Toast Welcome to Hawthorn - Conor Nash - International Rookie

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Mojo

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Just watching the first half of the JLT game against Brisbane & Nash appears to be completely lacking a routine while setting up for goal - I don't quite understand how an AFL footballer can't have factored in a routine at goal, as a forward...
 

VandoHawk

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Just watching the first half of the JLT game against Brisbane & Nash appears to be completely lacking a routine while setting up for goal - I don't quite understand how an AFL footballer can't have factored in a routine at goal, as a forward...
He didn't start as a forward and was only introduced to the role last year. Even at BH he was being used on the wing before trialled forward (with success) around halfway through the year. He's already got a lot of things to learn like structures, the right positions to be etc. But I agree - after a solid preseason surely somebody would've helped him establish a routine. He looks visibly uncomfortable when taking a set shot.
 

Mojo

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He didn't start as a forward and was only introduced to the role last year. Even at BH he was being used on the wing before trialled forward (with success) around halfway through the year. He's already got a lot of things to learn like structures, the right positions to be etc. But I agree - after a solid preseason surely somebody would've helped him establish a routine. He looks visibly uncomfortable when taking a set shot.
His accuracy is forgivable, for the reasons you said, but your second point is also on the money; no player should be without a goal routine at AFL level.
 

kazzooka

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His accuracy is forgivable, for the reasons you said, but your second point is also on the money; no player should be without a goal routine at AFL level.
Especially one that is a convert from another sport. He just needs to be told what to do and follow it in training and games till he kicks straight. Repeat, repeat and repeat.

At this level you can't expect a guy who has been playing for 5 minutes to figure out what many of us were taught and had drilled into us for years.

Buddy and Kennedy have wierd kicking actions but they know what works for them as they have been doing it since they were 5 and each time do the same thing.
 

TazHawk15

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Just watching the first half of the JLT game against Brisbane & Nash appears to be completely lacking a routine while setting up for goal - I don't quite understand how an AFL footballer can't have factored in a routine at goal, as a forward...
When he has a set shot at goal I have about as much confidence in him kicking it as I did when Langers and heaven forbid Stratts had a shot.
 

flinchfree

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Jan 30, 2014
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Whats the go with a player whos a decent field kick but hit and miss at goal?

The Buddy paradox.

tell him hes passing to a player 5 rows back?
Reckon this whole idea is a furphy.
With goal posts 6.4m apart, a teammate standing dead center would need to be hit up without moving more than 3m either way for the tale to be true.
In reality, during a game or even just kick to kick, if someone is on the move and has some sort of pressure on, they look to put the Sherrin in the area of their teammate with enough float to it so that it can be run on to or had out the back. In fact, putting it on their head is the most likely way for it to be intercepted or spoiled.

Over short distances, say less than 30m, a short stab drop punt can be pretty efficient at finding a teammate without them having to move much side to side or forward/back, but that kind of kick is generally low, and would be easily intercepted if attempted while shooting at goal.
The greatest field kicks, the Jarmans etc, were so brilliant because they could see the space for a downfield kick much better than most and give a teammate 75 meters away a chance to be hit on the tit. That still most often was a beautifully measured tightly spinning drop punt that when kicked was some 20-30 meters short and to the side from his Dunstall, but because of the understanding the Great ones had they knew where to make the run and catch.

Still, way way way different to a kick for goal which is almost an other worldly display of the skill.
On a set shot, it's a management of muscle movement to incredible degrees to create a nearly identical motion but that still requires the vagaries of timing a dropping oddly shaped ball and meeting it on it's downswing with a moving body part that places one off balance and standing on one leg. It aint a golf swing at a sitting object with no-one interfering, and we know how difficult THAT action is to perfect.:'(
Then there's wind, a ball that might be even mildly slick or muddy, needing to get plenty of momentum and getting the ball up quickly to rise over a man on the mark, but sufficiently forward in trajectory to gain distance, the pressure of the moment, the pressure of your team needing you to be perfect, body fatigue, mental fatigue, etc. etc.
When the shot at goal is taken in play, then it becomes more of an art that the Daicos's and Jarmans could find from within that is pure superhuman skill ability. They see in an instant what needs to be created and fashion their bodies around creating the possibility of foot meeting leather in a balletic meets martial arts moment.
There's no coinkidinki that mastering consistent goal kicking is an art only managed by a select few.
Kinda dumb really how footy callers continue to be dumbfounded, it just is what it is. It's a fine art in our game so respect that fact and cherish the good uns at it.
 
