Toast Welcome to Hawthorn - Conor Nash - International Rookie

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StalkingHawk

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I see him doing a good job in the FWD line.

I wonder if he could be more tho?

I wonder if he could be a ruckman?

Incredibly athletic
Tall
Good skills by hand
Very fast
Tackles hard
Wins contests
....

Something there I reckon!



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B&GBlood

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Clarko likes players with something exceptional to their make up be it a skill (often kicking) or a physical gift. Having such a trait allows the player to be better than his opponent at something, these types of players are the chocolate and strawberry amoungst the vanilla I read about on this forum so ofter when canning a player.
Look at Nash's advantages,
he is as quick or quicker than most he will play on,
he is as tall or taller than most he will play on,
At the moment he is much quicker than anyone of similar height.
his hands are quick and sure below his knees
he is strong and can tackle hard
he is very intelligent (read in here he is preparing to study medicine when sport is done)
He needs to improve his marking and kicking at goal, his field kicking is ok.

He is still learning the game and how it is played, atm Clarko is giving him a job he can do with his skill set and natural abilities and even now he provides a wonderfull point of difference that will be causing head aches.
By denying the key intercept players the chance to mark the ball he messes with their attack plans and best of all he is quick to move from aerial defence to ground attack.
Clarko knows he has a monster here and is trying to fasttrack his learning while still being a special addition to the team.
If he can gain the marking and kicking skills to become a KPP, his advantages will be in the same zone as Buddy; bigger, stronger, faster. Which defender goes to him? Even now I would back him to beat most the games tall defenders with the ball on the ground. We have a ripper and I am enjoying the ride.

Someone said he sounds like a winger, I reckon he could be a ruckrover, if his aerobic capacity is any good.
He has a lot of learning to to before he can do that though.
 

Simon Crawshay

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Still doesnt impact the game often enough for my liking but willing to give him the rest of the season in the seniors to see how much he can improve.
 

rogiebear93

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Someone said he sounds like a winger, I reckon he could be a ruckrover, if his aerobic capacity is any good.
He has a lot of learning to to before he can do that though.
There's something to this, he's very quick and intelligent with his ball use by hand. He could well make a good impact midfielder that spreads hard.
 

SuperSic

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There's something to this, he's very quick and intelligent with his ball use by hand. He could well make a good impact midfielder that spreads hard.
He may even become one of those forwards that rolls through the midfield to give a chop-out to the full time mids. His big frame and speed could be useful at stoppages to block/clear path for other mids.
 

B&GBlood

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Still doesnt impact the game often enough for my liking but willing to give him the rest of the season in the seniors to see how much he can improve.
Every time he stops the intercept mark he is impacting the game and creating a scoring opportunity, this is how we will climb back to the top of the ladder. Clarko is building a team that will out mark the opposition or at worst always force a contest.
 

Simon Crawshay

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Every time he stops the intercept mark he is impacting the game and creating a scoring opportunity, this is how we will climb back to the top of the ladder. Clarko is building a team that will out mark the opposition or at worst always force a contest.
I understand the rational behind preventing the intercept mark but this is a low bar to set for a forward.
Much rather have the defenders actually getting outmarked by a superior player who can kick accurately for goal.
I think Nash woyld be better suited to a wing / high half forward role where he can use his pace. He will never (in my opinion) be a potent goal scoring threat in the forward line durle to his lack of marking ability and inaccurate goal kicking.
 

rei154

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I understand the rational behind preventing the intercept mark but this is a low bar to set for a forward.
Much rather have the defenders actually getting outmarked by a superior player who can kick accurately for goal.
I think Nash woyld be better suited to a wing / high half forward role where he can use his pace. He will never (in my opinion) be a potent goal scoring threat in the forward line durle to his lack of marking ability and inaccurate goal kicking.
That's a heavy knock on a 21 year old- especially one who's learning his kicking craft. Currently he's doing everything that's asked of him by the coaches, at least to a level acceptable enough to keep him in the team.
Every good offense has something that makes them unique; having someone who can nullify intercepting defenders is massive, and incredibly beneficial considering we pride ourselves on having strong small forwards.
 

tommyk72

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I understand the rational behind preventing the intercept mark but this is a low bar to set for a forward.
Much rather have the defenders actually getting outmarked by a superior player
who can kick accurately for goal.
I think Nash woyld be better suited to a wing / high half forward role where he can use his pace. He will never (in my opinion) be a potent goal scoring threat in the forward line durle to his lack of marking ability and inaccurate goal kicking.
Unfortunately, if the bolded part was so easy, we wouldn't have spent the last few years kicking it to people like Taylor and Rance and watching it go back the other way. I think we survived in the past off weight of ball and the fact we had such high quality (S Mitchell, Hill) delivering it into our forward line. Very, very few forwards were outmarking their players when the high ball came in (barring Cyril and Poppy high flying marks!)

