Toast Welcome to Hawthorn - Conor Nash - International Rookie

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amofootyfan

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Apr 23, 2010
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Whilst i like the boy, you cant continue to get a game in a senior AFL side with zero kicks for a whole game. Shoey would also straighten us up, as would Ruff. We need to know when we replace th term althlete with the word, footballer.
 

detox

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Nov 26, 2007
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I'll back in our players as much as I can, but at present we just have to face that fact that Nash isn't ready.

Yep, he does some good things at times, but he has a non existent effect on games and just has zero impact. Had a good qtr vs West Coast but then disappeared for the rest of the game.

He has a lot to work with athletically and yep if he finds whats missing, he could be real weapon, but he's just not there right now. He is a liability.
 

PenAndPaperJosh

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Oct 17, 2011
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I'm not too worried about the amount of kicks he has, his handballs are actually quite fantastic. Gets a couple of those out and he gets score assists.
I actually thought he was good in a fair few patches against Collingwood, obviously not a huge output with the ball but his work without it I thought was good
 

Bumps"N"Grins

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With Nash? You don't need to wonder, everyone can bloody see it. It's just not what most people in the board want him to offer.

1. He doesn't get outmarked
2. He applies pressure
3. He has a good endurance base
4. He offers chaos
5. He gets involved in scores

6th for KPPs Average Goal Assists
5th for KPPs Average Ground Ball Gets F50
6th for KPPs Average Pressure Acts
4th for KPPs Tackles F50
9th for KPPs Tackles Overall

He's also thereabouts for spoils and 1%ers.
You use KPP stats/data to bench mark, he is not.

This is the part of the perception problem he isn't a KPP in the true sense.

He is probably more of a reflection of where we now sit as a team. We should ask where he would fit into teams 2010-2015 and ask if we are trending in the right direction.

Would also like it known that I'm not on here hating as some would like to paint it, just fence sitting.

Sorry Mr Premiership made the KPP point previous.
 
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rogiebear93

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May 17, 2017
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You use KPP stats/data to bench mark, he is not.

This is the part of the perception problem he isn't a KPP in the true sense.

He is probably more of a reflection of where we now sit as a team. We should ask where he would fit into teams 2010-2015 and ask if we are trending in the right direction.

Would also like it known that I'm not on here hating as some would like to paint it, just fence sitting.

Sorry Mr Premiership made the KPP point previous.
Agree
so lets compare his impact at a small forward, not a KPP
Okay, name me the small forwards who are able to keep intercepting talls out of the game?

You can't compare him to a small because he isn't a small forward. He's a defensive forward, and insofar as players of his size go, he's competing well on the level that he would need to as a defensive forward.

Keeping in mind that he's - what, 20? Seems fair to compare him to people of a similar age bracket.

You know those stats that I brought up comparing him to other key forwards? It's also important to keep in mind that he's the youngest amongst those rankings by at least three years for the majority of them.

If there was a way to bring up a comparison piece for 20 year old forwards of all sizes, small or tall, I reckon he'd still be top 5-10 in most of the metrics.

It's frustrating that I have to defend him against all this when it's obvious by how we play with him in the side that we're better, and that he was brought back in almost immediately after becoming appropriately fit to come back.
 

MrPremiership

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Nov 18, 2013
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Okay, name me the small forwards who are able to keep intercepting talls out of the game?

You can't compare him to a small because he isn't a small forward. He's a defensive forward, and insofar as players of his size go, he's competing well on the level that he would need to as a defensive forward.

Keeping in mind that he's - what, 20? Seems fair to compare him to people of a similar age bracket.

You know those stats that I brought up comparing him to other key forwards? It's also important to keep in mind that he's the youngest amongst those rankings by at least three years for the majority of them.

If there was a way to bring up a comparison piece for 20 year old forwards of all sizes, small or tall, I reckon he'd still be top 5-10 in most of the metrics.

It's frustrating that I have to defend him against all this when it's obvious by how we play with him in the side that we're better, and that he was brought back in almost immediately after becoming appropriately fit to come back.
Why are you bringing his age into it? Of course he's young and going to develop, but you brought up the stats.

You're comparing his small forward work against KPPs which is pointless. He does get outmarked and he's often is the wrong spot and not impacting the contest. You can't get outmarked when you're 50m away from the ball.

I'm a Nash fan and he's had 2 good weeks, but your stats are pointless
 

rogiebear93

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Why are you bringing his age into it? Of course he's young and going to develop, but you brought up the stats.

You're comparing his small forward work against KPPs which is pointless. He does get outmarked and he's often is the wrong spot and not impacting the contest. You can't get outmarked when you're 50m away from the ball.

I'm a Nash fan and he's had 2 good weeks, but your stats are pointless
I did bring up the stats as they relate to every other 198cm forward, but you're insisting he shouldn't be compared to talls because he's defensive - so he must be compared to smalls. That's hardly fair.

I can't be bothered with this.
 

lethalselbow

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Aug 31, 2006
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Whilst i like the boy, you cant continue to get a game in a senior AFL side with zero kicks for a whole game. Shoey would also straighten us up, as would Ruff. We need to know when we replace th term althlete with the word, footballer.
Why put games into guys who are retiring? Only farewell games, imo.
 

rei154

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Jun 13, 2019
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Whether or not people like Nash, Clarko has said a few times he's a part of our future plans.
Getting game time into him at the AFL level as opposed to the VFL level is developing his ability to take on bigger and stronger bodies- at 20 and just learning the game having him do the same thing at a VFL level could hinder his development as it'd mean taking on lesser quality opponents as to what we expect him to (a factor that's more important as he doesn't have the history with the sport).
His work as a defensive forward is solid, and it's clear other teams don't quite know how to deal with him due to his size/athleticism which helps free up Lewis and helps to break apart the opponents defense. He's not going to be kicking bags of five or six anytime soon, but he's already playing the important link in four or five goals a game- if you look at the Collingwood game that's a large percentage of our scores that he helps out in.
On friday he had five tackles. The dude is 197cm and nearly 100kg, if you're a defender and you have a mobile giant on you, those tackles hurt like crazy and he's only going to do them more and more as time goes on.
Both him and Glass look good to me, but I get the feeling Nash is going to be something special.
 

