Toast Welcome pick #9 Chayce Jones!!

SaltPeter

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How can you complain about being competitive and yet agree with gifting seasons to players who won’t play?

And we gave the him a contract so that comment about not showing loyalty doesn’t stack up.
I often wonder if when his form was waning later in the previous season, if he had've been dropped to the 2's for a few games (or a lot of games) whether he would've bothered going around again ..
 

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Sanders

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I dont think its a matter of talent or form, I think its a matter of role for Dougie. Talent wise he's a very solid contributor, knows the systems, fit, strong bodied, and has really good skills. Its just what position do you put him that doesn't have multiple guys that are either more suited or can have a similar output with a higher future ceiling?

I've said for months that Dougie has Jack of All Trade's himself out of a defined role in this team. With a fit list he's struggling to be best 22 because of the list we've built around him.

Was bound to happen considering our last 3-4 FA periods and drafts! We brought in a bunch of mids, running players, HFF types, and high end draftees who's only way into the side is by supplanting guys like Dougie (Milera, McPherson, Seed, Gooch, Poholke, Davis, Fog, Gibbs, Jones, Ned, Stengle, McAdam, and even Hamill).

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People keep saying he has lost his role or isn’t best 22.

Who knows, maybe that’s true, it will be one day

But on what evidence is that conclusion reached? None that i can see
 

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Sanders

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Lyons has consistently been highly rated by AFL player ratings.
Rightly so. He’s just been poached out of GC with the offer of a 3 year contract by Brisbane

He’s played nearly 100 games and by the time this contract is up, he’ll be on over 150 career games injury permitting

For a player no one seems to rate he’s quietly building a decent career
 

Betts are off

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People keep saying he has lost his role or isn’t best 22.

Who knows, maybe that’s true, it will be one day

But on what evidence is that conclusion reached? None that i can see
It’s just a prediction. But it’s hardly a difficult one.

I mean think about the roles available for mid sized guys of the midfield/utility build.

1) Inside mid: Is he better at that role then Gibbs, Sloane, Crouch, Crouch or Greenwood (or even CEY)?
2) Outside mid: Is he better at that role then Seed, Milera, Atkins (or annoyingly DMAC)? or have more upside then Jones, Or Ned?
3) Forward: Is he better then Lynch as High HF? Knight (or Murphy) at pressure HF? Betts (or Stengle) at small goal sneak forward? a better marking target then Greenwood? or have more upside then Fog, Gooch, Ned or Jones?
4) Defense: Is he a better running defender then Smith, Milera or Seed? A better QB style defender then Laird? a better intercept then Doedee? or a better shut down defender then Brown or Kelly?

It’s not a matter of evidence of him losing anything, it’s a matter of mass of numbers being fit and making his role (or lack there-of) pretty much superfluous.
 

Sanders

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It’s just a prediction. But it’s hardly a difficult one.

I mean think about the roles available for mid sized guys of the midfield/utility build.

1) Inside mid: Is he better at that role then Gibbs, Sloane, Crouch, Crouch or Greenwood (or even CEY)?
2) Outside mid: Is he better at that role then Seed, Milera, Atkins (or annoyingly DMAC)? or have more upside then Jones, Or Ned?
3) Forward: Is he better then Lynch as High HF? Knight (or Murphy) at pressure HF? Betts (or Stengle) at small goal sneak forward? a better marking target then Greenwood? or have more upside then Fog, Gooch, Ned or Jones?
4) Defense: Is he a better running defender then Smith, Milera or Seed? A better QB style defender then Laird? a better intercept then Doedee? or a better shut down defender then Brown or Kelly?

It’s not a matter of evidence of him losing anything, it’s a matter of mass of numbers being fit and making his role (or lack there-of) pretty much superfluous.
Sorry, and I get what you are saying but you can’t pass off your opinions in place of actual evidence

I mean let’s be honest, what are your questions worth if I just say: yes he is a better option than you have framed it

What then? You’re back needing to provide some evidence that your conclusion is a reasonable one
 

1970crow

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I often wonder if when his form was waning later in the previous season, if he had've been dropped to the 2's for a few games (or a lot of games) whether he would've bothered going around again ..
I expect he was told quite plainly that he’d be playing 2’s but I doubt he’d have believed it possible. They obviously didn’t want him going around again but also didn’t want to delist such a champ of the club. Hence the the very late re-contracting and sham coaching role. You’d think his role would have continued, so one party was pissed off about how 2017 went down. Probably both, he for playing almost all 2’s and us for him using the media to apply selection pressure as he had the previous year regarding re-contracting.
 

1970crow

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People keep saying he has lost his role or isn’t best 22.