Interestingly, on the goal kicking front, Nash did pretty well compared to all our other forwards last week.
 

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B&GBlood

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I understand the rational behind preventing the intercept mark but this is a low bar to set for a forward.
Much rather have the defenders actually getting outmarked by a superior player who can kick accurately for goal.
I think Nash woyld be better suited to a wing / high half forward role where he can use his pace. He will never (in my opinion) be a potent goal scoring threat in the forward line durle to his lack of marking ability and inaccurate goal kicking.
Yes it is a low expectation but that is what Clarko calls a role player, it is how we operate, we play the percentages.
The high ball forward is not ideal for the forwards but it has "hang-time" that allows everyone to assume their defensive positions if the forwards can't make something of it.
Statistically it is less likely a forward will mark the ball than it be spoiled, given the amount of blocking going on it is probably more likely a defender intercepts a kick more than a forward marks it. Even the very best forwards only take a small percentage of the contests they are involved in so it makes sense to control the game by neutralising the mark and hopefully putting it to advantage of the smalls.
We do this when we cannot get it in fast or over the back (Mitch and TO) might change this if they keep up their recent form.
 

Alite

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I see him doing a good job in the FWD line.

I wonder if he could be more tho?

I wonder if he could be a ruckman?

Incredibly athletic
Tall
Good skills by hand
Very fast
Tackles hard
Wins contests
....

Something there I reckon!



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Ruck
Interesting thought. One I had not considered.
He is a very good handballer: he usually puts people into space.
He rarely gets a free against showing he is smart.
He is a great tackler. Always goes low. Would probably lay 7+ a game if in the ruck.

At 197cm he has the height to be a relief ruckman. I am also sure he can jump over most people (speed of leg generally = power to jump).
He Lacks the ruck craft but Aliir did OK in the role.

It would be funny if our pressure forward was also our relief ruckman. That would be a 1st.

I agree that there is something there.

In concept, Connor could play any position on the field. In reality, he needs to continue to learn the games skills (read: kicking) and patterns. That said,
Damn me but he is the personification of potential.
 
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Brant

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I understand the rational behind preventing the intercept mark but this is a low bar to set for a forward.
Much rather have the defenders actually getting outmarked by a superior player who can kick accurately for goal.
I think Nash woyld be better suited to a wing / high half forward role where he can use his pace. He will never (in my opinion) be a potent goal scoring threat in the forward line durle to his lack of marking ability and inaccurate goal kicking.
I'm not disagreeing with this bit, but his game vs Geelong was pretty indicative of how he can contribute to a win in a different way.

Harry Taylor has dominated our forwardline (re: intercept marks) for close to (if not) a decade.
Blicavs & Stewart (in particular) are also quite adept at intercept marking.

Now it'd definitely be sweet to have intercept marking players out-played by a dominant forward; but what does that cost? Who can do it? Tom Lynch? Jeremy Cameron? Probs Jack Darling etc.

So it's gonna cost close enough to a $1m to beat these defenders on their merits. Or, it can cost a Cat B Rookie Spot + Minimum Wage just to disrupt their day & fu** up their defensive rebound.

Yeh, preventing the intercept mark is a relatively poor-man's way to measure a forward; but it can also be effective in achieving an objective.
 

rogiebear93

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I'm not disagreeing with this bit, but his game vs Geelong was pretty indicative of how he can contribute to a win in a different way.

Harry Taylor has dominated our forwardline (re: intercept marks) for close to (if not) a decade.
Blicavs & Stewart (in particular) are also quite adept at intercept marking.

Now it'd definitely be sweet to have intercept marking players out-played by a dominant forward; but what does that cost? Who can do it? Tom Lynch? Jeremy Cameron? Probs Jack Darling etc.

So it's gonna cost close enough to a $1m to beat these defenders on their merits. Or, it can cost a Cat B Rookie Spot + Minimum Wage just to disrupt their day & fu** up their defensive rebound.

