "if he just gets back to that form". In 2017 Thommo was never going to be able to get back to his best and it's the same with Douglas now
I don’t think Dougie’s body has completely failed him like Thommo’s did. But then, Dougie was probably only half the player, so it’s possibly failing enough to give us the same result.
 

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If he is on his way down the cliff he’ll be pretty poor in the games where the intensity is up and it’ll look they can’t keep carrying him. Then will come a game against the Suns or some other shitful side and he’ll get 25 touches and a couple of goals. That’ll lock him in for another few games where he’s not up to it and then another outlier will come along. All of a sudden we’re at round 15 and heading towards finals where experience and continuity become the 2 most critical factors to success. Same goes for Sauce if his output drops off due to carrying an injury.

Having said that, Dougie got his hands on it early against GWS, but was abysmal with it. If that’s the sample size we’re using then Tex, Gibbs and Harto can head back to the ammos because they were either worse or equally as poor. But the signs aren’t great for Dougie, but it’s still likely to play every game even if we have players who will give us better outcomes.
Dougy won't play more than 10 games in the AFL this year.

Sauce..... I was hopefully but ROB hasn't put forward his case super well...... yet.
 

John Who

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It wasn’t even wet, you’re making up rubbish to support a ridiculous belief. We kicked 16.8 to 5.15, disposal efficiencies were excellent, marks were plentiful, you could describe conditions as a bit slippery, but wet it wasn’t.
How about sticking to the content of conversation. EC said the club hasn’t been ruthless enough over X amount of years. I pointed out Thommo as a sign the club was being “ruthless” as a counter-argument.

My main point (and this will be the last I make mention of) is that the club is focusing on the future and not just giving freebies to one of our veterans, despite Thommo regularly getting 30+ possessions in SANFL in 2017.
 

beartoo

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Just on this

A work mate was listening to music the other day, and as I was working nearby I hear the lyrics "... I keep falling down, like Michael Douglas..."

I almost spat out my own tongue hearing it but he didn't understand the reference at all
Douglas had a bad habit of slipping over some years ago. He no longer has this trait, yet it is Big Footy Lore that he still does. Get with the times.
 

Squiba

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Tbh I've only heard it through here, I assume started following footy closely well after he went through that phase.

Chill out
 

morris086

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Jones tackle pressure will force turnovers and forward half turnovers are gold.
We massively missed Charlies forward pressure last year, pace and tackling, playing Douglas just so he can give a chip out in the middle would almost be a gold pass. Jones, McHenry, Stengle or McAdam should be rotated through there.
 
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