Milkshaker

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Is Nash playing solely as a KP Defensive Forward, a new thing? Can we have a player in the side that is super quick, effective at spoiling players the ilk of McGovern, Sicily, Luke Ryan?

Personally I would prefer a player that can out mark these types of defender instead. We don't have any atm.
 

Brant

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Conor Nash's two biggest attributes are his athleticism and his smarts. If, or perhaps when, team structure allows I would play the bloke on the wing and let him run around. I think it would allow him to get more involved and give him greater insight into how to play the game. He looks every bit an elite athlete and I feel that he is one of the key pieces to the puzzle. It would be a very big achievement for the club and of course, for the player.
Isn’t a reliable enough mark to play on the wing at this stage. He would have the legs & tank to get out into space, but if he’s dropping marks then he turns attack into contest or maybe a turnover - that’s not what we want on the wing.

Further, he’s not yet reliable enough with contested possessions. He tackles well, but I’m not sure he can hold the ball up well enough to prevent his opponent getting a disposal away etc.

Definitely give it a try in Pre-Season Games next year & see how he goes or maybe if he goes back to BHH, but I’d not be doing it in the 1sts without a consistent showing that he’s got the game for it (I know he has the attributes for it, but putting it together is very different).
 

tommyk72

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Apr 10, 2007
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Is Nash playing solely as a KP Defensive Forward, a new thing? Can we have a player in the side that is super quick, effective at spoiling players the ilk of McGovern, Sicily, Luke Ryan?

Personally I would prefer a player that can out mark these types of defender instead. We don't have any atm.
This is exactly the type of player that our game plan calls out for. I'm surprised that people don't actually see this more.

Remember all those games we lost to Geelong where we bombed it long and intercept marks were taken again and again. Same thing with Rance at Richmond, and the others you mention above. The game plan is to get it in there, then lock it in there. One of the biggest failings occurs when the ball just bounces back out again due to an intercept mark.

Nash helps to limit this, whilst also playing the pressure forward role (note that Poppy barely flies for marks any more). It's invaluable to the team structure and provides a lot more opportunities to Breust/Poppy/Hanrahan/Gunston at ground level. He's playing that part of the role pretty much perfectly.

Don't get me wrong, love to see him take more marks and kick more goals and get more kicks, but I think he's hitting his KPIs if he keeps up with 5 tackles a week.

That being said, the focus is split between team performance and his development. If Clarko sees it better for the long term he'll go back to BHFC and get some more of the ball and focus on possessions and disposals. But right now he's clearly playing a role and learning along the way.
 

rogiebear93

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May 17, 2017
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Is Nash playing solely as a KP Defensive Forward, a new thing? Can we have a player in the side that is super quick, effective at spoiling players the ilk of McGovern, Sicily, Luke Ryan?

Personally I would prefer a player that can out mark these types of defender instead. We don't have any atm.
And I want a solid gold toilet.

With the way that those defenders are dominating, very few clubs have those players.

I'll settle for a 20 year old who gets to the right spots and makes us a better team even when he isn't taking marks.

People don't realise, but we did this with Roughy for a very long period of time. Rough would cede the marking contest in a lot of instances and instead treat the marking contest like a ruck contest and guide the ball down by taps. It helped our small forwards dominate and be lethal, as they could rove off the pack knowing that Rough would guide the ball to them if the ball was there to be guided.

Riewoldt did this for Richmond across 2017 and 2018 too; Richmond started dominating, and again it was off the back of a fleet of smalls that were feeding from Riewoldt taking a more secondary and team first role than he ever had before. He still took the marks if they were there, but just as often he was guiding the ball to his feet.

No stats for doing this, no goal assist so it's hard to quantify, but if you watch old footage it's exactly what happened.

Great forward lines don't necessarily have a bloke taking contested mark after contested mark, but what they do definitely have in common are blokes who can make a contest and a fleet of skilled ground ball players that mop up the scraps and keep the ball in.
 

Milkshaker

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And I want a solid gold toilet.

With the way that those defenders are dominating, very few clubs have those players.

I'll settle for a 20 year old who gets to the right spots and makes us a better team even when he isn't taking marks.

People don't realise, but we did this with Roughy for a very long period of time. Rough would cede the marking contest in a lot of instances and instead treat the marking contest like a ruck contest and guide the ball down by taps. It helped our small forwards dominate and be lethal, as they could rove off the pack knowing that Rough would guide the ball to them if the ball was there to be guided.

Riewoldt did this for Richmond across 2017 and 2018 too; Richmond started dominating, and again it was off the back of a fleet of smalls that were feeding from Riewoldt taking a more secondary and team first role than he ever had before. He still took the marks if they were there, but just as often he was guiding the ball to his feet.

No stats for doing this, no goal assist so it's hard to quantify, but if you watch old footage it's exactly what happened.

Great forward lines don't necessarily have a bloke taking contested mark after contested mark, but what they do definitely have in common are blokes who can make a contest and a fleet of skilled ground ball players that mop up the scraps and keep the ball in.
That was the point I was trying to make. Not sure I have seen a defensive KPF forward tried before and why would you want a solid gold toilet?
 
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