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DGB did OK when covering Utilities, and he was massively outsized in those contests, not to mention in the games played column.

But as above - wasn't he on that short blonde dude?

2nd year tall doesn't have the body mass of seasoned players who have won all Australians in Gibbous and Lever? Hold the phone!

Athletically he compared to Rance favorably during testing. That was his draft year comparison because he does have that superior athletic traits to go with his natural ability to read the game and mark the ball.

I think you're overestimating the importance of him being 4cm taller. Sicily regularly beats players 10cm or more taller than him.

But mainly: DGB is at the end of his second year. He played, what 5 games last year?

Going after our own players a little early on this board of late?

Sicily is a freak.

Gibcus and Lever have springs in their legs, i didn't comment on their weight. Gibcus is a first year player.

Going after our own players? I don't think chewing the fat and discussing footy is "going after players". I understand some people see Bigfooty as a place for celebration of their team and that's okay, but they need to also allow there to be room to for people who want to talk footy and both sides of any issue or subject.
 
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toomanysquibs

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I understand some people see Bigfooty as a place for celebration of their team and that's okay, but they need to also allow there to be room to for people who want to talk footy and both sides of any issue or subject.

There's being objective though, and then potting a second year player when there's nothing to suggest that it's warranted.

Unless you're complaint is that his build is too lean for your tastes. That's not really saying anything about his future or ability now though.

It's pretty plain to see that DGB is going to make the grade, and then push on to more again.

Were you potting Luke Hodge at the end of his second year, just because he went at number 1.?
 

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Does James Sicily struggle as a Key tall?

Would he have struggled as a key tall in his second year?
Sicily is a freak.

Yes, on some days, very rarely, Sicily does struggle with a tall player. That's why the Hawks often have three defenders flying at the same time to kill high balls. We don't have any real height in our backline.

If Sicily was starting his career this year, I would be a little worried about him being the main man. He hasn't had to play in an era with the new generation of players. The King twins 202cms and Darcy 2010cm, are the start of a wave. Have you seen the size of teenagers these days!
 

KermitJagger

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Sicily is a freak.

Yes, on some days, very rarely, Sicily does struggle with a tall player. That's why the Hawks often have three defenders flying at the same time to kill high balls. We don't have any real height in our backline.

If Sicily was starting his career this year, I would be a little worried about him being the main man. He hasn't had to play in an era with the new generation of players. The King twins 202cms and Darcy 2010cm, are the start of a wave. Have you seen the size of teenagers these days!
2010cm?!?!!??! This enormous man will devour us all!

Q0OCJeDbnvKaqp9RWXJRk8GUFD1MZ0GHrap4Wbgt5Y0.jpg
 

Luv_our_club

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Same height as Brian Lake...

Lake was a beast in the gym - a preternaturally strong man. Like `McGovin from WC. That's what I hope Jeka can be... similar to McCartin in Sydney. I don't think height is the only way to win a contest.

DGB can put on weight, and get stronger, but will his weight or strength ever give him an edge over his equally trained up opponent? If we want him to be Lake we are kidding ourselves.

My concerns with DGB from the very start when he was drafted was trying to see where he excelled. Kicking? no. Mass/Strength. No. Speed. No. Height? No. Endurance? no. IQ maybe? And I was worried if he ever did put on weight it would drag down his level of athleticism (can happen). The edge DGB can have, i hope, is his smarts and reading of the play. But it's something you can't see with your eyes from him yet, except in glimpses. He isn't exactly smooth in what he does... he is more a bit clumsy on the field, crashing into his teammates and tripping over etc. When Sicily was playing at Box Hill he glided over the park, delivered bullets, and snapped goals. He just oozed class. DGB still has time to show that IQ because it is only his 2nd year and he entered AFL with some physical deficiencies to work on.
 

toomanysquibs

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My concerns with DGB from the very start when he was drafted was trying to see where he excelled. Kicking? no. Mass/Strength. No. Speed. No. Height? No. Endurance? no. IQ maybe? And I was worried if he ever did put on weight it would drag down his level of athleticism (can happen). The edge DGB can have, i hope, is his smarts and reading of the play. But it's something you can't see with your eyes from him yet, except in glimpses. He isn't exactly smooth in what he does... he is more a bit clumsy on the field, crashing into his teammates and tripping over etc. When Sicily was playing at Box Hill he glided over the park, delivered bullets, and snapped goals. He just oozed class. DGB still has time to show that IQ because it is only his 2nd year and he entered AFL with some physical deficiencies to work on.



What are you talking about, DGB has elite athleticism.

Check his draft rating and the player comparisons, then take a look at his work and you'll see enough of it to realise it's already there.

I'd ask again too, did Brian Lake star during his second year?

