Welcome Welcome to Hawthorn, Chad Wingard

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You didn’t even reply diligently to my post...Need a cuddle? Every bloody person needs some empathy and cuddling in life, its not a confined statement. I’m not sure where you’re headed with this but it’s not making sense to me, I’m saying it’s green and you’re telling me green is actually sarcoline.
You singled out two players, who are both aboriginal, as though they are part of some tried and tested mentally fragile group who require supervision by an elder, who also happens to be aboriginal.

Where exactly were you headed with that?

Or are you trying to suggest that the race of all these three guys has nothing to do with what you wrote?
 

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tige19

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You singled out two players, who are both aboriginal, as though they are part of some tried and tested mentally fragile group who require supervision by an elder, who also happens to be aboriginal.

Where exactly were you headed with that?

Or are you trying to suggest that the race of all these three guys has nothing to do with what you wrote?
I’m saying that the indigenous boys place a extremely high value on their culture and brotherhood and the fact that Silk is there is a significant part of their support system. It has nothing to do with race/religion or colour, it’s plainly fact that the indigenous guys can face very different social challenges than other guys.

Silk being at the club, with them daily, being a senior person to turn to would be significant for them... if you think otherwise you have rocks in your brain.
 

tige19

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Contrary to what? That recruiting Garlett was a mistake? Sure, it didn't work out but it was always a high risk, high reward move. I don't mind the club taking a risk like that when the list was in as good a shape as it was and it only cost us an end of 2nd round pick.

But you're the one who has suggested Burgoyne is some mystical "elder" who the club uses to keep our younger, indigenous players from mentally collapsing. So I put to you that if this is something he does and is something the club uses him for - it being the "main reason" (your words) the club offers him another year - then why wasn't Dayle Garlett sent to live with Burgoyne instead of Hodge? Why hasn't the club gone ahead and recruited every talented indigenous player with issues (eg. Sydney Stack, Harley Bennell, Chris Yarran, etc.) knowing that Burgoyne would be able to help them focus on being great players with professional lifestyles?

The reason is because Burgoyne is just one of many great leaders our club has had over the past decade since his arrival. A great leader of all types of people and he just so happens to be indigenous. There's no doubt he's a fantastic role model for indigenous youth, but it's disrespectful to him to suggest that the main reason he'd be playing next year is because he's required to be around to prevent Wingard and Impey from "falling off a cliff" and "struggling". It's even more disrespectful to Wingard and Impey. They've both played the majority of their careers without Burgoyne around to "cuddle" them, and have still managed to play great footy and maintain a lifestyle that has allowed them to play regularly at AFL level.
You’re a drama queen
 

tige19

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And you made a racist post and can't see it.

Pull your head in because as far as I'm concerned you're skating on very thin ice.
Which part was racist? I'm really keen to see how much you can twist it to suit your PC narrative... bloody odd I'd be racist when I've player sponsored multiple indigenous players and have donated year in year out to the "the young mob program". But hey whatever suits.

a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.
 
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NICE1

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And you made a racist post and can't see it.

Pull your head in because as far as I'm concerned you're skating on very thin ice.
Racist? Cmon mate you're drawing a long bow there. Let's not be so quick to throw a label on everything like the rest of society does today.
I dont believe there was any racist intent with what he was saying.
 

Gralin

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Which part was racist?

a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.
Racist? Cmon mate you're drawing a long bow there. Let's not be so quick to throw a label on everything like the rest of society does today.
I dont believe there was any racist intent with what he was saying.
Go and read the post again, and have a think about if you'd say it to their faces
Chad and Jarman will be the main reason the club give Silk another season at least, he is the "elder" for them and keeps them mentally in a good space, it's actually genius from the club. I fear that when Silk goes Chad could fall off a cliff and Jars may struggle, both need a cuddle.
Then think about if you'd use that same reasoning for any other 23-26 year old boys at their second clubs
 

tige19

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Go and read the post again, and have a think about if you'd say it to their faces


Then think about if you'd use that same reasoning for any other 23-26 year old boys at their second clubs
Again, it's bizarre you correlate racism with anything I said... do you follow these guys on social media? They spend a lot of time with Silk, both have said how much they respect him, Chad himself has said he's struggled adjusting, Silk being here is a bit of a comfort pillow for them, just like my best mate is for me.

Maybe I should've added Jackson Trengove to the fold, he seems another guy who is a big support to Jarman.

Both Chad and Jarman seem like lads of the highest order but like so many young men they need support and it's my view that Silk gives them that and more... we'd all be falling off a cliff and some stage without our support system, it's life and it's tough but to suggest it was racist is drawing a long bloody bow, it's actually pathetic. Bizarre it was only quoted by a mod and not any of the other 1000s of posters here and literally a week later. I'd hazard a guess someone is searching for issues rather than accepting the post for what it was.
 

Gralin

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Again, it's bizarre you correlate racism with anything I said... do you follow these guys on social media? They spend a lot of time with Silk, both have said how much they respect him, Chad himself has said he's struggled adjusting, Silk being here is a bit of a comfort pillow for them, just like my best mate is for me.