Yeh, preventing the intercept mark is a relatively poor-man's way to measure a forward; but it can also be effective in achieving an objective.
Exactly. If he can start with this aspect to his game as a youngster and develop the ability to hurt over time, he's worth his weight in gold.
 

Jables

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I feel his likelihood of making it long term is still pretty low, but he's worth the risk.
I'm not disagreeing with this bit, but his game vs Geelong was pretty indicative of how he can contribute to a win in a different way.

Harry Taylor has dominated our forwardline (re: intercept marks) for close to (if not) a decade.
Blicavs & Stewart (in particular) are also quite adept at intercept marking.

Now it'd definitely be sweet to have intercept marking players out-played by a dominant forward; but what does that cost? Who can do it? Tom Lynch? Jeremy Cameron? Probs Jack Darling etc.

So it's gonna cost close enough to a $1m to beat these defenders on their merits. Or, it can cost a Cat B Rookie Spot + Minimum Wage just to disrupt their day & fu** up their defensive rebound.

Yeh, preventing the intercept mark is a relatively poor-man's way to measure a forward; but it can also be effective in achieving an objective.
Never actually rated Taylor against us in particular. Pretty poor in all 4 or 5 finals he's played against us.
 

Simon Crawshay

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I'm not disagreeing with this bit, but his game vs Geelong was pretty indicative of how he can contribute to a win in a different way.

Harry Taylor has dominated our forwardline (re: intercept marks) for close to (if not) a decade.
Blicavs & Stewart (in particular) are also quite adept at intercept marking.

Now it'd definitely be sweet to have intercept marking players out-played by a dominant forward; but what does that cost? Who can do it? Tom Lynch? Jeremy Cameron? Probs Jack Darling etc.

So it's gonna cost close enough to a $1m to beat these defenders on their merits. Or, it can cost a Cat B Rookie Spot + Minimum Wage just to disrupt their day & fu** up their defensive rebound.

Yeh, preventing the intercept mark is a relatively poor-man's way to measure a forward; but it can also be effective in achieving an objective.
You make some good points and its true that Geelong have historically towled us up with their intercept marking in the backline.

I still maintain though that he needs to bump his disposals into the double figures and try to grab at least a couple of marks a game to make it longer term.

But time will tell either way!
 

Judd2Sewell

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I'm not disagreeing with this bit, but his game vs Geelong was pretty indicative of how he can contribute to a win in a different way.

Harry Taylor has dominated our forwardline (re: intercept marks) for close to (if not) a decade.
Blicavs & Stewart (in particular) are also quite adept at intercept marking.

Now it'd definitely be sweet to have intercept marking players out-played by a dominant forward; but what does that cost? Who can do it? Tom Lynch? Jeremy Cameron? Probs Jack Darling etc.

So it's gonna cost close enough to a $1m to beat these defenders on their merits. Or, it can cost a Cat B Rookie Spot + Minimum Wage just to disrupt their day & fu** up their defensive rebound.

Yeh, preventing the intercept mark is a relatively poor-man's way to measure a forward; but it can also be effective in achieving an objective.
I've watched that Geelong game three times now and Nash didn't particularly bother Taylor. He got out marked by Kolo (poor kick mind you) and gave away a free to Taylor in a contest.

Taylor had dominated us in the past for years, but he's essentially done now. Look at how Blicavs played, playing the Taylor role of yesteryear - 18 touches, 9 marks and affected multiple contests coming off his man or zoning off.

At the end of the day we can't afford to play a forward that averages 8 touches and half a goal a game in a side that has struggled to kick 10 goals a game all year.

He's not ready and just isn't up to it at the moment.
 

Collins-Langford-Ayres

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I understand the rational behind preventing the intercept mark but this is a low bar to set for a forward.
Much rather have the defenders actually getting outmarked by a superior player who can kick accurately for goal.
I think Nash woyld be better suited to a wing / high half forward role where he can use his pace. He will never (in my opinion) be a potent goal scoring threat in the forward line durle to his lack of marking ability and inaccurate goal kicking.
I just don't see his kicking being anywhere near of enough quality to play as a wingman though.

He also does not get into positions enough to get enough of the pill to be a wingman.

Would rather see him continue to work on his craft at VFL level and give guys like Ross and Walker a game at AFL level, so they get a taste of the big time.
 
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