I wonder how DGB stacks up to him at the same stage of their careers....
 

Simon_Nesbit

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This isn't to pot DGB (I've done enough of that elsewhere) - but elite athleticism?

He's not slow, but hasn't shown a regular turn of speed on field.
He hasn't shown much of a leap - certainly not elite to overcome his lack of height on 200+ monsters.
He's outbodied by virtually all AFL players - expected of a draftee - but his build is so sleight I fear he won't ever put on significant size to handle a KPF.
He's shorter than virtually every KPF drafted - combined with his lack of leap, I struggle to see how he can be forecast to become a KPD.
He is significantly lacking in stamina, and struggles to run out games, requiring additional bench management.

If anything, his physical size and athleticism is what will hold him back.

3rd Tall interceptor is likely to be his best role - maybe replacing Sicily as the undersized 2nd KPD. Unlike Sicily, he doesn't have another attribute (long kicking) to make up for his physical shortcomings.

I don't question DGB's football ability - more the decision to spend such a high draft pick on a player that will potentially never be able to play in a KPP role due to his physical limitations. It's a big price to pay for a defensive HBF.
 

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Jazzfan

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What are you talking about, DGB has elite athleticism.

Check his draft rating and the player comparisons, then take a look at his work and you'll see enough of it to realise it's already there.

I'd ask again too, did Brian Lake star during his second year?

I wonder how DGB stacks up to him at the same stage of their careers....

I read his draft profile again, it talks about being an intercepting third tall. This is how he played his junior and WAFL footy.

Sam also stated this is currently how he sees DGB, and that they've been spending the year educating him to be more defensively accountable.

Personally, I don't think he's ever going to be a Brian Lake key defender. Best case I'm hoping he can become a Dylan Grimes or Jake Leaver. Worst case Stratts, who was a gun but you'd want more from pick 6 considering Elijah Hollands went pick 7.

It is an interesting conversation how desperate we are for a third tall defender, given we obviously have Sicily and all of Scrimshaw and particularly Day and CJ who are so good and courageous in the air... CJ really has looked like Gibbo at times with his speed and agility to impact contests in the air, long way to go but as Gibbo was a superstar.

By far DGB's best game so far was matched up on Cody Weightman, but I still think there's a spot for Morris locking down the opposition's dangerous small forward in 2023 freeing up Hardwick.

Personally I'd love a backline looking something like Blanck, Logue and Sicily. Sicily is an outright superstar, but a bit like Gibbo before we brought in Frawley, we're asking so much of Sicily to take a key forward each week. Ideally we get to the point he can play his natural third tall, maybe pinch hit in the middle too if he's getting sat on or we need a spark.

*if rumours of our interest in pick 2 plus something for DGB and 6 are accurate, you can confidently say the club does not feel he's going to be a KPD.
 
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darthmann

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I read his draft profile again, at it talks about being an intercepting third tall.

Sam also stated this is currently how he sees DGB.

Personally, I don't think he's ever going to be a Brian Lake key defender. Best case I'm hoping he can become a Dylan Grimes or Jake Leaver. Worst case Stratts, who was a gun but you'd want more from pick 6.

It is an interesting conversation how desperate we are for a third tall defender, given we obviously have Sicily and all of Scrimshaw and particularly Day and CJ who are so good and courageous in the air... CJ really has looked like Gibbo at times with his speed and agility to impact contests in the air, long way to go but as Gibbo was a superstar.

By far DGB's best game so far was matched up on Cody Weightman, but I still think there's a spot for Morris locking down the opposition's dangerous small forward in 2022 freeing up Hardwick.

Personally I'd love a backline looking something like Blanck, Logue and Sicily. Sicily is an outright superstar, but a bit like Gibbo before we brought in Frawley, we're asking so much of Sicily to take a key forward each week. Ideally we get to the point he can play his natural third tall, maybe pinch hit in the middle too if he's getting sat on or we need a spark.
Stratts with more of an offensive game is an AA*-level defender. AKA a Hardwick-level defender but with more versatility. Considering how much of a lottery even high-end draft picks are I'd be more than happy with that from pick 6.

*Who gives a * if they're actually picked in that team though...
 

Bardo State

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Tom Barrass is 194cm. Steven May is 193cm. Sam Taylor is 196cm. Weitering is 196cm. That's the AA squad key defenders this year.

DGB is 195cm. He's bang in the range. It's fair to wonder if key forward height is growing at such a rate that teams will need a dedicated 200cm defender type, but it's a real reach to think this will be a limiting factor for DGB. His mobility is good. His leap is good. His intensity is good. His disposal is solid. He came in as a twig. Strength comes with time. His ceiling will be limited by his ability to make good decisions quickly and consistently.
 