Maybe I should've added Jackson Trengove to the fold, he seems another guy who is a big support to Jarman.

Both Chad and Jarman seem like lads of the highest order but like so many young men they need support and it's my view that Silk gives them that and more... we'd all be falling off a cliff and some stage without our support system, it's life and it's tough but to suggest it was racist is drawing a long bloody bow, it's actually pathetic. Bizarre it was only quoted by a mod and not any of the other 1000s of posters here and literally a week later. I'd hazard a guess someone is searching for issues rather than accepting the post for what it was.
Worded like you did here is fine. Can you see how you worded it originally and how you've followed it up looks though?

You've accused two blokes who were able to play footy professionally without him at Port of needing Burgoyne there to be able to do the same at Hathorn because they are indigenous.

I'm not doubting the impact Silk has, I'm not disagreeing that family is important to both Wingard and Impey either.

I'm suggesting the generalisation you made about a couple of our players based on their heritage is a pretty good example of one form of racism. What you've written in the post above about support systems which applies to anyone is clearly not something that I would read as racist. But before we got here there was a bit of the oblivious offensive comment and then double down because that's not how you view the comment.
 

grumbleguts

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Worded like you did here is fine. Can you see how you worded it originally and how you've followed it up looks though?

You've accused two blokes who were able to play footy professionally without him at Port of needing Burgoyne there to be able to do the same at Hathorn because they are indigenous.

I'm not doubting the impact Silk has, I'm not disagreeing that family is important to both Wingard and Impey either.

I'm suggesting the generalisation you made about a couple of our players based on their heritage is a pretty good example of one form of racism. What you've written in the post above about support systems which applies to anyone is clearly not something that I would read as racist. But before we got here there was a bit of the oblivious offensive comment and then double down because that's not how you view the comment.
It was a racist as they come. It's that patronising type of racism that suggests:

"They're a happy folk aren't they? don't they sing so well? And that dancing they do! with the sticks and the face paint... Amazing! I'm glad they've got something to help them or they'd be back in the caves thugging it out with the alcohol and the raw meat."

It's the sort of racism that people don't know they suffer from. Thank you guys for noticing it.
 

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tige19

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Worded like you did here is fine. Can you see how you worded it originally and how you've followed it up looks though?

You've accused two blokes who were able to play footy professionally without him at Port of needing Burgoyne there to be able to do the same at Hathorn because they are indigenous.

I'm not doubting the impact Silk has, I'm not disagreeing that family is important to both Wingard and Impey either.

I'm suggesting the generalisation you made about a couple of our players based on their heritage is a pretty good example of one form of racism. What you've written in the post above about support systems which applies to anyone is clearly not something that I would read as racist. But before we got here there was a bit of the oblivious offensive comment and then double down because that's not how you view the comment.
The thing that makes racism a issue is providing commentary on things/statements that carry no racist value at all... for anyone to read my post as racist they would need to over analyse, assume, then draw an outcome that is both highly irrational and untrue... it’s simply the PC world that we live in.

I absolutely agree, re-reading my post and perhaps being naive and flippant about how it would be context twisted was a fault on my behalf. For that I apologise unreservedly.
 

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grumbleguts people are guilty of this all the time and if you don't talk about it there is no chance to change the behaviour.

I've had conversations on topics where I think back to things I've said in the past and cringe, but I'd rather that than to continue saying things out of ignorance or lack of empathy
 

Gralin

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The thing that makes racism a issue is providing commentary on things/statements that carry no racist value at all... for anyone to read my post as racist they would need to over analyse, assume, then draw an outcome that is both highly irrational and untrue... it’s simply the PC world that we live in.

I absolutely agree, re-reading my post and perhaps being naive and flippant about how it would be context twisted was a fault on my behalf. For that I apologise unreservedly.
I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to say in the first part of your post.

People can be ignorant of the impact of their words through lack of education. You can say something with good intentions that has the opposite effect on people. If they don't explain it to you and simply keep quiet then that is still an issue, just not for you.
Look at Chance Bateman's video explaining the impact of the word ape. Fantastic video, some people really would need the explanation, it's an opportunity to change behaviour. It should be taken.
 

grumbleguts

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grumbleguts people are guilty of this all the time and if you don't talk about it there is no chance to change the behaviour.

I've had conversations on topics where I think back to things I've said in the past and cringe, but I'd rather that than to continue saying things out of ignorance or lack of empathy
To say someone needs to be looked after in their mid 20s lest they fall off the rails, purely on the basis of their genetic make up, which is what was suggested, can only be read one way. My mum left school at 14 to look after her younger siblings so my grandmother could get a job (my grand father died of a congenital illness). My mum is highly intelligent, and due to circumstances beyond her control and largely imposed on her by society she wasn't able to get an education. No going off the rails, losing her way, when we came along, if we needed shoes they'd be second hand, but if we needed books they were the best available. I went on and got my PhD, my brother is a CPA, when I was 14, she enrolled at Monash uni as a mature aged student and got a degree majoring in anthropology. My wife is a mekeo woman from PNG and also has a PhD. Race has nothing to do with it.

