Welcome Welcome to Hawthorn: James Cousins

[KermitJagger]

Top picks are still a bit hit and miss, but surely you agree that you are more likely to get a hit in 1 - 10, than you are 11 - 20, than 21 - 30, etc?

Taking 2003 as your example:

11 Beau Waters - 120 games - Compared to Cooney 250 games
12 Ryan Murphy - 48 games - Compared to Walker 202 games
13 Brent Stanton - 255 games - Compared to Sylvia 163 games
14 Fergus Watts - 6 games - Compared to Ray 209 games
15 Troy Chaplin - 215 games - Compared to McLean 157 games
16 Josh Willoughby - 0 games - Compared to Bradley 117 games
17 Billy Morrison - 0 games - Compared to Tenace 54 games
18 Llane Spaandeman - 3 games - Compared to Clarke 85 games
19 David Mundy - 299 games - Compared to Trotter 7 games
20 Sam Butler - 166 games - Compared to Dunn 8 games

Think the top 10s have it...

I can't find the main board thread where I crunched the numbers, but the gist of them were that top 10 picks will get you a reliably good player, but won't always get you star players. An equal amount of success came from later drafted players who were taken on potential by good sides, or ended up at good sides. This is because bottom sides will go for players that are likely to have an instant impact, and that doesn't always mean that they'll be the best players later in life, just that they're better players at 18 where they could simply be more developed.

I'm not saying that you should forego the idea of top pics always and forever, just that clubs do their research far enough out that they will know that in a certain draft they will have their eyes on a player that they will need top draft picks for. It's worth attacking the draft in a year like 2001, 2004 and in hindsight 2013, but amassing 1st rounders with no consideration to the quality of that draft year means you could have top 10 picks in a year like 2003.

 

[MrPremiership]

Because he will struggle to get a game for us next season once Mitchell returns and we recruit another ready-made midfielder.
The coaches will tell him as much in his end of year review.

We will get some value and he will play more often on a ground much more suited to his abilities.

or we could get injuries again......

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Because he will struggle to get a game for us next season once Mitchell returns and we recruit another ready-made midfielder.
The coaches will tell him as much in his end of year review.

We will get some value and he will play more often on a ground much more suited to his abilities.

I agree. If all goes well and we land a gun then our midfield rotation next season would be:

Jaeger
Mitchell
Big fish
Worpel
Shiels

With other options to go through there too in:

Scully
Wingard
Howe
Henderson (who'd have thought?)
Smith

With the exception of Howe, all of the secondary options can play multiple positions on the field. I'm not sure if Cousins can. But having said that he hasn't had a chance to so he may develop more strings to his bow, or just completely usurp Howe in the pecking order by the end of the season.

 

[Davo23]

or we could get injuries again......

Cousins is playing injured right now.

He’s still going okay.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Because he will struggle to get a game for us next season once Mitchell returns and we recruit another ready-made midfielder.
The coaches will tell him as much in his end of year review.

We will get some value and he will play more often on a ground much more suited to his abilities.

Couldn't disagree more. After flops with Lovell ORourke we find a bloke who is a ball magnet at VFL level and now proven capable at AFL level and he isn't getting a game next year in what is one of the weaker midfields going around. You don't build depth by getting rid of these sort of blokes. Very handy type with plenty of improvement left. Looks to have a great attitude too.

 

[Milkshaker]

Couldn't disagree more. After flops with Lovell ORourke we find a bloke who is a ball magnet at VFL level and now proven capable at AFL level and he isn't getting a game next year in what is one of the weaker midfields going around. You don't build depth by getting rid of these sort of blokes. Very handy type with plenty of improvement left. Looks to have a great attitude too.

Looking very accomplished and composed in front of the big sticks as well.

 

[Jables]

The goal sense he has is intriguing and he's a good tackle. I think expecting him to help o'meara carry the midfield at this point of his career is a bit unfair, the torch isn't being held against Worpel for not doing well at that either (and I love Worpel obviously).

A bit weird the amount of love O'Rourke got in comparison.

 

[lethalselbow]

Because he will struggle to get a game for us next season once Mitchell returns and we recruit another ready-made midfielder.
The coaches will tell him as much in his end of year review.

We will get some value and he will play more often on a ground much more suited to his abilities.

Why would you get rid of a player of his ability when we are completely short of depth in that area? If you get another "ready made" mid and we get another injury to Mitch or them, then we are back where we are now.

Cousins looking to be a pretty handy Hawthorn player.

 

[MrPremiership]

What's his fitness like? He seems to tire in the 2nd half of games and unable to get to contests. That means his disposal numbers and influence is down.

Looks a little slow at times, but always brings effort and tackles. Like that he's kicked a few goals this year too.

