Welcome Welcome to Hawthorn, Chad Wingard

arupist

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Wingard was recruited as a high impact superstar player with a contract to go with that profile. The club traded a young 200 gamer plus two high draft picks (first and second round picks). That is a big price for a player and as high a price that has been paid that I can recall in recent history. People rightly expect more than has been delivered to date. Obviously his ongoing injuries are a concern but he has also had little impact on the field thus far. People need to stop taking pot shots at Ryan Burton and his character because Wingard hasn't met those high expectations at this stage. By all accounts Burton was shattered at being traded and people just need to lay off.
Whilst I tend to agree with you, in the main, Burton was not a 200-gamer, in fact, not even a 50-gamer, so we have to temper our idea of how much we paid.
 

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4THAWN

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Burton is going to be a gun. Simple. Great decision maker, great ball user, good hands and has added some toughness to his game this year. He may have been arrogant, but he was also 21 years of age at Hawthorn. People mature at that age. I didn't see anything on the field that suggested he wasn't willing to play his role. Last year, he even sacrificed his game to be more accountable.

If Burton is still on our list, we have the opportunity to release Sicily forward.

To everyone bagging the character of Ryan Burton, it is a pretty big contradiction when you are doing so in support of Chad Wingard. Wingard is too bloody temperamental for mine, and at 25 years of age who knows if the penny will drop for him. I'm really worried he want's it on his terms. His best form always coincided with Port Adelaide's best years.
thats hardly true mate. Burton's kicking is not in the realm of Sicilys. TOB and Burton share more similarities than Sic and Burton, and TOB has come into the team, yet Sicily has not been released forward.

Averaged 278 metres gained last year as a backman, as opposed to 512 from sicily.
 

WireHawk

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Realistically it's all about next year for Wingard.
We are not contenders this year, but with a full pre-season
for Chad, and Tommy Boy back, next season is where Wingard will
shine.

With the possible addition of Coniglio and Patton and the natural
improvement of some of our young players Wingard will show his
true worth.

We will see some glimpses this year but it will be 2020 when the stars will
align for us.
 

OnceKicked50

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thats hardly true mate. Burton's kicking is not in the realm of Sicilys. TOB and Burton share more similarities than Sic and Burton, and TOB has come into the team, yet Sicily has not been released forward.

Averaged 278 metres gained last year as a backman, as opposed to 512 from sicily.
Not many people can kick the ball like Sicily. But Burton was only in his second full season last year, even so, he was asked to play a more defensive role last year.

I don't see any value in comparing his stats to Sicily. Just as I'm not expecting Tim English to have as many hit-outs as Max Gawn. Burton is a real talent. I find it odd that many on here would rather assume that's not the case. He was bloody second in the rising star and hardly any Hawks fan wouldn't have thought he was robbed.
 
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toomanysquibs

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Some people pulling the rip cord a bit early here, despite being reminded fairly constantly about our other Star imports having similar beginnings.

You could literally have cut and pasted a bunch of comments from all those threads into this one, and come out with a near identical thread.
 

4THAWN

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Wingard was recruited as a high impact superstar player with a contract to go with that profile. The club traded a young 200 gamer plus two high draft picks (first and second round picks). That is a big price for a player and as high a price that has been paid that I can recall in recent history. People rightly expect more than has been delivered to date. Obviously his ongoing injuries are a concern but he has also had little impact on the field thus far. People need to stop taking pot shots at Ryan Burton and his character because Wingard hasn't met those high expectations at this stage. By all accounts Burton was shattered at being traded and people just need to lay off.
ye hop off the burton slander

but when talking of a trade theres obviously outside factors involved e.g. we already have TOB/Scrimshaw to play that role, so that counters our loss of burton. I'd go as far as to say we didn't lose anything in terms of backline stocks.

Pick 15/35 for wingard(essentially, once you realise we've completely replaced Burton)

Compare that to other trades in the period

pick 6/23 for hogan and pick 63(paid more than us)

Pick 9 and Essendons 2019 1st(roughly pick 10) for dylan shiel and GWS 2019 2nd(roughly pick 35)

so picks 9/10 for dylan shiel and 35 (paid a lot more than us)

If all 3 of these players are at full fitness, peak performance, then the best trade of the bunch is the wingard trade imo.
 

4THAWN

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Not many people can kick the ball like Sicily. But Burton was only in his second full season last year, even so, he was asked to play a more defensive role last year.

I don't see any value in comparing his stats to Sicily. Just as I'm not expecting Tim English to have as many hit-outs as Max Gawn. Burton is a real talent. I find it odd that many on here would rather assume that's not the case. He was bloody second in the rising star and hardly any Hawks fan wouldn't have thought he was robbed.
I just honestly think scrimshaw is going to be a better player, so losing Burton doesn't phase me.

