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apuchar

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I think all Eshed is saying is that it was strange to have a predominant philosophy of attack from defence and defend in attack. I sure most people agree that you need both in both positions but question our emphasis. Watching Dumans looseness during that vital play (amongst a myriad of other defensive disasters) at half back, spoke volumes, to me at least
Especially when you have also curbed your best running defender by giving him a relatively consuming defensive role while also giving the attacking roles to often the worst kick in the team. That's the way some of us see it. Wrongly or rightly. You are free to disagree. But I can see where Eshed was coming from anecdotally.
 

arsesmart

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I think all Eshed is saying is that it was strange to have a predominant philosophy of attack from defence and defend in attack. I sure most people agree that you need both in both positions but question our emphasis. Watching Dumans looseness during that vital play (amongst a myriad of other defensive disasters) at half back, spoke volumes, to me at least
Especially when you have also curbed your best running defender by giving him a relatively consuming defensive role while also giving the attacking roles to often the worst kick in the team. That's the way some of us see it. Wrongly or rightly. You are free to disagree. But I can see where Eshed was coming from anecdotally.
Not sure how much of that is perceived to be honest, although a forward-half press and setting-up attacks from defence ain't uncharted territory in the current state of the game.

Duman's a young developing player, you're not likely to get defensive perfection from less experienced types. I reckon there tends to be a lack of awareness for the role development has in execution of game play and people can tend to mistake development for something not working.
 

theGav56

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I didn't say anything about Buckley.
I have (had) a problem with Hill, Cerra, Blakely for example, being used in defence when to me they would be better utilised as attacking/creative players.
I'm hoping to see a style of football more focused on creativity and players showing flair, dare and imagination.

Aish is one I've kept an eye on since he was drafted and he hasn't reached anywhere near the heights predicted for him. I'm hoping he will be given a creative, attacking role in our team.
The point about Buckley is that all coaches value creativity and skill in their half backs. I also don't think Cerra has shown that he deserves to be ahead of the players we have had in there. Not even close for the most part. He has not been great in defence and hasn't looked ready for the middle.

Personally I want Acres in the middle and Aish on the wing.
 

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apuchar

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Not sure how much of that is perceived to be honest, although a forward-half press and setting-up attacks from defence ain't uncharted territory in the current state of the game.

Duman's a young developing player, you're not likely to get defensive perfection from less experienced types. I reckon there tends to be a lack of awareness for the role development has in execution of game play and people can tend to mistake development for something not working.
Just questioning the balance. And Duman certainly wasn't the only one..I chose him because of recency. Found it odd that at that vital time of the game he chose to make himself available to attack, thereby leaving his opponent free and dangerous, on the hff when the situation surely demanded a defense first mentality. Blakeley's lack of defensive ability seems to out-way any run he might bring. As would using Hughes or the like as a running defender in the place of an elite kick like Wilson. Just seems strange when we need a last minute goal, we always put Walters forward or take a punt on Fyfe. If that's the best way to score, why not use that offensive philosophy more often. It's more complicated than that, I know, but we are discussing an overall mentality we take into games. Seems skewed, to me.
 

sherrif

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So you have a problem with Lyon doing exactly what Buckley did with Aish, and after Aish established himself in that position under Longmuir, you want to move him? I'm also struggling to identify which are our tackling forwards? I know Henry does, thank goodness.
I have a problem with Aish playing where Buckley played him. Considering Longmuir has said they had to play Aish half back because of the structure of their list with not enough half backs and too many mids. Aish has also said he talked to Longmuir who wanted to play him wing. He was described in his juniour years as a class natural mid and he played there for all his time at Brisbane. Really is an unfilled talent. For most of his draft year he was described the equal of Josh Kelly. We need good mid kicks and he kicked the ball at 87.6% kicking efficiency at the draft champs. Injuries at the wrong times have stalled his career so far, but he shapes as a good player already and potentially a great player.

As far as tackling forwards go Sturt might be a surprise packet in terms of tackling forwards. At least I hope so. As much as some on here seem to think its silly to talk about players changing positions the fact is that always happens with a new coach and a different game style. Wouldnt completely bet against Hughes or Conca being repositioned. Maybe Stephens if we draft him or Banfiled if he improves.
 
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sherrif

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I didn't say anything about Buckley.
I have (had) a problem with Hill, Cerra, Blakely for example, being used in defence when to me they would be better utilised as attacking/creative players.
I'm hoping to see a style of football more focused on creativity and players showing flair, dare and imagination.