 

[Gralin]

What's his fitness like? He seems to tire in the 2nd half of games and unable to get to contests. That means his disposal numbers and influence is down.

Looks a little slow at times, but always brings effort and tackles. Like that he's kicked a few goals this year too.

He said last year the main thing holding him back from playing mid at senior level was his tank, its better this year but he's still a preseason or two away

 

[MrPremiership]

He said last year the main thing holding him back from playing mid at senior level was his tank, its better this year but he's still a preseason or two away

He seems to rack up bigger numbers in VFL, where the game is slower and he can make it to more contests.

Would love to see how effective he can be with a bigger tank. Shows how well Worpel is going in his 2nd season.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

What's his fitness like? He seems to tire in the 2nd half of games and unable to get to contests. That means his disposal numbers and influence is down.

Looks a little slow at times, but always brings effort and tackles. Like that he's kicked a few goals this year too.

Keep in mind he has played with a bung ankle the last 2 weeks.

He will be a loss this week. Pity we just can't get everyone on the park together this season.

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

..... That means his disposal numbers and influence is down.

Looks a little slow at times, but always brings effort and tackles. Like that he's kicked a few goals this year too.

He seems to spend most of the game on a HFF so low numbers are to be expected. His speed or lack thereof is my concern. Fine when he has the footy not so fine when he has not.

Could have easily kicked three last match, he bags them and he is a huge out.

 

[tommyk72]

Would love for him to mirror Worpel’s preseason regime this year. He’s done an amazing job adding to his tank and general aerobic ability.

 

[COKEandCOLA]

I see it differently. Their draft pick is irrelevant now. The JOR experiment confirmed that for me. It’s how they integrate into league footy.

Yep Cuz will be an inside mid. Cool. We need that.

The knock on the kicking and decision making is real. But can improve with time on the ground. And confidence. He can also hit the scoreboard.

There’s a higher ceiling here than ppl think. Again, forget the pick and watch what he’s currently doing. Recruiters go off what they’ve seen and how they think a player will develop. We’re watching the kid develop and have the benefit of hindsight, which they don’t have.

He’s playing like a top 20 pick now, not a rookie. That’s all that matters.

What this guy said

 

[mustang]

Because he will struggle to get a game for us next season once Mitchell returns and we recruit another ready-made midfielder.
The coaches will tell him as much in his end of year review.

We will get some value and he will play more often on a ground much more suited to his abilities.

The Suns would love this type of player hard in and under.

 

[MrPremiership]

Surely a kid from Mansfield would preference staying in Melbourne rather than going to Sydney or Gold Coast

 

[KermitJagger]

Surely a kid from Mansfield would preference staying in Melbourne rather than going to Sydney or Gold Coast

Not sure now, especially since most of the Maroondah Hwy towards Mansfield is an 80k zone with limited passing lanes. Absolute nightmare.

That being said - gee wiz the Murray Bushrangers cover a hell of an area, makes you wonder how they can compete against the metro NAB Challenge sides.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

The Suns would love this type of player hard in and under.

They already have Miles, who most would say is a better player.

 

[KermitJagger]

They already have Miles, who most would say is a better player.

He seems the same player but older

 

[Kuuz]

He seems to rack up bigger numbers in VFL, where the game is slower and he can make it to more contests.

Would love to see how effective he can be with a bigger tank. Shows how well Worpel is going in his 2nd season.

Worps is just nuts. He's been getting good numbers on about 75% game time or less for the season. Can't wait till they both build up their tanks.

 

[4THAWN]

With the unfortunate loss of Jones due to injury, will be interesting to see if they have any games for James Cousins. I like how he plays and wouldn't want to lose him due to a lack of opportunity. Out of contract at the end of the year, would really like to see him extend with Hawthorn.

 

[MrPremiership]

Well, he'll be the number 1 mid at BHH now. He'll have every chance to impress. He's done enough for a new contract, but if someone gets in his ear and offers games and security, then I wouldn't begrudge him taking it.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Well, he'll be the number 1 mid at BHH now. He'll have every chance to impress. He's done enough for a new contract, but if someone gets in his ear and offers games and security, then I wouldn't begrudge him taking it.

That's my concern. Seems a far better player than Mitch Hallahan, who we let got to the Suns for pick 47 and 49. Would not like to lose him yet, given the improvement he has made this year, the depth he provides and the further improvement that may materialise if he can increase his tank. If he's a relaly good trainer and dedicated professional, expect this is exactly the kind of kid the Suns need to add to their list.

 

[cryptor]

Really hope we can keep him. Has shown plenty to suggest he's got what it takes. At worst hopefully we can sign him up and trade him on our terms.