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TAITA

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Reckon this whole idea is a furphy.
With goal posts 6.4m apart, a teammate standing dead center would need to be hit up without moving more than 3m either way for the tale to be true.
In reality, during a game or even just kick to kick, if someone is on the move and has some sort of pressure on, they look to put the Sherrin in the area of their teammate with enough float to it so that it can be run on to or had out the back. In fact, putting it on their head is the most likely way for it to be intercepted or spoiled.

Over short distances, say less than 30m, a short stab drop punt can be pretty efficient at finding a teammate without them having to move much side to side or forward/back, but that kind of kick is generally low, and would be easily intercepted if attempted while shooting at goal.
The greatest field kicks, the Jarmans etc, were so brilliant because they could see the space for a downfield kick much better than most and give a teammate 75 meters away a chance to be hit on the tit. That still most often was a beautifully measured tightly spinning drop punt that when kicked was some 20-30 meters short and to the side from his Dunstall, but because of the understanding the Great ones had they knew where to make the run and catch.

Still, way way way different to a kick for goal which is almost an other worldly display of the skill.
On a set shot, it's a management of muscle movement to incredible degrees to create a nearly identical motion but that still requires the vagaries of timing a dropping oddly shaped ball and meeting it on it's downswing with a moving body part that places one off balance and standing on one leg. It aint a golf swing at a sitting object with no-one interfering, and we know how difficult THAT action is to perfect.:'(
Then there's wind, a ball that might be even mildly slick or muddy, needing to get plenty of momentum and getting the ball up quickly to rise over a man on the mark, but sufficiently forward in trajectory to gain distance, the pressure of the moment, the pressure of your team needing you to be perfect, body fatigue, mental fatigue, etc. etc.
When the shot at goal is taken in play, then it becomes more of an art that the Daicos's and Jarmans could find from within that is pure superhuman skill ability. They see in an instant what needs to be created and fashion their bodies around creating the possibility of foot meeting leather in a balletic meets martial arts moment.
There's no coinkidinki that mastering consistent goal kicking is an art only managed by a select few.
Kinda dumb really how footy callers continue to be dumbfounded, it just is what it is. It's a fine art in our game so respect that fact and cherish the good uns at it.
Yeah, that's all good but when you are on the move you still pick out a spot in space that you know that your guy will get to - kicking a ball through a 6.4 metre leeway should be a hell of a lot easier - the target is constant and you have time to complete your best kick - the only pressure being in your mind.

I look at preparations these days, most of the players seem to be running some hybrid 'Fevola' hold of the ball with one hand high, one low and then let loose with minimal guidance to the boot - it doesn't seem natural to me.

Bernie Quinlan and Stephen Reaper were the two best goalkickers I have ever seen, and they played in the shit of wind and rain but hit the goals consistently. Run at the goals, guide the ball onto your boot, kick through the ball - it's not rocket surgery.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
 

flinchfree

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Yeah, that's all good but when you are on the move you still pick out a spot in space that you know that your guy will get to - kicking a ball through a 6.4 metre leeway should be a hell of a lot easier - the target is constant and you have time to complete your best kick - the only pressure being in your mind.

I look at preparations these days, most of the players seem to be running some hybrid 'Fevola' hold of the ball with one hand high, one low and then let loose with minimal guidance to the boot - it doesn't seem natural to me.

Bernie Quinlan and Stephen Reaper were the two best goalkickers I have ever seen, and they played in the shit of wind and rain but hit the goals consistently. Run at the goals, guide the ball onto your boot, kick through the ball - it's not rocket surgery.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
Yeh, but you've picked one of the best ever in the super boot Quinlan as your example, and he's gone 817.612.
Not bad, but he's missed 43% of his shots....
Soooo, for regular mortals how much better do you expect them to be?
 

rogiebear93

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Yeah, that's all good but when you are on the move you still pick out a spot in space that you know that your guy will get to - kicking a ball through a 6.4 metre leeway should be a hell of a lot easier - the target is constant and you have time to complete your best kick - the only pressure being in your mind.

I look at preparations these days, most of the players seem to be running some hybrid 'Fevola' hold of the ball with one hand high, one low and then let loose with minimal guidance to the boot - it doesn't seem natural to me.