These guys have already proven they have the intestinal fortitude to make anything they want of themselves. One of the toughest jobs in the country. One of the most rigorous requirements to put effort in to maintain an elite level, it would be inconceivable to think they would have life go wrong now.
 

tige19

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To say someone needs to be looked after in their mid 20s lest they fall off the rails, purely on the basis of their genetic make up, which is what was suggested, can only be read one way. My mum left school at 14 to look after her younger siblings so my grandmother could get a job (my grand father died of a congenital illness). My mum is highly intelligent, and due to circumstances beyond her control and largely imposed on her by society she wasn't able to get an education. No going off the rails, losing her way, when we came along, if we needed shoes they'd be second hand, but if we needed books they were the best available. I went on and got my PhD, my brother is a CPA, when I was 14, she enrolled at Monash uni as a mature aged student and got a degree majoring in anthropology. My wife is a mekeo woman from PNG and also has a PhD. Race has nothing to do with it.

These guys have already proven they have the intestinal fortitude to make anything they want of themselves. One of the toughest jobs in the country. One of the most rigorous requirements to put effort in to maintain an elite level, it would be inconceivable to think they would have life go wrong now.
So there’s 120 elite athletes, elite footballers who have the ability to discipline themselves and get the best out of themselves that have horrendous gambling problems. Inconceivable to
Think they would have life go wrong? What a ridiculous statement, everyone who is human can veer off the right path, no-one is immune.

Im not sure what your CV has to do with it but good on you...
 

COKEandCOLA

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Bruno Oresar

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Sorry but you're clutching at straws here and surely there was nothing sinister behind his post?

If what you're saying is the case then it looks like both the AFL and HFC are racist as well then.

https://m.hawthornfc.com.au/news/2019-02-19/burgoyne-takes-on-mentor-role

Think the blokes owed an apology 😁
Everyone chill. All posters coming from the right place but I must admit the bit I find the most offensive in this conversation is using the label racist. How about a discussion where we look at the intent of words and not just throw around needlessly aggressive and emotive terms such as ‘racist’. Some parts of our society are so quick to shut down points of view that are different to theirs using insults and PC othering. I believe this form of self righteous posturing, e.g. you’re racist if you disagree with me, had a big part to play in the unexpected victory of the Morrisson government. Moral indignation and self perceived value superiority is the bread and butter of the extreme left (and right) and it annoys the hell out of me.
 

COKEandCOLA

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Everyone chill. All posters coming from the right place but I must admit the bit I find the most offensive in this conversation is using the label racist. How about a discussion where we look at the intent of words and not just throw around needlessly aggressive and emotive terms such as ‘racist’. Some parts of our society are so quick to shut down points of view that are different to theirs using insults and PC othering. I believe this form of self righteous posturing, e.g. you’re racist if you disagree with me, had a big part to play in the unexpected victory of the Morrisson government. Moral indignation and self perceived value superiority is the bread and butter of the extreme left (and right) and it annoys the hell out of me.
Sorry mate but why are you quoting my post to get your point across?

Maybe one of those posts labeling an innocent poster as racist would have been more appropriate.

Personally I agree with you and think the whole thing has been blown way out of proportion and I feel sorry for tige19 because that's a massive accusation for someone to make, especially when it's obviously BS as well.

I still think the bloke is owed an apology but little to no chance that'll happen.
 

Bruno Oresar

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Sorry mate but why are you quoting my post to get your point across?

Maybe one of those posts labeling an innocent poster as racist would have been more appropriate.

Personally I agree with you and think the whole thing has been blown way out of proportion and I feel sorry for tige19 because that's a massive accusation for someone to make, especially when it's obviously BS as well.

I still think the bloke is owed an apology but little to no chance that'll happen.
Because I am tech illiterate. I agree with your previous post completely. That’s why I liked it.
 

tige19

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Be very careful mate you'll be labeled sexist next 😂
To say I was completely flabbergasted is understating it, how race or racism itself was introduced is highly disappointing (a bit odd to as I am ethnic, married a half Italian girl born in Japan and have staff and clients who are, in part indigenous).

My concern is there is more harm than good in over politicising comments, in most cases it creates negative discussion and provides real racists a platform to be heard. The less air we give racism the better, I truely believe we live in a much more open and accepting society and the true racists are the absolute minority.

I’ve had quite a few messages, thanks ✌️
 

Abasi

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Sorry but you're clutching at straws here and surely there was nothing sinister behind his post?

If what you're saying is the case then it looks like both the AFL and HFC are racist as well then.

https://m.hawthornfc.com.au/news/2019-02-19/burgoyne-takes-on-mentor-role

Think the blokes owed an apology 😁
The only one clutching at straws here is the guy posting an article about a 36 yr old having a mentoring role as some form of evidence that it’s correct to say that without Burgoyne around Impey and Chad would fall off a cliff, because “they need a cuddle”.
 
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