Toast Welcome to Hawthorn, Finn Maginness

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Brishawk

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Think howe was tagging Kelly? Not sure who was on gaff - maybe Phillips? Both didn’t do enough to keep their spot.

Ideally players at box hill would be banging down the door, but how long can you keep underperformers at AFL level and racking up losses before making changes?
Howe tagged Kelly around the ground but not at the centre bounce. Kelly got a goal because no one went with Kelly from the bounce while Howe had to go the ball because it went to his wing. My point is even when tagging, the outcome still require teamwork. Howe was pretty solid for us. A lot better than some. Limited player but goes hard every time and used it pretty well after the first quarter. We kind of need that right now. Just got to hope that Finn can keep improving to the point he forced his s way back in. Got way more upside than several players in our team but just needs time to develop.
 

Strapping Young Lad

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Finn Maginness (21 disposals, 6 marks, 5 tackles)
"He started in a midfield defensive role with a little bit more freedom. He lowered his colours early though so he was moved into defence. Once he found his bearings, he had some strong moments behind the ball as a defender."
 

TheFourPillars

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Finn Maginness (21 disposals, 6 marks, 5 tackles)
"He started in a midfield defensive role with a little bit more freedom. He lowered his colours early though so he was moved into defence. Once he found his bearings, he had some strong moments behind the ball as a defender."
Oh brad sewell here we come 😋😋
 

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chopflop

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You know for all the comparisons... This guy is a real Daniel Jackson type. Big, strong, super athlete with super endurance but had to learn the game and always had limited skill. I think we will likely see a similar trajectory for Finn. Jackson became better as his career wore on and he became accustomed to the football side of football. Won B and F at Richmond by the but was very raw in his first few years in terms of footy IQ
 

darthmann

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You know for all the comparisons... This guy is a real Daniel Jackson type. Big, strong, super athlete with super endurance but had to learn the game and always had limited skill. I think we will likely see a similar trajectory for Finn. Jackson became better as his career wore on and he became accustomed to the football side of football. Won B and F at Richmond by the but was very raw in his first few years in terms of footy IQ
fu** me that is not a name I expected to ever hear mentioned again.
 

burner1

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Feels like may be a bit of a slow burn - but if he’s a midfield bull the strength will take time. We obviously think his football nous needs work. But it’s hard to develop tricks tagging every week. Hopefully a brad Sewell path - look a mile off it, become a good then very good tagger, then start clearly beating most opponents. If Finn can learn to get to the right spots he’ll be handy in a few years as he’s already very strong.

If he’s going to tag he might as well keep getting exposure at afl in between stints at box hill. I’d put him on Sam Walsh. Walsh has a massive tank but is not super quick. He’d torch worpel or howe.
 

Hawk_francais

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Nothing to build up a young player's confidence like teaching them to play in a new position.

If they didn't think Finn could play inside midfield then why the hell did we delist Harry Jones? Our depth in the middle is appalling. Bramble and Saunders our only other options.
 

TheFourPillars

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Nothing to build up a young player's confidence like teaching them to play in a new position.

If they didn't think Finn could play inside midfield then why the hell did we delist Harry Jones? Our depth in the middle is appalling. Bramble and Saunders our only other options.
Harry Jones was average at best and could not stay on the field. Howe who is currently on our list is better than him. Howe may not survive the cull either.
 

Brishawk

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Harry Jones was average at best and could not stay on the field. Howe who is currently on our list is better than him. Howe may not survive the cull either.
They seem intent not to play Howe as an inside mid at AFL level. Not sure why as his best football was played there in 2018. We could use his size but oh well.

Finn needs time but has some good attributes. Look forward to watching his development at whatever level he plays.
 

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CHUBBSS

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Do we have an issue with the mids we draft or the development of mids, the coaching of the mids or all of the above?

it feels like every mid is playing in off positions, hopefully we can see it click for one game this year. If not 50% of the core need to go
 

Wbby

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watching finn today next to mynott was day and night - mynott is undersized and not a bulldozer or overly strong, but he always knows where the ball is going to go. Finn spent a worrying amount of time today watching the ball bounds away from him.
Quite clearly tagging Phillips. Doesn't look good if you gamble on a ball, lose it, and then the opponent you're supposed to be tagging gets the ball on the outside as they are now free.
 

Hawk_francais

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Do we have an issue with the mids we draft or the development of mids, the coaching of the mids or all of the above?

it feels like every mid is playing in off positions, hopefully we can see it click for one game this year. If not 50% of the core need to go
All of the above. We've been beaten at stoppage for most of Clarkson's career. Part of that was by design, we used to rely on other strategies to win (i50 pressure, turnover, precision-kicking). A few years ago Clarkson said publicly that we were becoming more of a contested football side, and T.Mitchell was the poster boy of that new brand. But it has gone south. 2019, 2020 and 2021 we have been bottom two in the comp for both Contested Possessions and Clearances.

I've never understood why, after we missed out on Coniglio, we didn't chase anyone else. There's no way you can keep putting this back on the players. We haven't been good enough in the middle, and the onus has been on the selectors, the coaches and the list management for the past two years to find a new strategy.
 
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toomanysquibs

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We've been beaten at stoppage for most of Clarkson's career. Part of that was by design, we used to rely on other strategies to win (i50 pressure, turnover, precision-kicking).
We haven't been good enough in the middle, and the onus has been on the selectors, the coaches and the list management for the past two years to find a new strategy.
So true, we were probably the only team in the modern era to lose at stoppages in a GF and win a flag (2013).

But when you're whole team is uber talented, tough, super skilled, and drilled to hurt the opposition on every turnover, you can do that. The way the game was played at that time certainly helped as well.