As well as this we have TOB finally filling his shoes
 

OnceKicked50

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I just honestly think scrimshaw is going to be a better player, so losing Burton doesn't phase me.

As well as this we have TOB finally filling his shoes
Ultimately for mine it's going to come down to the direction the club takes. If we go down a rebuild this year, hitting the draft, you can't look at the trade in a positive light.

If we land Coniglio and some other targets, then it might be a win.

Wingard was surely a win now, and next year, decision.
 

4THAWN

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Ultimately for mine it's going to come down to the direction the club takes. If we go down a rebuild this year, hitting the draft, you can't look at the trade in a positive light.

If we land Coniglio and some other targets, then it might be a win.

Wingard was surely a win now, and next year, decision.
we aren't going to be "rebuilding" this year. It will simply be "building". Too much talent/potential on the team for the club to waste even a single season not vying for premiership contention. Titch, O'meara, Sicily, Impey, Hardwick, Worpel, Mcevoy, Ceglar, Frawley, Smith, Gunston, Breust, Wingard, Scuily, O'Brien, Stratton, Shiels, Hendo, Cousins is a good enough group to build around and add to no doubt. Need a mixture of adding for the right-now, while also finding the youth that can/will replace the veterans in 1-3 years.
 

smeltitdeltit

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Burton is going to be a gun. Simple. Great decision maker, great ball user, good hands and has added some toughness to his game this year. He may have been arrogant, but he was also 21 years of age at Hawthorn. People mature at that age. I didn't see anything on the field that suggested he wasn't willing to play his role. Last year, he even sacrificed his game to be more accountable.

If Burton is still on our list, we have the opportunity to release Sicily forward.

To everyone bagging the character of Ryan Burton, it is a pretty big contradiction when you are doing so in support of Chad Wingard. Wingard is too bloody temperamental for mine, and at 25 years of age who knows if the penny will drop for him. I'm really worried he want's it on his terms. His best form always coincided with Port Adelaide's best years.
You must have missed his shirking a few key contests in the 2018 finals series. I called it at the time
 

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OnceKicked50

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You must have missed his shirking a few key contests in the 2018 finals series. I called it at the time
Yeah I must have. Didn’t miss Chad flying one handed, twice, against the Dees but.

Kid was 21. He is having a very good year at Port.
 

OnceKicked50

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we aren't going to be "rebuilding" this year. It will simply be "building". Too much talent/potential on the team for the club to waste even a single season not vying for premiership contention. Titch, O'meara, Sicily, Impey, Hardwick, Worpel, Mcevoy, Ceglar, Frawley, Smith, Gunston, Breust, Wingard, Scuily, O'Brien, Stratton, Shiels, Hendo, Cousins is a good enough group to build around and add to no doubt. Need a mixture of adding for the right-now, while also finding the youth that can/will replace the veterans in 1-3 years.
We are a long way from contending at the moment mate. We need much more than Mitchell back to take the current list into a position of contending in 2020.

I have read multiple times from the posters with significant inside knowledge that the club is looking at 2022 to be in a position to contend. For mine, it seems the narrative within the club has changed, and that it's been acknowledged the list isn't where we thought.
 

4THAWN

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We are a long way from contending at the moment mate. We need much more than Mitchell back to take the current list into a position of contending in 2020.

I have read multiple times from the posters with significant inside knowledge that the club is looking at 2022 to be in a position to contend. For mine, it seems the narrative within the club has changed, and that it's been acknowledged the list isn't where we thought.
IMO, 2022 veterans
gunston - 31
breust - 31
frawley - 34
smith - 33
scully - 31
hendo 33
stratton - 33
shiels - 31
puopolo - 34

Obviously some, maybe a lot of these guys wont be at the club in 2022.

But I just reckon if we are going to be in premiership contention between now and 2022, its probably going to be sooner rather than later purely due to the losses of these players as they age.
 

BobHawk

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ye hop off the burton slander

but when talking of a trade theres obviously outside factors involved e.g. we already have TOB/Scrimshaw to play that role, so that counters our loss of burton. I'd go as far as to say we didn't lose anything in terms of backline stocks.

Pick 15/35 for wingard(essentially, once you realise we've completely replaced Burton)

Compare that to other trades in the period

pick 6/23 for hogan and pick 63(paid more than us)

Pick 9 and Essendons 2019 1st(roughly pick 10) for dylan shiel and GWS 2019 2nd(roughly pick 35)

so picks 9/10 for dylan shiel and 35 (paid a lot more than us)

If all 3 of these players are at full fitness, peak performance, then the best trade of the bunch is the wingard trade imo.
You have made a good argument and Scrimshaw has been a great pick up for the club. Not sure that the punters in the outer will see it this way though.
 

tige19

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Some people pulling the rip cord a bit early here, despite being reminded fairly constantly about our other Star imports having similar beginnings.