Who knows, maybe that’s true, it will be one day

But on what evidence is that conclusion reached? None that i can see
Right now I think a few are tarring him with the Mackay/Reilly/VB brush. Guys that were barely worthy of selection during their final 3-4 years. Guys who were continually selected but failed to warrant top 20 b&f results in votes per game. That’s not Dougie. I think he looks like he’s at risk of being near the end, but I won’t be surprised if he’s got a pretty good season left in him. He made some serious blunders early last weekend, but he got his hands on it a fair bit, so if it was just a bit of rust, then he’s looking perfectly fine. Too early to call, just have to hope that if the reflexes have gone too far and his rig is struggling, we don’t do another Thommo. But there’s no doubt that Dougie’s body isn’t as banged up as Thommo’s was, Dougie doesn’t noticeabley grimace after slowly getting himself to his feet and accelerating into a light jog to the next contest. I think that is the other concern, that we’ve got a Thommo body failure scenario on our hands. But we don’t.
 

John Who

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I think Jones is a lock for round 1 with the second JLT performance and the injury to Seeds.
His start to his AFL career is very reminiscent to that of Fog. Both playing increasingly good JLT games, fans taking much notice and liking from these preseason matches, and injuries allowing them early AFL opportunities. In Fog’s case, Tex had the foot strain and it opened a spot for Fog.
 

Elite Crow

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Right now I think a few are tarring him with the Mackay/Reilly/VB brush. Guys that were barely worthy of selection during their final 3-4 years. Guys who were continually selected but failed to warrant top 20 b&f results in votes per game. That’s not Dougie. I think he looks like he’s at risk of being near the end, but I won’t be surprised if he’s got a pretty good season left in him. He made some serious blunders early last weekend, but he got his hands on it a fair bit, so if it was just a bit of rust, then he’s looking perfectly fine. Too early to call, just have to hope that if the reflexes have gone too far and his rig is struggling, we don’t do another Thommo. But there’s no doubt that Dougie’s body isn’t as banged up as Thommo’s was, Dougie doesn’t noticeabley grimace after slowly getting himself to his feet and accelerating into a light jog to the next contest. I think that is the other concern, that we’ve got a Thommo body failure scenario on our hands. But we don’t.
The issue is what role do you have him playing and is he suited to it?
 

Betts are off

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Sorry, and I get what you are saying but you can’t pass off your opinions in place of actual evidence

I mean let’s be honest, what are your questions worth if I just say: yes he is a better option than you have framed it

What then? You’re back needing to provide some evidence that your conclusion is a reasonable one
Well like I said it’s just a prediction based on my opinion, and my opinion is that it’s very hard to make an argument that he is better then those players at those roles, you could argue he is just as good as some and you wouldn’t be wrong, but in most those cases we are talking about young, high ceiling players.

I have nothing against him, he’s a good player who is very versatile. But I just listed 24 players with valuable and defined roles , and that doesn’t include Key Position Players or Rucks. IMO there simply isn’t enough room for guys that float from role to role in a side like that.

It may wel be purely observational, but that’s all the evidence I need
 
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Sanders

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Well like I said it’s just a prediction based on my opinion, and my opinion is that it’s very hard to make an argument that he is better then those players at those roles, you could argue he is just as good as some and you wouldn’t be wrong, but in most those cases we are talking about young, high ceiling players.

I have nothing against him, he’s a good player who is very versatile. But I just listed 24 players with valuable and defined roles , and that doesn’t include Key Position Players or Rucks. IMO there simply isn’t enough room for guys that float from role to role in a side like that.

It may wel be purely observational, but that’s all the evidence I need
I think that’s the problem, you’ve got a list not an argument ;)
 

1970crow

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The issue is what role do you have him playing and is he suited to it?
I've never really been one for specific roles among the many midfielder types that are spread across the field. Outside of Ruck, genuine KPDs and mabye a get-out contested marking KPF, most players are midfielders in nature. If we need a wingman because Seed is down and it's a choice between Dougie and Mackay, I choose Dougie to get a game and work the rest out later. Not many years ago, against Brisbane, I saw Lyons line up on a wing while Dmac was a centre square mid. I'd see Dougie rolling through a forward line, midfield and backline rotation all in the same game. As long as his form warrants it though. As long as we don't hear the words, "brings experience", "continuity", "flexibility" or "non-statistical" in the context of why he's getting a game, I'll be happy.
 

Crow till I die

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I think Jones is a lock for round 1 with the second JLT performance and the injury to Seeds.
His start to his AFL career is very reminiscent to that of Fog. Both playing increasingly good JLT games, fans taking much notice and liking from these preseason matches, and injuries allowing them early AFL opportunities. In Fog’s case, Tex had the foot strain and it opened a spot for Fog.
with seed out - if he already was not a lock for round 1, McKay will be a near certainty to come in for Seed - mark it down. Hope I am wrong and Jones gets his chance but somehow I don't think I will be
 
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