Ned Ryerson

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Tom Barrass is 194cm. Steven May is 193cm. Sam Taylor is 196cm. Weitering is 196cm. That's the AA squad key defenders this year.

DGB is 195cm. He's bang in the range. It's fair to wonder if key forward height is growing at such a rate that teams will need a dedicated 200cm defender type, but it's a real reach to think this will be a limiting factor for DGB. His mobility is good. His leap is good. His intensity is good. His disposal is solid. He came in as a twig. Strength comes with time. His ceiling will be limited by his ability to make good decisions quickly and consistently.

But he's not 220cm tall so how can we expect that he can defend modern AFL forwards who will all be 215cm minimum!
 

James Buchanan

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But he's not 220cm tall so how can we expect that he can defend modern AFL forwards who will all be 215cm minimum!
Lets be real here... he's not 197cm+ and that 2cm difference means that he's completely ineffective. Everyone knows that someone 2cm taller than you has an unassailable advantage in marking contests.
 

Tomohawks

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I was at the Carlton game earlier this year and sat behind the goals where he was everywhere in a second half quarter (can't recall if it was the third or fourth). Intercept marking, ground ball gets, linking up from deep and hitting long targets. He read the ball as advertised. Even though we lost the game I came away salivating about what he can become. He showed me that day that he has what it takes to become a seriously good player. Once he builds a stronger body and gains consistent confidence like he showed that day he'll be our Jake Lever.
 

toomanysquibs

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This isn't to pot DGB (I've done enough of that elsewhere) - but elite athleticism?


Hmmm. "Having tested as either above average or elite in preseason speed, agility and running vertical jump drills, Denver is incredibly athletic for his size, reads the play well and is a powerful intercept marker."

https://www.swandistrictsfc.com.au/news/19019/denver-grainger-barras-–-a-swans-star-in-the-making

Or

Denver Grainger-Barras

That quote wasn't exactly the only one that says just that.

It was his athletic marking, closing speed etc. that caught the attention of talent scouts.

I mean the consensus comparison was Alex Rance or Grimes.

Both of those guys are/were super athletic.

DGB is playing negating roles on bigger bodied players this year. He's also put on a significant (for him) amount of size that has likely left him less mobile for now. He's also less reckless than he was at times last year, and is playing with a little more self preservation (to my eye at least).

If you're going to knock him, it's got to be on his size. Will he fill out like other slim guys do (Buddy, Rance etc.) or will he stay around where he's at now? That's the only serious knock on him imo. Looks like a boy playing against men next to guys like Curnow, Naughton, Lynch etc.

Plenty of time to sort that out though.
 
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Jazzfan

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Hmmm. "Having tested as either above average or elite in preseason speed, agility and running vertical jump drills, Denver is incredibly athletic for his size, reads the play well and is a powerful intercept marker."

https://www.swandistrictsfc.com.au/news/19019/denver-grainger-barras-–-a-swans-star-in-the-making

Or

Denver Grainger-Barras

That quote wasn't exactly the only one that says just that.

It was his athletic marking, closing speed etc. that caught the attention of talent scouts.

I mean the consensus comparison was Alex Rance or Grimes.

Both of those guys are/were super athletic.

DGB is playing negating roles on bigger bodied players this year. He's also put on a significant (for him) amount of size that has likely left him less mobile for now. He's also less reckless than he was at times last year, and is playing with a little more self preservation (to my eye at least).

If you're going to knock him, it's got to be on his size. Will he fill out like other slim guys do (Buddy, Rance etc.) or will he stay around where he's at now? That's the only serious knock on him imo. Looks like a boy playing against men next to guys like Curnow, Naughton, Lynch etc.

Plenty of time to sort that out though.

He's avoided those big key forwards you've mentioned this year mate.

He's mostly had either the medium/small types, Weightman, Cumberland, Ainsworth recently, or a resting ruckman like Soldo earlier in the year and Miller rd 22 (alongside Cumberland and ultimately Lynch).

Not posting about if he will or want make it, just saying he hasn't been ragged dolled by big forwards this year because other than a brief stint on Lynch, he hasn't stood them really.

Hopefully he has a massive pre-season.
 

KermitJagger

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He's avoided those big key forwards you've mentioned this year mate.

He's mostly had either the medium/small types, Weightman, Cumberland, Ainsworth recently, or a resting ruckman like Soldo earlier in the year and Miller rd 22 (alongside Cumberland and ultimately Lynch).

Not posting about if he will or want make it, just saying he hasn't been ragged dolled by big forwards this year because other than a brief stint on Lynch, he hasn't stood them really.
Because he's 20, resting rucks are still big.
 

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