Aish is one I've kept an eye on since he was drafted and he hasn't reached anywhere near the heights predicted for him. I'm hoping he will be given a creative, attacking role in our team.
We also have selected way too many natural inside mids and then repositioned them. The result has been we constantly get too many players at the contest and get destroyed on the outside. I like to see Cerra play entirely onball with low ground times minutes like Blakely did a few years ago where he played around 60% ground time most weeks. Tucker is also a see ball get ball type player who suited onball. For this to happen though we have to play Walters and MUndy less midfield and Im hoping we do that even though it will effect our win loss record early on next year.
 

theGav56

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We also have selected way too many natural inside mids and then repositioned them. The result has been we constantly get too many players at the contest and get destroyed on the outside. I like to see Cerra play entirely onball with low ground times minutes like Blakely did a few years ago where he played around 60% ground time most weeks. Tucker is also a see ball get ball type player who suited onball. For this to happen though we have to play Walters and MUndy less midfield and Im hoping we do that even though it will effect our win loss record early on next year.
That is pretty low ground time for a 3rd year midfielder. Would restrict our ability to play new players
 
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Nodgey

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Off topic.... there’s been attacking half backs for ages, but for mine it was the move of Andrew Mcleod to half back that really started this trend of attack from defense. I understand it, and it has merit, but you can be robbing Peter to pay Paul at times. Stephen Hill should have been wing his entire career.
 

sherrif

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That is pretty low ground time for a 3rd year midfielder. Would restrict our ability to play new players
No it wouldnt. We can swap young mids in different positions just like we did with Cerra and Brayshaw.. Cerra Im convinced is a ton better player when he can initiate play. He would be playing the impact mid role that most teams have. Low minutes but high impact 60-65% game time, where he can do what he does best without being effected by fatigue.. Brisbane used Zorko and Lyons in that role at times with great success last year. Cerra should be significantly stronger and fitter next season but likely to still need a bit more conditioning before gaining extended mid minutes. This way he plays his best position more now.
 

theGav56

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No it wouldnt. We can swap young mids in different positions just like we did with Cerra and Brayshaw.. Cerra Im convinced is a ton better player when he can initiate play. He would be playing the impact mid role that most teams have. Low minutes but high impact 60-65% game time, where he can do what he does best without being effected by fatigue.. Brisbane used Zorko and Lyons in that role at times with great success last year. Cerra should be significantly stronger and fitter next season but likely to still need a bit more conditioning before gaining extended mid minutes. This way he plays his best position more now.
having a midfielder you are only going to play 60% game time will be very restrictive and will certainly impact the likelihood of including players like Sturt or Henry because they will also be on limited time. That's my point. If he doesn't have the fitness base to play midfield yet I much prefer him being in a rotation with other players via hb.

The other thing for me with Cerra is that his performance isn't at a level yet that warrents a key midfield role. An important pre-season for him to stake a claim in there.
 

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sherrif

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having a midfielder you are only going to play 60% game time will be very restrictive and will certainly impact the likelihood of including players like Sturt or Henry because they will also be on limited time. That's my point. If he doesn't have the fitness base to play midfield yet I much prefer him being in a rotation with other players via hb.

The other thing for me with Cerra is that his performance isn't at a level yet that warrents a key midfield role. An important pre-season for him to stake a claim in there.
Yeah I got your point. I just disagree completely. LIke I said I think both Tucker and Cerra need to play in roles where they play on on instinct. I checked and most teams play a mid who's not a kid for around 65-67% (not 60-65% like I first said) of game time. I hate the idea of repositioning natural inside mids into different roles. Its the reason in my view why we get destroyed on the outside so often. Im not sure anyone can say that Cerra isnt at a level in terms of midfield play yet. He barely played there last year at all.Im saying he is much, much better mid than a defender because he is a natural ball winner and not a player who reacts well to following a man. No reason why Sturt and Henry couldnt have decent game time if they are forward anyway. I dont want genuine inside mids rotating around the ground, but rather selecting more players who only play midfield with 7 defenders and 6 forwards not including Walters who id play 50/50.
 
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theGav56

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Yeah I got your point. I just disagree completely. LIke I said I think both Tucker and Cerra need to play in roles where they play on on instinct. I checked and most teams play a mid who's not a kid for around 65-67% (not 60-65% like I first said) of game time. I hate the idea of repositioning natural inside mids into different roles. Its the reason in my view why we get destroyed on the outside so often. Im not sure anyone can say that Cerra isnt at a level in terms of midfield play yet. He barely played there last year at all.Im saying he is much, much better mid than a defender because he is a natural ball winner and not a player who reacts well to following a man. No reason why Sturt and Henry couldnt have decent game time if they are forward anyway. I dont want genuine inside mids rotating around the ground, but rather selecting more players who only play midfield with 7 defenders and 6 forwards not including Walters who id play 50/50.
Have you done a best 22?
 

Damon_3388

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Fills a big hole in our list, tough small defender with neat disposal who can play wing, perfecto. Welcome mate 💜
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at what a solid, fundamentally-sound, team player he is. Does all the selfless stuff like blocking and shepherding for his teammates, and often puts his body on the line.

Only real question is his body and fitness, and whether he'll stand up to 22 games without injuring himself.
 

FreoRicci

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At training today. Is this his first session? Looks fit and raring. Hopefully has something to prove, to Collingwood for rejecting him and taking the wing role.
 

FreoRicci

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'Collingwood rejecting him' is a bit harsh on them. And him.
Probably too harsh. But certainly wouldn’t be up for a trade if they didn’t think he’s long term. Expendable probably less harsh? Reckon it’ll be our win anyway
 

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