Bernie Quinlan and Stephen Reaper were the two best goalkickers I have ever seen, and they played in the shit of wind and rain but hit the goals consistently. Run at the goals, guide the ball onto your boot, kick through the ball - it's not rocket surgery.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

This is one of those 'better in my day' stats that don't really hold water. Since goals and points have been recorded, 12 of the top 35 goal kickers by way of accuracy are current players and only 2 of the bottom 35 are current day players.

On top of that, 20 of the top 35 seasons by a player on goal kicking accuracy have been since 2000, and only 2 of the bottom 35.
 

COKEandCOLA

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Feb 23, 2019
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Totally random question here, but what are the chances we could rewire Nash and turn him into a ruckman?

He's massive and mobile as hell, can lay a hard tackle as well.

If we're unable to get more out of him as a FWD/DEF then could it be worth the punt?

I'll shut my mouth now and see myself out.
 

MrPremiership

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Totally random question here, but what are the chances we could rewire Nash and turn him into a ruckman?

He's massive and mobile as hell, can lay a hard tackle as well.

If we're unable to get more out of him as a FWD/DEF then could it be worth the punt?

I'll shut my mouth now and see myself out.
Forward or a Winger is where'd I play him.

He's played 8 games......still learning the craft
 

Threadkilla

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Totally random question here, but what are the chances we could rewire Nash and turn him into a ruckman?

He's massive and mobile as hell, can lay a hard tackle as well.

If we're unable to get more out of him as a FWD/DEF then could it be worth the punt?

I'll shut my mouth now and see myself out.
Not a silly idea at all, I’ve often pondered the same thing. I assume with his athleticism that he has an okay leap on him too?
 

COKEandCOLA

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Forward or a Winger is where'd I play him.

He's played 8 games......still learning the craft
Still learning how to kick and mark a football?

Perhaps we could get him to participate in a few AusKick clinics.

Sorry if that sounded like a dig because it's not, I'm just not seeing how it'll work if he can't even get the basic fundamentals right.

It'd be a different story if we were developing him in the VFL but we're not and he looks totally lost out there.

It's almost inhumane what we're doing to the kid.

Seriously though his kicking is way too much of a liability to play him on a wing and with his above mentioned deficiencies he'll struggle to make it as a forward.

I was just thinking that he is more than big enough, has a decent leap and is very quick and mobile.

Maybe if we played him to his strengths and minimize the exposure of his weaknesses it would actually help him.

There's also the very real possibility it wouldn't work either and I acknowledge that.

I'm actually really lost with what to think about him at the moment because while he's definitely raw, there are certainly some great attributes there which look fantastic.

I'm not trying to poke fun at the kid, it's actually the opposite.

Really hoping that we can help him fulfill his potential but I think at the moment we're doing him more harm than good.
 

COKEandCOLA

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Not a silly idea at all, I’ve often pondered the same thing. I assume with his athleticism that he has an okay leap on him too?
I'd like to think not but I could be way off, which I usually am.

I'm just thinking of how we could play him to his strengths and minimize the exposure of his weaknesses.

He could possibly turn out to be a monster of a ruckman, or the idea was totally misguided and nothing but a pipedream.

I just feel sorry for the kid, he looks lost out there and people are rightly or wrongly taking potshots at him.

Personally I think we should be developing him in the VFL and harness the beast a little longer.

Fingers crossed he makes it regardless of where he ends up playing.
 

MrPremiership

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Still learning how to kick and mark a football?

Perhaps we could get him to participate in a few AusKick clinics.

Sorry if that sounded like a dig because it's not, I'm just not seeing how it'll work if he can't even get the basic fundamentals right.

It'd be a different story if we were developing him in the VFL but we're not and he looks totally lost out there.

It's almost inhumane what we're doing to the kid.

Seriously though his kicking is way too much of a liability to play him on a wing and with his above mentioned deficiencies he'll struggle to make it as a forward.

I was just thinking that he is more than big enough, has a decent leap and is very quick and mobile.

Maybe if we played him to his strengths and minimize the exposure of his weaknesses it would actually help him.

There's also the very real possibility it wouldn't work either and I acknowledge that.

I'm actually really lost with what to think about him at the moment because while he's definitely raw, there are certainly some great attributes there which look fantastic.

I'm not trying to poke fun at the kid, it's actually the opposite.

Really hoping that we can help him fulfill his potential but I think at the moment we're doing him more harm than good.
He's not the finished product, but if Wrighty thinks he can make it, I'm backing him.

He's played 8 games.....8
 

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