Over the past 4-5 years we've never adapted to the chaos ball, move it forward and attack the contest at all costs game style Richmond brought into vogue.

Our prime movers tried to counter that, but they were run off their feet; were too slow, or just bashed out of the contest.

Now that same plan is evolving, and skilful kicking is part of it, and we just aren't in the picture.

We addressed speed at the draft last year. We need to get speed and size this year if we can (Horne).

But it's been written on here ad nauseam for a long time, we're just too one paced in the middle, and for some reason we've wall-papered over the cracks and remained that way for so long the problem is insurmountable right now.

There are holes in plenty of other places too - not just in the middle (our rucks seem cooked, as great as McEvoy has been during his time with us). We have players on the list who can't even kick the ball to a teammate. We're pretty average at hand balling for some reason too, right across the board, which is really odd.

Hopefully DGB, Reeves, TB and S. Mitchell can join Day, Impey, Scicily, Worpel and potentially a few others in re-building the house from the foundation up. If Lewis and Kosi come up, then we might only be a few years away from being a good team. But we can only become one if we transform the midfield, along with the mentality or strategy that's led us to draft too much dead wood.
 

CHUBBSS

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All of the above. We've been beaten at stoppage for most of Clarkson's career. Part of that was by design, we used to rely on other strategies to win (i50 pressure, turnover, precision-kicking). A few years ago Clarkson said publicly that we were becoming more of a contested football side, and T.Mitchell was the poster boy of that new brand. But it has gone south. 2019, 2020 and 2021 we have been bottom two in the comp for both Contested Possessions and Clearances.

I've never understood why, after we missed out on Coniglio, we didn't chase anyone else. There's no way you can keep putting this back on the players. We haven't been good enough in the middle, and the onus has been on the selectors, the coaches and the list management for the past two years to find a new strategy.
If I was going to defend the list management strategy it would appear as if we are fixing backline, forward line first and leaving mids till last, maybe purely due to development time?

But what may be concerning is we have overvalued Finn and others draft wise compared to what was on offer, we may lack deficiencies of scouts in this area?

I personally think it lies in development and coaching because our drafting normally is fairly sound so why can’t we develop mids? (I am laser beaming Bolton and by extension Clarkson here)

This will probably be discussed for the rest of the year but it’s been the issue all year and for the singular perceived talent we have they can’t work together, this has to stem from the top
 

eldorado

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But what may be concerning is we have overvalued Finn and others draft wise compared to what was on offer, we may lack deficiencies of scouts in this area?
Not sure we overvalued him that much, we matched North's pick 29 bid with a mix of later picks.

So at least one team valued him at pick 29, and we thought he was worth it for 20% less (equating to roughly pick 35)
 

CHUBBSS

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Not sure we overvalued him that much, we matched North's pick 29 bid with a mix of later picks.

So at least one team valued him at pick 29, and we thought he was worth it for 20% less (equating to roughly pick 35)
I still think the issue lies in development and coaching atm but on the above value;

I never take much notice of how another team values a player just if that player was a success or not, meaning if they are not up to playing a game of AFL it’s a bust. After accounting for injuries and any other unforeseen circumstances. Our drafting of midfielders on current history has been sub par but I can’t work out if it’s the drafting or the development and coaching or both.
 

Noel Gallagher

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I still think the issue lies in development and coaching atm but on the above value;

I never take much notice of how another team values a player just if that player was a success or not, meaning if they are not up to playing a game of AFL it’s a bust. After accounting for injuries and any other unforeseen circumstances. Our drafting of midfielders on current history has been sub par but I can’t work out if it’s the drafting or the development and coaching or both.
More drafting IMO - Lovell (174cm) 1st round pick taken a couple of picks before Dunkley was an absolute howler - no-one had Lovell as a first rounder or even second. Hartung 24 over Merrett 26 was another shocker. Hartung slid after after a few recruiters questioned his "hardness" at the ball

JOR is still ahead scratcher as well - probably the most under whelming highlights package for someone initially taken at pick 2 - we gave up pick 18 for him when he showed absolutely nothing in his first two years at GWS

The last decent midfielder we drafted was Jordan Lewis at pick 7, its all been very poor drafting since then...
 

Jazzfan

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More drafting IMO - Lovell (174cm) 1st round pick taken a couple of picks before Dunkley was an absolute howler - no-one had Lovell as a first rounder or even second. Hartung 24 over Merrett 26 was another shocker. Hartung slid after after a few recruiters questioned his "hardness" at the ball

JOR is still ahead scratcher as well - probably the most under whelming highlights package for someone initially taken at pick 2 - we gave up pick 18 for him when he showed absolutely nothing in his first two years at GWS

The last decent midfielder we drafted was Jordan Lewis at pick 7, its all been very poor drafting since then...
Worpel. But I guess he's a half-forward, tagger or full forward these days... carry on.
 

Noel Gallagher

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Worpel. But I guess he's a half-forward, tagger or full forward these days... carry on.
Forgot about Worpel, that was a good pick for 46. We did nail Smith at 16 as well but after his performance in the VFL GF it was a bit of a no brainer. Funny how Geelong passed on him at 15 yet he still ended up there eventually
 

Siri

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If he wasn't a father son, I don't know if he'd even be discussed. Can't see the fascination with him as he's shown nothing at either level. Built like Tarzan, but seems to have an inability to impose himself on a contest, let alone a game. There should be no expectation surrounding him & like any other pick 29, if he does work out it'll be a bonus. Fingers crossed. Seems miles off the descriptions in this thread when he was first drafted. Although CJ's shown that sometimes manure promotes growth, it's not always the case.
 

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