You could literally have cut and pasted a bunch of comments from all those threads into this one, and come out with a near identical thread.
I agree... however you can only judge based on the evidence thus far and it’s not a great start.
 

tige19

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IMO, 2022 veterans
gunston - 31
breust - 31
frawley - 34
smith - 33
scully - 31
hendo 33
stratton - 33
shiels - 31
puopolo - 34

Obviously some, maybe a lot of these guys wont be at the club in 2022.

But I just reckon if we are going to be in premiership contention between now and 2022, its probably going to be sooner rather than later purely due to the losses of these players as they age.
If at least 4-5 aren’t out of the club then we’re going to be in a world of pain.
 

Spursfan

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You must have missed his shirking a few key contests in the 2018 finals series. I called it at the time
I thought his second half of last season was solid and would've been against trading him (after the home and away games) but after the finals I thought this guy is missing something. You can't be a star in big games shirking key contests like you say.
 

OnceKicked50

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I thought his second half of last season was solid and would've been against trading him (after the home and away games) but after the finals I thought this guy is missing something. You can't be a star in big games shirking key contests like you say.
He was in his second season, his first finals series. Staggering to put a line through him over it.

What does that view say about a 25 year old, with a chance to win a game flying one-handed?
 

4THAWN

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If at least 4-5 aren’t out of the club then we’re going to be in a world of pain.
agreed, but at the same time its not easy to just replace 5-7 of those players, let alone get back into contention without them. Having said that, hawthorn has been able to replace lost players quite effectively in the past, so we'll see.
 

The Chad and I

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"It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a mature-aged recruit experiencing soft-tissue injuries must be in want of an attitude adjustment."

Chad's work rate the last two weeks has been excellent.
Some of his chase downs have been inspiring.


BTW - I tried to post this in a youtube clip, but it wouldn't play properly.
Here's a GIF. Hope it works.

 

Milkshaker

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Not many people can kick the ball like Sicily. But Burton was only in his second full season last year, even so, he was asked to play a more defensive role last year.

I don't see any value in comparing his stats to Sicily. Just as I'm not expecting Tim English to have as many hit-outs as Max Gawn. Burton is a real talent. I find it odd that many on here would rather assume that's not the case. He was bloody second in the rising star and hardly any Hawks fan wouldn't have thought he was robbed.
Agree with all your posts and yes I trust the club. Everyone thought Dustin Martin was a juvenile delinquent as well. Now new recruits are living with him when they arrive at Richmond.

Sticking the boots into a 20 year old (Burton) who moved away from home, after a career threatening injury is poor form. The same player, who despite that injury forced his way into the best 22 and was lauded by his peers as a rising star. To me that says he has character. So, his personality may have left a bit to be desired. That can be fixed in a team environment.

A lot of stars in this game have attitude. A lot of the time it sits nicely with confidence in their own ability as well. Burton has the tools. We may have traded out a very good player. Not much we can do about it now.

Hopefully Wingard and Mitch will be like two new recruits in 2020.
 
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Spursfan

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He was in his second season, his first finals series. Staggering to put a line through him over it.

What does that view say about a 25 year old, with a chance to win a game flying one-handed?
Not to nitpick but Burton played finals in 2016. In last year's finals Burton dropped a number of overhead marks when he was on his own and shirked a number of one on ones when he just had to be better. A once off maybe you can live with but it happened often enough that it stuck in my mind (and a number of posters). I have no inside info, but I wouldn't be surprised if Clarko thought this guy is expendable as he doesn't have 'it' after those 2 games.
 

PhatHQ

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Chad is a gun.
Hated him as a Port player ripping us apart yet loved his ability.
Rough start? Yes
I mentioned before the port game that he should have been placed on ice to do a mini preseason & go hard at it after the bye.
We aren’t doing any damage this year to make finals so the hammy that I hope is only a 2 week recovery takes 5-6 to get that fitness right up there & hit the last handful of games with confidence looking at 2020 & a massive pre-season to play in the midfield.

Burton 2019... star
Burton 2018... a bit soft for me
Shirked a few contests & didn’t really bounce back after knocking Higgins into next week as the turning point. From there on out he wasn’t the same player IMO.
If he had attitude on himself, who cares.. the kid could play.
After Higgins I would have to assume that there might not have been enough the support there from the club & leadership group where the incident clearly affected him & may have left Ryan with a large bout of guilt & remorse to work through as an individual.
I want to reiterate that this is purely speculation on Ryan & I do apologies if I am wrong but Burton didnt attack the contest the same after Higgins.
I hope Burton has a great career as well as The Chad being a Superstar player at Hawthorn.
Win win for both clubs
 
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